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The assassination of the Chairman, how CCP plays the EULA/TOS
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#21 - 2012-03-29 20:03:39 UTC
Kaver Linkovir wrote:
CCP knew what was to be presented


No, they didn't know Mittens would say what he did. They knew the e-mail would be presented, NOT the suggestion of harassment.

Seriously, can this just end now? Butthurt pubbies and butthurt goons crapping up every forum with the same stuff.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Prince Kobol
#22 - 2012-03-29 20:07:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
We deserve nothing, that is the way of these things.

You see what you need to realise, and this is not just for CCP but for any MMO developer that has a EULA/TOS (All of them) is that they are designed and written to allow the develop to ban you for what ever reason they want.

If a dev had a really ****** morning and wanted to take it out by banning somebody, they could come up with some ****** excuse and ban your ass and there is nothing you can do expect suck it up.

Now okay that is an extreme example, but it doesn't change the fact that they can do that.

Hell I have seen Turbine ban people for saying that they were being cheated by them and the ironic thing was they were.

They actually proved it and got their money back but the ban was still not lifted.

You can harp on as much as you like but CCP do not have to justify jack ****.

"We deserve specifics and insight into the decision making process that eliminates a broad voter base from being represented"

You see we don't, Hell I wasted 2 of my 4 votes on Kittens but you don not see me stamping my feet like a spoiled child trying to get CCP attention.

Why, because I understand that this is their game, their rules. That and it was his own damn fault he said what he said, and the problem was then magnified 100x by having a multitude of goons and there pets posting crap and making a bad but certainly salvageable situation in to a massive **** storm.
Cap'n Tripps
Bloodnock Industries
#23 - 2012-03-29 20:13:09 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
We deserve nothing, that is the way of these things.

Why, because I understand that this is their game, their rules. That and it was his own damn fault he said what he said, and the problem was then magnified 100x by having a multitude of goons and there pets posting crap and making a bad but certainly salvageable situation in to a massive **** storm.


Sums it up quite nicely Lol
Ceptia Cyna
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-29 20:58:26 UTC
~ deal with it ~
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-03-29 20:58:35 UTC
Kaver Linkovir wrote:
Today was a day eagerly anticipated by some, dreddit by most and feared by those frequently testing the EULA/TOS waters.

CCP did something awful and assassinated the Chairman in the grey zone of EVE online. They took one instance and used it to prepare the firing squad. Publicising only the decision and not the reasoning behind it, hiding in the murky depths of unpublicised decision making.

Crippling the democratic process they claim to hold in high regard by venting themselves of the most powerful public figure in all of EVE backed by a landslide win.

I call shenanigans on CCP for intervening in the democratic process.

I do so having frequently asked for EULA clarifications and often receiving only useless dust incarnate. I do so having personally experienced a 30 day ban on my person being overturned because I was deep in the EULA grey zone. I do so fully aware of the fallacy that is the closed process of assessing behaviour and the in game boundaries thereof.

Furthermore, I asses that, while “The Mittani” is eligible for a 30 day ban the person behind this account, the person elected to the office of CSM 7, can in no way, shape or form be held accountable for the actions of his online alter ego in any way. The CCP requirement of entering a real person (by the submission of real life personal details) into the CSM election cements this duality in place. Furthermore, “The Alliance Panel” is a place where the speakers are in character as opposed to being their natural persona.

If CCP chooses to uphold this venting of the Chairman, this public assassination of their best critic, they open the floodgates to in game alter egos being equated to their real life persona. This will snowball into every EVE alter ego suddenly being your real identity and thus liable in the broadest sense of the word.

It merges the game world with the real world and thus equates in game actions to real world actions.

It will destroy the EVE we hold dear.

Please like if you would prefer your alter ego's actions stay in game.


Are you a moron or are you being intentionally dense? The Mittani and AG are one and the same, and besides, it was the actions of the man, not the online alter ego making the comments and breaking the EULA. Furthermore, all political leaders are responsible for their actions, and may be deposed based on those actions. Presidents get impeached, politicians get recalled, some even get ousted in coups, and assassinated if they are unlucky enough. Why should a video game chairman somehow be immune from his reprehensible actions?

CCP didn't make Alex say those things, he took his in-game persona way too far into REAL LIFE and proceeded to get himself in a world of hurt over it. He got off pretty damn lucky with a 30 day ban and removal from the CSM only, I've seen worse for less. But if you are going to be mad at anyone, it's the Mittani that you should be mad at. You guys voted him in, and through foolish actions, he got himself removed from office and your votes wasted. That's not CCP's fault. Be intellectually honest and put the blame where it deserves to be.

I honestly respect Alex for stepping up and taking the consequences for his actions like a man. Despite his online persona, he realized when he stepped over the line and, like an adult, apologized for his actions, and attempted to make reperations. There are not many people that would do that, and I believe that his example of humility should serve as an example to more people. He may be the biggest villain in game, but in life, he is not as bad as everyone wants to paint him.
"If."
Kaver Linkovir
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#26 - 2012-03-29 22:25:22 UTC
Nephilius wrote:
Are you a moron or are you being intentionally dense? The Mittani and AG are one and the same, and besides, it was the actions of the man, not the online alter ego making the comments and breaking the EULA. Furthermore, all political leaders are responsible for their actions, and may be deposed based on those actions. Presidents get impeached, politicians get recalled, some even get ousted in coups, and assassinated if they are unlucky enough. Why should a video game chairman somehow be immune from his reprehensible actions?

CCP didn't make Alex say those things, he took his in-game persona way too far into REAL LIFE and proceeded to get himself in a world of hurt over it. He got off pretty damn lucky with a 30 day ban and removal from the CSM only, I've seen worse for less. But if you are going to be mad at anyone, it's the Mittani that you should be mad at. You guys voted him in, and through foolish actions, he got himself removed from office and your votes wasted. That's not CCP's fault. Be intellectually honest and put the blame where it deserves to be.

I honestly respect Alex for stepping up and taking the consequences for his actions like a man. Despite his online persona, he realized when he stepped over the line and, like an adult, apologized for his actions, and attempted to make reperations. There are not many people that would do that, and I believe that his example of humility should serve as an example to more people. He may be the biggest villain in game, but in life, he is not as bad as everyone wants to paint him.


I, Sir, take offence at your qualification of "moron" but the intentionally dense option is quite offencive as well.

We are not out alter egos and vice versa. If we were we wouldn't have the avatar. We wouldn't be able to use an avatar because we would be unable to comprehend such. Something you seem unable to do, so...my appologies for making you look dense.

Political leaders are judged by chosen representatives, a relatively acurate portrail of their constituance. Coups are generated by the majority. This leaves "assassinated" for the unlucky enough. Thereby, by your own assesment, I was spot on in calling this action by CCP an assasination.

"I've seen worse for less" Yes, and I have seen less for worse. Both dished out by CCP. This inconcistancy is a direct result of their policy to keep any and all GM decisions under the blanket of secrecy.

Furthermore, I didn't vote for the mittani. Your assumption that I am angry I wasted a vote is thus a wrong assumption. Moreso, I resent being painted with the "for us or against us" stereotype. It reveals the bigotist pigeonholing you have fallen into.

Any entity that shrugs off scrutiny as CCP does while undermining democratic process is a danger to the rationale.

Prey to your CCP diety on your own time, stop wasting mine trying to rub my nose in your beliefs.
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-03-29 22:35:34 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
We deserve nothing, that is the way of these things. Then I wrote a buncha other unnecessary stuff that was summed up in my first sentence.

Holy wall of text, meight. Thanks for that.

I agree with you, we as a playerbase DESERVE nothing. However, CCP granted us votes for CSM delegates and promised that it would matter in exchange for player turn out. That is a transaction. They ask for our opinions in exchange for delegates on the CSM.

If they want to take away the member who earned 10000 votes, then they can do that too. So far, all is square. Until that WHOLE ******* FANFEST ABOUT LISTENING TO PLAYERS. Three days of fanfest harping on how they screwed up by not listening to the community and what is their first move three days after fanfest? Tossing 10000 player voices in the shitter. Awesome player relations there, CCP. Didnt want those happy players anyways.

Now, since I present a valid point, let's steer the discussion towards something irrelevant. Or how about we post more tired memes. Bitches love tired ass memes.
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#28 - 2012-03-29 22:55:17 UTC
mxzf wrote:
Besides the fact that having a list of forbidden [activities] opens CCP up to people doing something that's not covered and then the player saying "but you didn't specifically tell me I couldn't do that" as an excuse. The current system puts the burden on the players to follow the spirit of the rule, rather thatn putting the burden on CCP to cover any possible loophole there might be.


This was the best answer I got when posting a thread that included a similar assertion about clarifying the EULA. Good enough answer as any.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Kaver Linkovir
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#29 - 2012-03-29 23:08:11 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
mxzf wrote:
Besides the fact that having a list of forbidden [activities] opens CCP up to people doing something that's not covered and then the player saying "but you didn't specifically tell me I couldn't do that" as an excuse. The current system puts the burden on the players to follow the spirit of the rule, rather thatn putting the burden on CCP to cover any possible loophole there might be.


This was the best answer I got when posting a thread that included a similar assertion about clarifying the EULA. Good enough answer as any.


It's a copout. Such a thing would be warrented if CCP would rule in transparancy. GM rulings are anything but.

Also, I have frequently asked for clarification before, during and after actions that fall in the grey zone, since I have no feeling for "spirit" let alone feeling for "the spirit of the rule". It has been made redundantly clear that CCP has no clue on the line they want to draw in the sand. If CCP itself isn't clear on where the line is, how can the more creative of us ever hope to know?
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