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Ship mass =/= bumping ability

Author
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-30 06:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Any of you who have lived in nullsec much have probably heard a titan or supercarrier pilot tell fleet members to be extremely careful not to bump the titan out of the safety of the POS bubble. Those of you who haven't witnessed that have still probably had some experience with bumping ships around in some capacity. As you may have noticed, a tiny, lightweight frigate can bump a battleship around pretty good. Not as well as another battleship perhaps, but far better than a tiny frigate ought to be able to.

I believe that a ships bumping ability should be a direct computation of its mass x its velocity at impact. If it were that way, a frigate (about 1,500,000kg with prop mod running) slamming into a battleship (about 100,000,000kg) at 3000m/s would push the battleship a whole 45m/s before the frigate was completely stopped. In fact, if you want to get really realistic, the frigate bouncing off the battleship would keep some of the impact momentum inside the frigate. The battleship might be pushed 22.5m/s, while the frigate might be bounced off at 1500m/s.

Not only does that make sense, but it would make the game a bit more "fair" if you will. Too often, players take advantage of this magic bumping effect and use a lot of small, cheap ships to bump a very large and expensive ship (many times the combined worth of the ships bumping it) and move it into a tactically critical position or for other offense reasons. Making ships mass and velocity directly affecting bumping power would force ship bumpers to put something more expensive at risk in order to get the job done. It would also decrease a lot of supercapital pilots' risk of heart attack.

After all, isn't that what EVE is about? Killing expensive targets with expensive targets? I'm all in favor of waking up the sleeping masses and showing them that EVE is a dark and cruel universe that will show no mercy for complacency. Therefore, just as I like to see vapid carebears lose their ridiculously expensive ships that they don't know how to defend, I also like to see certain complacent pirates learn the hard way that cheap tricks do not make you an expert at PVP.

Thank you, that is all.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Tobiaz
Spacerats
#2 - 2012-03-30 09:34:54 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:

After all, isn't that what EVE is about? [Killing expensive targets with expensive targets?


I certainly hope not!

But yes, bumping could use some attention. Though I think it has never been addressed before because EVE's physics are a fickle *****.

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Zverofaust
Ascetic Virtues
#3 - 2012-03-30 09:41:10 UTC
Quote:
In fact, if you want to get really realistic


Then the frigate would in fact explode on impact and there would be no silly magnet bounce crap going on. Titans would have probably even have their own gravitational pull affecting nearby objects.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#4 - 2012-03-30 09:50:22 UTC
Those pesky frigs bump my dread - and they bump it good too!

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Cpt Greagor
Liquid Relief
#5 - 2012-03-30 09:56:10 UTC
Now why would you want to use an extremely simple, fundamental equation from physics like that?

Wouldn't it be soooo much easier to come up with a probably extremely complex and easily breakable equation like CCP uses?

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WisdomLikeSilence
BurgerkingTM
#6 - 2012-03-30 10:11:24 UTC
It would be great if when they bring in tesselation, if bumping took some of your cpu off, as it struggles to boost shields against impact.

The faster the impacter the more cpu is taken.
Raiz Nhell
Tactically Challenged
The Initiative.
#7 - 2012-03-30 10:25:39 UTC
Maybe our ships have avoidance mechanisms...

Thats why we gain velocity, but take no damage at all...

The ship itself has self preservation mechanisms to avoid impact...

Not that far fetched really

There is no such thing as a fair fight...

If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.

Nataliya Barre
Men of Mayhem Inc.
Stockholm Syndrome.
#8 - 2012-03-30 10:29:39 UTC
Bump!

Couldnt resist Lol
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#9 - 2012-03-30 10:38:35 UTC
I dint read the OP (sorry, it looked long and, well, long) but bumping is stupid. I mean, whats that all about? Being able to bump a huge freighter out of alignment by ramming it. That would mean death and destruction to the small ship and a little damage to the freighter.

I know, I know, the undock carnage at jita, the wrecks strewn all over pretty much everywhere etc etc. But teh answer shoudl never have been a ridiculous thing like bumping. Bumping is stupid. May as well just let ships fly through each other and ignore the reality aspect, since bumping is actually just as dumb anyway and would no longer be a usable (ridicluous) tactic in pvp.

And before the mandatory "Who bumped and killed you, you mad bro, you seem angry" Dont bother, bumping is also a tactic I actually use against people becasue it is there. I just think its dumb.

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#10 - 2012-03-30 10:44:50 UTC
I always wanted a highslot 'ramming' module. Its damage should be affected by your own ships mass and speed, vs targets mass an angular (or similar).

As for calling bumping 'stupid' and wanting logic, there's alot of more stupid things going on in this game, and many have to from a game design perspective, simply put. You can only compromise so much. Bumping has always been a tactic where you can tell the good from the bad, how many motherships got killed before we had HICs? The tactic wasn't that hard, but not many could pull it off anyway.. you can still see when people are asked to "bump x", how people bump it the wrong way or just don't know what the hell they are doing.

Personally I find this is adding an element of the game, that makes PvP a bit more attractive. Always brings a smile to see PvP vids with properly executed bumps. I wouldn't want to see it gone.

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Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#11 - 2012-03-30 11:15:20 UTC
perhaps with the idea of a new graphics update that introduced some addition phyics (asteroids bumping and shattering) and *fingers crossed* no more "bound boxes" we can hope for a bit more realism and yes, less bumping.

Although bumping people can be extremely funny, until somebody loses an eye :(.

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Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#12 - 2012-03-30 11:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Eternum Praetorian
Raiz Nhell wrote:
Maybe our ships have avoidance mechanisms...

Thats why we gain velocity, but take no damage at all...

The ship itself has self preservation mechanisms to avoid impact...

Not that far fetched really


Avoidance would be angular/sideways vs the direction of the impacting object, not in the same direction of motion thus mimicking a "bump". Why? Because that is the easiest way to avoid an impact. So, no not really.

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Memrox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-03-30 12:02:27 UTC
I love me some shield on shield action.
Factor Fett
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-30 12:20:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Factor Fett
Raiz Nhell wrote:
Maybe our ships have avoidance mechanisms...
Thats why we gain velocity, but take no damage at all...
The ship itself has self preservation mechanisms to avoid impact...
Not that far fetched really

Yes, in EVE, the anti-collision systems on the ships make the BUMP effect.
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#15 - 2012-03-30 12:44:15 UTC
I agree with the OP. Massive ships should be only be effected slightly by tiny ships bumping them. The ships with massive mass should move only slightly, and the small ship should be thrown much further. I think this is one of the most unrealistic things about eve, right up there with the whole "warping through planets and stuff".

Bumping is pretty standard tactic against massive ships now, to the point of abuse imo. Though i wouldn't hold my breath that it would be changed, i would sure welcome it, and i'm sure physics would too.

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  

Im Super Gay
Investtan Inc.
The Republic.
#16 - 2012-03-30 12:45:55 UTC
WisdomLikeSilence wrote:
It would be great if when they bring in tesselation, if bumping took some of your cpu off, as it struggles to boost shields against impact.

The faster the impacter the more cpu is taken.

Fool, you divert more POWER to the shields, not CPU.
DarkAegix
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-30 14:12:11 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:


I believe that a ships bumping ability should be a direct computation of its mass x its velocity at impact.

An actual physics formula used correctly in my EVE!?
Impossible! Unimaginable!
Adunh Slavy
#18 - 2012-03-30 14:18:11 UTC
Eve Bumping is pretty silly. Also, if a ship can't be docked, much less some poor sap living in WH space, the least that could be allowed is have the ability to anchor a ship at a POS and lock it with a password for boarding.

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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#19 - 2012-03-30 14:31:58 UTC
While it would be nice to have more physics realism in Eve, there are some sacrifices made for having working game mechanics. That's why bumping isn't crashing (and taking damage). Bumping also works the way it is because it is currently the only really reliable way to counter station docking games (ram them off of the station) or gate games. Until the "unrealism" of a ship being able to suddenly dock into a station as it has tens of guns shooting it gets replaced by a realistic mechanic, bumping shouldn't be made more realistic.

I say this as a lowsec resident who deals with bumping as a tactic very often. It's annoying and not how things should work, but without it a lot of stuff would be broken.

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-03-30 18:56:42 UTC
I have an idea. Howabout when you get an aggression timer, it activates a docking countdown based on your ship's size, and if you undock with an aggression timer, you can't re-dock for the same amount of time.

Frigates: 10s
Cruisers and Subcapital Industrials: 20s
Battleships: 40s
Capital Ships: 120s

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

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