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making isk Mission running v mining so imbalanced.
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Citizen Smif
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2012-03-30 13:34:51 UTC
Nedes Betternaem wrote:


Most forum posters are actually bots as well.


Confirmed.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2012-03-30 13:46:38 UTC
It's a "sandbox" where you can't War Dec the most poweful Alliances without playing billions of ISK per week.

Because then Goonies engage in "meta-game" play to stop that.

That's the new phrase for running like a whiny girl to Daddie CCP and saying "the Bad Man was mean to me! Stop Him!"

CCP had choices to make. They could do what they want, or have a million subs.

They chose to do what they want.

At least they didn't let one man, the Gersh, destroy their game like he destroyed War. So there is that. Not as stupid as Trion.

It's still juvenile.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2012-03-30 13:48:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Shadowsword
Roime wrote:
Level 3s should be balanced so that it's impossible to generate enough isk for a PLEX in a month then. Suicide gankers can keep the mining bot issue from getting out of hand :


If lv3 become unprofitable for a bot, then they become utterly worthless for new players. Let's take your argument and say that a bot runing lv 3 23hours a day for a month can't win enough for a 550M Plex. That means an income caped at less than 800k/hour, and that when you have well fitted ship. Say 600k/hour for the newbie with his T1 cruiser and meta3 mods. That's probably even less than lv2

Quote:
I doubt it would cause mass unsubs. Those who love EVE would adapt, don't worry. And CCP is doing fine financially according to the latest publication on that matter: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/21/eve-online-saw-66m-in-revenue-last-year-mulls-ipo/


CCP isn't only doing EVE, and Dust and WoD aren't income sources yet.

If it was not going to cause mass unsubs, CCP would already have done it. The typical player doesn't love EVE, what he loves is the activities he does in the game. Second, a lot of us have multiple accounts. I have one whose sole purpose is to be an income source that can't be disrupted by wars or 0.0 situation. If lv4 where moved in low-sec, I'd hit the unsub button on that account->less money for CCP. Multiply my case by many thousands. And then add the serious mission-runners.

If the vast majority of Eve's population is concentrated in high-sec, there is a reason.

Bottom line, you absolutely CAN'T force somone who doesn't want to play with the pressure of pvp risk to move into low-sec. The "move L4 into low-sec" has been around for litteraly years. CCP has made a tentative with lv5 low-sec only missions. Has this caused a massive abandon of high-sec lv4? Hell no. Lv5 is among the top of the "least used" features And you want to force them to, or accept a income reduction of over 90%? They are so going to unsub, it it be ugly.

If you wish to make suggestions CCP might actually listen to, you need to drop your attitude of trying to force high-sec dwellers to conform to your personnal vision of what they should be doing, and instead try to find out how to conform your objectives with what they want.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#64 - 2012-03-30 13:51:09 UTC
I have had a friend of mine take a look at some stats and the forums here.

He saw that mining is clearly more dangerous than lvl 4 missions. Therefor he couldn't understand why mining had way less of a pay out.
He can't even understand why people want to mine since next to the higher risk of being ganked and thus losing a very expensive ship would be preffered over the easier way of making an income by shooting rats.

The only way to have a better chance as a miner to survive a suicide gank is by upping the tank a lot, thus decreasing the Isk income a lot more.
So how ******** is that?
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2012-03-30 14:27:39 UTC
OP is a whining idiot.

OP: WHA WHA ITS NOT FAIR!
Lightbulb goes off in OP's head.
OP: Wait! Mission make more isk? Holy crap, why don't I actually do that instead!?!?!?!?

Bolded for emphasis. Stop ******* mining, because it is ******* terribad and should be removed from the game if left in its current form. You make more isk running missions, then run missions. Its ******* obvious! Shocked

You know why mining is dangerous?

1. Zero ******* risk to mine rocks, your biggest NPC foe is 7,000k isk newb frigates. NPC battle ships actually hit harder, but you have to be way smarter to keep the triggers in check and watch for the scrammers. In a hulk....activate miners...release drones...Zzzzz....Zzzzz....Zzzzz...ZERO ******* EFFORT AS YOUR CARGO HOLD FILLS.
2. ****** ******* tank. Remove Hulks and Rettys as they are so pointless to fly, **** ships that require upwards of 4 months to fly adequately that are nothing more then that stupid goat in the movie Jurassic Park, before its eating by the T-rex (Hint: You train to be a target, see #3)
3. Players. Zero absolute ******* risk to themselves from number 2. Hulks die fast and easy, why else do you think they are targeted so much? Besides the Butthurt Oops about it and Oral stimulation you give towards the guy, hulk bashing is far to profitable because you can kill them with ******* T1 ships. Proft = loss for you. Lets not forget, not only does their pod if -5 or more totatlly safe in highsec until they board a ship in a safe spot, but sec status is a ******* joke because thats the only penalty they face (after calculating the loss and the profit they will make from it). Make sec status actually mean something (like NPC pod you ass, taxes go up as you pay a premium to play bad ass) or buff the **** out of the hulk or zero loot drop with no salvage from the hulk (it is a pure isk sink, generating only KMs as the aggressor also loses out on everything and their ship to CONCORD_....then the ganking will happen less often.
4. You make more isk in nullsec then highsec, by mining those higher yield rocks. No different then making more isk in WH, lowsec, or nullsec. The reason Highsec looks so profitable, is because there is less risk. BUT!!!! You only make so much in highsec, you can make so much more anywhere else (factor out the risk...yes bounties and LP are much higher then in highsec WHOA! YOUR MIND IS BLOWN AWAY!!!). Highsec is just easier, because its like a minimum wage job with less hassle.
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2012-03-30 14:37:55 UTC
Roime wrote:
- move L4 missions to lowsec

You are a ******* idiot.

- Select Mission
- Fly high valuable ship, die to cheap ass T1 ship piloted by a risk adverse chest thumper that says he is hardcore.
- Oh look, its next system (you can be caught at undock, at the gate, and in system)
- Oh look, probes. So much for finishing that mission (warp out, cancel mission, take faction hit, wait for dude to leave system, well...bored off my ass log off. As I can't actually do anything for what I am paying for, why should I continue to pay CCP ?)
- Active tank = loser, passive buffer tank = winner. Thats just how it is.

So, have you yet figured out why highsec is what it is? Highsec is the ******* lounge area where you go to relax. ****...you do relize that the guys targeting mission ships are not even out to "challenge themselves" and they are just wracking up a game score without actual effort. Ask them to run a foot race against a slow drooling ******....they will still get the gold medal in the end as the mouth breather licks the lines off the dirt but in real life these dudes would feel ashamed....in a video game they don't ******* care who they defeat.
Adunh Slavy
#67 - 2012-03-30 15:26:20 UTC
This thread encourages ccp to move likely 50% of its PVE content away from 75% of its user base to satisfy 5% of the user base?

I have some bridges, please come have a look, they are nice bridges, for sale if you are interested.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2012-03-30 15:37:39 UTC
To further confirm the reality, I don't need to haul bounties or mission payouts to Jita.

I need to mission anyway to refine though. I suppose I could do Mining Missions. LOL, yea, that will happen.
Zircon Dasher
#69 - 2012-03-30 15:49:49 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
So, have you yet figured out why highsec is what it is? Highsec is the ******* lounge area where you go to relax. ****...you do relize that the guys targeting mission ships are not even out to "challenge themselves" and they are just wracking up a game score without actual effort. Ask them to run a foot race against a slow drooling ******....they will still get the gold medal in the end as the mouth breather licks the lines off the dirt but in real life these dudes would feel ashamed....in a video game they don't ******* care who they defeat.


Congrats on finally figuring out that some people pay for thier game by farming rats. Others pay for thier game by farming mouth breathers.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#70 - 2012-03-30 15:57:12 UTC
Aqriue wrote:
Roime wrote:
- move L4 missions to lowsec

You are a ******* idiot.

- Select Mission
- Fly high valuable ship, die to cheap ass T1 ship piloted by a risk adverse chest thumper that says he is hardcore.


You can fly something valuable, but lvl4's are quite easy to do in the most basic fitted BS. With some skill you can do them in BC (in fact most can be slept through in a BC but some of the hard ones require some thinking).

Quote:

- Oh look, its next system (you can be caught at undock, at the gate, and in system)
- Oh look, probes. So much for finishing that mission (warp out, cancel mission, take faction hit, wait for dude to leave system, well...bored off my ass log off. As I can't actually do anything for what I am paying for, why should I continue to pay CCP ?)


That's overkill when all you need to do is fit a cloak, warp to a safe and sit. Or warp to safe and log if you don't have a cloak. Come back in a half hour, generally they're gone.

Quote:

- Active tank = loser, passive buffer tank = winner. Thats just how it is.


Huh?
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#71 - 2012-03-30 16:01:32 UTC
Abim Starkiller wrote:
so ive tested its

it. My level 4 mission runnner with noctis support (bountys + selling salvage and loot in jita) - makes 45% more isk per hour than my hulk with orca support (perfect mining an refining skills selling minerals in jita).

just to be clear
i run level 4 security mission with caldari navy / corp police force. In a max out tengu (little i could do to improve it)
I fly a maxed hulk with T2 mining drones, with a orca that has max boosters and the 3 minning links. (nothing i could do to improve it)

Is this working as intended?


No, your ratio is ******* terrible to be blunt. You should make 4-5x as much missioning.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#72 - 2012-03-30 16:21:16 UTC
Aqriue wrote:

You are a ******* idiot.


I almost feel sorry to rain on your rantparade, but I've been doing my PVE almost exlusively in lowsec and whs since I could fly my first Vexor.

@ Shadowsword, I'll get back to your post later, props for keeping the discussion a bit more civilised than our man Aqriue here.

Now excuse me, it's playtime and I go either to die in the arms of the fiery T1 pilots, or kill them in my active tanked ship - fly dangerous o7

.
Rastuasi
Crunchy Crunchy
#73 - 2012-04-12 13:10:17 UTC
Roime wrote:
Big smile Thanks, but unfortunately those changes are way too big to through... but one can dream.

Another part of the problem is the stupid NPC AI and properties, which results in people fitting differently for shooting red crosses, and thus becoming weak against human opponents. Transition to lowsec would be much easier if you would fly a real combat ship in to NPCing as well.


I agree with this, I would love to pvp fit all my ships and go in with autocannons a blazing and so on. Now for missions, I will say that solo tank should be allowed as there are active solo tanks in pvp, but having it so that close range fits are more viable in missions would be nice.

Also, to the OP...I see just as many high sec lvl IV ganks as I do miners, so the risk is higher in missions due to the fact you are tanking the rats and THEN the attackers. Ofc missions do require more effort to gank, but saying that there is NO risk is a lie and incorrect statement.