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New dev blog: Changes to War Mechanics

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Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#321 - 2012-03-30 08:47:58 UTC
Harimata wrote:


tl;dr
- The aggressor has to place a non-trivial amount of ISK into escrow for whoever "wins" the war


A very good suggestion - essentially an 'ante' that the aggressor bets on winning the war. If they are defeated by the defender then the defender (and allies) win the ante. That would be one mechanism to encourage the defender to fight back, and dissuade the aggressor from placing random decs just to get targets to pad out a killboard.

Something which hasn't been covered is the ability of a defender to surrender under terms. The above example also provides a potential solution: i.e that the defender has the option to match the ante to end the war - a tribute so to speak. This sounds a great idea in theory although it raises considerably the risk that corps will dec targets purely to see if they will pay out a tribute to surrender.

C.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#322 - 2012-03-30 08:54:03 UTC
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Nekerjelnezest
Ten Below Zero
#323 - 2012-03-30 08:56:27 UTC
1) You need to fix war cost increase when decced corp joins alliance. It should cost the same.

2) PPl leaving decced corp: get a chicken title Lol
OR force them to stay in noobcorp for 1 month at a tax rate of 50%, as a bribe to concord :)

3) Neut repp is annoying, most pussies use them.

- make neut repper corp free to war
- if noobcorps, make tax rate increase (or impossible for them to rr - though this must be difficult)
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
#324 - 2012-03-30 08:56:39 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:

Q: Paying mercs?
A: The ally contract will enforce a one time payment up front. Other deals (like for length of war, reimburse losses or per kill) is between the defender and the merc and is not enforced by the system.


There needs to be a way for defenders to have a bounty payment system, like automatically pay the mercs based on ISK loss to aggressor (or something like that).



That should be possible - if the War Report is tracking asset loss then the contract with the Merc Corp could pay on the basis of assets destroyed - i,e the defending corp sees a bill of cost. The employing corp can either pay through the war (in stages) or at the end of the war.

There remains the chance that the merc corp will blow up its own assets (aggressor alt corp) but that would be a zero sum game for the most part as they could have sold those assets for their mineral worth.

C.
Halycon Gamma
Perkone
Caldari State
#325 - 2012-03-30 09:10:21 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.


They did train PVP skills. I dare the average combat player to engage them in market combat.

That is their game. It's what they do, its what they enjoy, and its what they are good at. The tools for it haven't had a major rework in years, it isn't nearly as sexy as pretty explosions, they've lived through broken promise after broken promise to do a major revamp on it for as long as I've been playing, and still they keep at it because it's what they enjoy.

They don't bring market PVP to you, and if they've done it right, a lot of the time it makes combat PVP easier.

You want to bring non consensual combat to them, fine. As long as the patch brings something to the table to make you deal with the area of PVP they excel at.

Goodluck, you'll need it.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#326 - 2012-03-30 09:18:01 UTC
Halycon Gamma wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.


They did train PVP skills. I dare the average combat player to engage them in market combat.

That is their game. It's what they do, its what they enjoy, and its what they are good at. The tools for it haven't had a major rework in years, it isn't nearly as sexy as pretty explosions, they've lived through broken promise after broken promise to do a major revamp on it for as long as I've been playing, and still they keep at it because it's what they enjoy.

They don't bring market PVP to you, and if they've done it right, a lot of the time it makes combat PVP easier.

You want to bring non consensual combat to them, fine. As long as the patch brings something to the table to make you deal with the area of PVP they excel at.

Goodluck, you'll need it.


I fully support this. However, improvements to the market, mining and industry in general are off topic here. Of course, me being also an industrial player, I'll be more than happy to discuss them in the appropriate place.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Severian Carnifex
#327 - 2012-03-30 09:30:20 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.



If you (PVP-er) train all my skills, I (Industry, Miner) will train all your skills.

Deal???


I didn't think so.RollRollRoll
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#328 - 2012-03-30 09:35:10 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.



http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg

Just saying.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
sadfer rizon
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#329 - 2012-03-30 09:36:25 UTC  |  Edited by: sadfer rizon
...
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#330 - 2012-03-30 09:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Karim alRashid
Severian Carnifex wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.

You are not supposed to leave yourself defenseless in this game. Hire someone to protect you. Train some combat skills. Get combat pilots in your corps. Learn to defend yourself.



If you (PVP-er) train all my skills, I (Industry, Miner) will train all your skills.

Deal???

I didn't think so.RollRollRoll


Kindergarten is that way. ->

Can you give a even single reason why I should do this? Thought so.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#331 - 2012-03-30 09:42:39 UTC
This is the Red vs Blue future:
One of them attacks a 1 man corporation called "Scapegoat" - pays the 50m
The "Scapegoat" corporation hires the other alliance as a merc for a 1-time fee of 0 or 1 isk

I guess it's 50m more than what they are paying for mutual wars atm but they can live with that I'm sure.

However this doesn't fix the many issues of:

* Large entities cheaply being able to harass smaller ones
* Small entities not being able to afford a David vs Goliath war
* Defenders are far more able to affect the cost of war than an agressor
* Agressor size is not taken into account
* Multiple agressors can't get on the same war-sheet
* Defenders not being able to turn the war around and as such have no goals in a war

Basically the only things changing are the prices and the interface...
The Snowman
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#332 - 2012-03-30 09:43:49 UTC
Karim alRashid wrote:
Dear hi-sec industrialists, miners, mission/incursion runners, traders, etc.


Dear 0.0 bears, stops grinding anomalies everyday and increasing inflation. Just because your in 0.0 doesnt mean your any different to high-sec dwellers.

And stop making statements about things you know nothing about. These changes just mean staying in npc corp. that is all.
Avila Cracko
#333 - 2012-03-30 09:54:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
Karim alRashid wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.



http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg

Just saying.


EVE residents: 5.4% WH; 8.2% Lowsec; 15.0% Nullsec; 71.5% Highsec.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/84/wheredopeoplelive.png

Just saying.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Karim alRashid
Starboard.
#334 - 2012-03-30 10:11:06 UTC
Avila Cracko wrote:
Karim alRashid wrote:
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:

EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec.



http://d35dgn2pdc8wsn.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg

Just saying.


EVE residents: 5.4% WH; 8.2% Lowsec; 15.0% Nullsec; 71.5% Highsec.
http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/84/wheredopeoplelive.png

Just saying.


http://i.imgur.com/Nk4dn.jpg

Just saying.

Pain is weakness leaving the body http://www.youtube.com/user/AlRashidKarim/videos
Halycon Gamma
Perkone
Caldari State
#335 - 2012-03-30 10:22:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Halycon Gamma
Pinky Denmark wrote:
This is the Red vs Blue future:
One of them attacks a 1 man corporation called "Scapegoat" - pays the 50m
The "Scapegoat" corporation hires the other alliance as a merc for a 1-time fee of 0 or 1 isk

I guess it's 50m more than what they are paying for mutual wars atm but they can live with that I'm sure.

However this doesn't fix the many issues of:

* Large entities cheaply being able to harass smaller ones
* Small entities not being able to afford a David vs Goliath war
* Defenders are far more able to affect the cost of war than an agressor
* Agressor size is not taken into account
* Multiple agressors can't get on the same war-sheet
* Defenders not being able to turn the war around and as such have no goals in a war

Basically the only things changing are the prices and the interface...


Nope, because war decs follow you. Can't get out of them from attacking or defending side. War has consequences now. So joining Red vs Blue, having a bit of fun, and walking away from it doesn't work. Only way you can get out is if the attacker doesn't pay the cost, or if the attacker accepts a surrender. Merc corps are just as stuck with it as the principle players.

If your corp attacks someone and it starts going badly, you're just as stuck with it no matter what you do if your CEO won't quit it. Leave the corp, and it'll just follow you. So RvB no longer has a place in New Eden unless 1 week out of every month they stop the war to clear the roster. Which sorta ends the idea of RvB's constant war, and what makes it truly unique.
bornaa
GRiD.
#336 - 2012-03-30 10:24:32 UTC
I see that EVE is becoming like RL in too many things.
There is less and less middle class of citizens in EVE like there is less and less of it in RL.
And CCP is working hard on dipolarizing this society even more and CCP is having success in it like RL governments have.
So there will remain only poor and rich people, and groups of people, and middle class will be annihilated.

Why the hell are you working so hard to ruin the game CCP???
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#337 - 2012-03-30 10:30:16 UTC
On that killmail picture, why is M0tha II listed with a Hurricane as top damage and killing blow, but on the damage list below he's in a Rupture.. devhax!

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Halycon Gamma
Perkone
Caldari State
#338 - 2012-03-30 10:32:17 UTC
So, question.

If my corp is in an Alliance A, then Alliance B wardecs them, and my corp decides Alliance A are some evil people and it's going to take its resources and join Alliance B.

Does that mean since the new and improved space aids follows, that you can be a member of an alliance you're also stuck at being at war with at the same time?

Because that would be awesomely funny.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#339 - 2012-03-30 10:43:05 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:

Q: Tiny entities deccing large entities?
A: The fact this makes this harder is a conscious decision. We don't want to ban this activity of course, but see no reason to support it.

how stupid do you sound?

incredibly

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
KanashiiKami
#340 - 2012-03-30 10:48:50 UTC
bornaa wrote:
We all know that majority of EVE players are in Hi-sec small corps.
We all know that all this years it was like that.
We all know that players like to have something theirs (corp).
We all know that players wont change their game stile.
We all know that if you invested years of game time in SP for industry you will not train for something else.
I seems that you want to definitely kill industry. You nerf it with every expansion and with this you are making the biggest step.
We all know that in majority of cases when corp is war deced:
players don't undock or players go to NPC corp and some players just leave the game - this changes will make this things permanent - more players that leave.
You cant force people to play the game differently.
You gave them options on the beginning and now you want to take them away from them???
With this, you can just kill all corps with less then like 1000 people, it will have the same effect.

What do you want to accomplish with this changes?
You want that all people that are not pure PvP griefers leave the game?
You want to kill the small and medium corps?
You want to kill the industry?
You want to push all players to 0.0?
You want to push all players to NPC corps?
You want to make EVE less attractive to new players?
You want to make EVE less attractive to any players that don't call themself griefers?
I really don't know what your intention is, only bad things are coming to my mind.

What ever you think you will accomplish with this - it will ruin the game for majority of players and you know what comes with that.



what you said is so true, i agree

WUT ???