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Reduce minerals gained from reprocessed items and drones
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AraniFyr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-02-28 23:33:51 UTC  |  Edited by: AraniFyr
The word minerals has the word miner in it.

Minerals should mainly be coming from miners, not mission runners and drone poop.

If this would cause prices of item's to raise, thus reducing pvp, then buff miners to make up for it

Miners are in need of a good buff ( or maybe not a buff but atleast an update )
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-02-28 23:51:14 UTC
I vaguely remembering something about this before and it seems there's very little minerals released from refining loot from missions in comparison to mining and drone loot.

Again, I am sure there was some proposal from CCP about changing the Drones in the Drone Regions to have bounty and not drop the current loot for minerals.

That alone would buff miners as that accounts for a huge amount of minerals in the game.

Probably best to do a search on the forums about this. Think it was in the latest CSM minutes.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#3 - 2012-02-29 00:55:00 UTC
Head over to Seleene's Sandbox where the issue is being discussed :)

Reducing the value of reprocessing is not a good idea, IMHO.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-02-29 01:11:48 UTC
I have heard others agree that drones should stop dropping compounds that reprocess for minerals. As a matter of fact, mineral income from sources other than mining actually outweigh total mining yield, even though most of the mining yield comes from bots. Reducing the minerals from sources other than mining will not have all these crazy effects that so many people come up with, they need to think more than one step ahead. Les minerals means mineral prices rise means more players mine. The market would find a new equilibrium. Mining would be a higher paying profession and more commonly done by regular players, and ship prices would also rise significantly but not dramatically.

I'd plus one you but it's already being discussed elsewhere.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
AraniFyr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-20 14:20:33 UTC
Hope this happens!!!Cool
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#6 - 2012-03-21 14:50:28 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
The market would find a new equilibrium. Mining would be a higher paying profession and more commonly done by regular players, and ship prices would also rise significantly but not dramatically..

Ship prices have already risen significantly and dramatically.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-03-21 15:05:31 UTC
Yeah, lets trash the economy, cause huge inflation, all so the four players who mine without bots gain 30% more isk per hour. Brilliant idea. You should enter politics.
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-21 15:37:08 UTC
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Yeah, lets trash the economy, cause huge inflation, all so the four players who mine without bots gain 30% more isk per hour. Brilliant idea. You should enter politics.


So let me just clarify this, you are advocating that the Drone Regions still drop drone minerals for refining that seriously deflate the prices of minerals to make mining unprofitable for the people that actually enjoy doing that?

Just to break it down to it's nuts and bolts, you are happy that a few alliances in the Drone Regions have a virtual monopoly on mineral prices?

Brilliant idea. You should enter politics. Roll
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-03-21 17:10:57 UTC
Smiling Menace wrote:
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Yeah, lets trash the economy, cause huge inflation, all so the four players who mine without bots gain 30% more isk per hour. Brilliant idea. You should enter politics.


So let me just clarify this, you are advocating that the Drone Regions still drop drone minerals for refining that seriously deflate the prices of minerals to make mining unprofitable for the people that actually enjoy doing that?

Just to break it down to it's nuts and bolts, you are happy that a few alliances in the Drone Regions have a virtual monopoly on mineral prices?

Brilliant idea. You should enter politics. Roll


Dont get me wrong, Id prefer that drone regions never had mineral poo in the first place. However it is too late now. Removing such a major source of minerals will cause the price of minerals to increase dramatically, thus increasing the prices of ships and mods to increase dramatically - yay inflation. Unless CCP watch the prices of everything, and raise the bounty/mission rewards etc to match this inflation on a weekly basis, this move will screw over actual players in favour of mining bot owners. And lets face it, who is more valuable to the game - someone who farms drone poo by day, warring by night, or a bot?
Smiling Menace
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-03-21 18:46:30 UTC
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Smiling Menace wrote:
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Yeah, lets trash the economy, cause huge inflation, all so the four players who mine without bots gain 30% more isk per hour. Brilliant idea. You should enter politics.


So let me just clarify this, you are advocating that the Drone Regions still drop drone minerals for refining that seriously deflate the prices of minerals to make mining unprofitable for the people that actually enjoy doing that?

Just to break it down to it's nuts and bolts, you are happy that a few alliances in the Drone Regions have a virtual monopoly on mineral prices?

Brilliant idea. You should enter politics. Roll


Dont get me wrong, Id prefer that drone regions never had mineral poo in the first place. However it is too late now. Removing such a major source of minerals will cause the price of minerals to increase dramatically, thus increasing the prices of ships and mods to increase dramatically - yay inflation. Unless CCP watch the prices of everything, and raise the bounty/mission rewards etc to match this inflation on a weekly basis, this move will screw over actual players in favour of mining bot owners. And lets face it, who is more valuable to the game - someone who farms drone poo by day, warring by night, or a bot?


I can see your point but I think CCP are (and should continue) to slam the banhammer down on bots.

Sure, for the short term ship/mod prices will increase but once miners actually start to see profit for mining, it will settle down before long....hopefully.
Blatant Forum Alt
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-03-21 19:03:33 UTC
If this was combined with a boost to mining yield - or perhaps a reduction in the number of units of ore required for one reprocessing cycle, or increasing the mineral output of a reprocessing cycle, or something else to increase the mineral output of miners, AND another crackdown on botters, then that might be enough compensation to lower the damaging effects of removing mineral poo from drones. But simply removing mineral drops from drones as a single change will have more negative than positive effects, in my opinion.

If CCP could give us concrete data on the origin of all minerals, then it would help clarify this issue - it could be that mining accounts for a tiny fraction of the actual mineral output, it could be that drone poo provides a tiny proportion, we just dont know. Most reasoned guesses put mining at about 40% ish, with drone poo at 30% ish, and misc sources such as mod drops at 20%. And those are VERY rough figures :P
AraniFyr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-03-21 19:18:06 UTC
Blatant Forum Alt wrote:
Yeah, lets trash the economy, cause huge inflation, all so the four players who mine without bots gain 30% more isk per hour. Brilliant idea. You should enter politics.



I know your trying to sound funny but there are alot of people that mine as a main source of income and alot of people that have the ability to but have moved on. With higher mineral payouts will come more miners.

also yeah a boost to yeild or reprocessing could help solve the drone region problem you stated
Warrior Spec
TEMPLAR.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2012-03-21 19:20:01 UTC
If they remove drone alloy drops I don't think this will be needed. This would also likely need to be done by nerfing refining which I don't think anyone wants.
AraniFyr
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-03-27 16:39:23 UTC
It had been confirmed in a video interview that yes, drone rats are moving to bounties and that ccp think mining is not a viable profession in it's current state.


THANK YOU CCP
Drake Jeffers
AirHogs
Hogs Collective
#15 - 2012-03-29 03:33:28 UTC
do i agree with miners being the main resource of minerals ?

yes

do i agree with you being able to carebear for free and get more profit from that than doing something real ?

not so much.


So idk if this will happen.
Abulurd Boniface
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-30 09:36:33 UTC
Drake Jeffers wrote:

do i agree with you being able to carebear for free and get more profit from that than doing something real ?


I'm trying to wrap my head around the argument that the person who is providing the basic resource that drives the economy in New Eden by providing minerals to the market for building the machinery of EVE would not be 'doing something real'.

CCP created the mining profession. Either they mean that and they stop debasing the profession by giving away minerals gratis as a byproduct of other activity and they make it meaningful by making the miner a key constituent in the New Eden equation. Or, they remove mining from the environment altogether, we give all our money to the people driving the drone regions and accept that as the cost of doing business. It's their call.

I always get a hearty laugh out of 'care bearing' and 'risk free' out of the mouths of people who shoot ships that have no guns. Hulkageddon is an event. I'm not speaking out against Hulkageddon. It is emergent behavior in New Eden, it should totally happen if people want to do it, but don't call mining a risk free enterprise when you, the pirate, are introducing that risk.

CCP, from the design stage, should have made mining an integral, and essential, part of the process of running an alliance. Because logistics are important. "Amateurs do tactics, professionals do logistics". Resource acquisition for alliance manufacturing should be a key component of alliance operations. That would show who the real leaders are. That would be real life in New Eden.

The comment that always comes back is: mineral prices would go up, ship prices would go up. Doesn't that stand to reason, fellow pod pilot? Isn't that what risk versus reward is? Is that not what I have been saying? If the cost of production goes up [cfr. Hulkageddon], the price of the product should also go up.

You should most definitely have your fun, and more power to you, but then you also have to bear the cost associated with the activity. And then I also want to make it clear that I don't agree with some consequences of the newly proposed crime watch mechanic that would turn Empire space into a gigantic plastic ball to cushion the blow and make it safe for players. It is the slippery slope that dumbs down the experience and we don't want to go there. I have always considered the great risks I'm taking flying anywhere and that should always be the case.

Empire should be 'safer' than the rest of space, it should not just be 'safe'. Let's not become politically correct.