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Request for clarification on harassment policy

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Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#161 - 2012-03-29 18:57:54 UTC
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
C Genix
Genix Family
#162 - 2012-03-29 19:01:48 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?
Serene Repose
#163 - 2012-03-29 19:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
This would be simple if everyone would behave as they know they should (in a fashion that keeps daddy from smackin' you in the back of the head, or makes mom reach for a two-by-four). But, you have to indulge in what you know is ill-mannered, uncivil and detestable behavior, so you need your own set of rules.

Then, of course (it naturally follows,) in search of that grey area where you can STILL behave like ill-bred baboons, you can't quite grasp the lines if someone tatooed them on your faces. Because? You have a developmentally-challenged desire to act out in a fashion that titillates you, which you then choose to call "fun".

It would be so "clever" if the subject required this much hashing over, but it doesn't, and you all know it doesn't. If you really want to be naughty, go ahead and do it. The real challenge to being naughty is ignoring the consequences, and going ahead and doing it, then bravely braving the result. But, I'm sure your naughtiness never extended to withstanding that professiona paddling that's sure to come of it.

Your boldness is a figment of your imaginations. The point is and always has been enduring the punishment when caught. Here you quibble about what getting caught is. I can hear the clucking. Bok Bok Bok.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Irisa Selenia
Doomheim
#164 - 2012-03-29 19:41:32 UTC
At least it has been established that encouraging suicide only carries a 30 day ban as punishment.

But then again this is from the same country that brought us Icesave, so no surprises there.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#165 - 2012-03-29 19:43:40 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.


And that sir was all a great many of us were after.

Thank you.

.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#166 - 2012-03-29 19:53:04 UTC
C Genix wrote:
Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


Well, in the event of any other play getting permabanned, the person who was griefed probably had insisted it and expressed issue to such. 30 days is suitable and matches the knowledge of the situation. There was instigation of hate/harassment, so a temp ban for rules violation. The other person didn't seem to be concerned any more and probably didn't care, as such an extended/permanent should not have been applied. But each their own opinions. When this started, I said 30 days since the person to whom the comments were directed to was not concerned about the issue.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2012-03-29 20:07:42 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


Well, in the event of any other play getting permabanned, the person who was griefed probably had insisted it and expressed issue to such. 30 days is suitable and matches the knowledge of the situation. There was instigation of hate/harassment, so a temp ban for rules violation. The other person didn't seem to be concerned any more and probably didn't care, as such an extended/permanent should not have been applied. But each their own opinions. When this started, I said 30 days since the person to whom the comments were directed to was not concerned about the issue.



He even defeated some bounty hunters I hear. Doing good IMO.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Mathias Hex
#168 - 2012-03-29 20:12:10 UTC
GM Homonoia wrote:
DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.


Basically what I got from this was...
Goonbait STOP being bitches and wasting perfectly good space on these forums!

Now will you please just go into the eve universe and blow **** up!!!

I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k.
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2012-03-29 20:35:22 UTC
So after reading all of GM Homonoia's replies, and the non-trash/fluff posts here, I'm left with a question.

Mittens, or any other hypothetical person in a CCP Sponsored event is considered in The Magic Circle, and as such, the TOS/EULA applies.

So what if someone did this at a non-sponsored event ? What if he said the exact same things just on youtube, and not Fanfest.. Or for some reason, on a News Network being interviewed about Eve ?

These are not CCP Events, nor are they in game, so The Magic Circle does not apply, and likewise, the EULA/TOS wouldn't.. so am I correct in understanding that if such actions were taken outside of CCP Events, no action would be taken in game ?

I think it's important to know where that line is drawn..
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#170 - 2012-03-29 20:43:42 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
This would be simple if everyone would behave as they know they should (in a fashion that keeps daddy from smackin' you in the back of the head, or makes mom reach for a two-by-four). But, you have to indulge in what you know is ill-mannered, uncivil and detestable behavior, so you need your own set of rules.

Then, of course (it naturally follows,) in search of that grey area where you can STILL behave like ill-bred baboons, you can't quite grasp the lines if someone tatooed them on your faces. Because? You have a developmentally-challenged desire to act out in a fashion that titillates you, which you then choose to call "fun".

It would be so "clever" if the subject required this much hashing over, but it doesn't, and you all know it doesn't. If you really want to be naughty, go ahead and do it. The real challenge to being naughty is ignoring the consequences, and going ahead and doing it, then bravely braving the result. But, I'm sure your naughtiness never extended to withstanding that professiona paddling that's sure to come of it.

Your boldness is a figment of your imaginations. The point is and always has been enduring the punishment when caught. Here you quibble about what getting caught is. I can hear the clucking. Bok Bok Bok.


Lets get it! Hahaaaaa

Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#171 - 2012-03-29 20:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Katarina Reid
As long as u benfit its not harassment if they die irl as a side effect doesent matter. U gank miners to push ore/ship prices up. U wanted to mine those roids. U want his bounty. U want to gain control of a high sec area and make people pay tax's. U want his loot. U want to make him quit the game to lower plex prices. the list goes on.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#172 - 2012-03-29 20:57:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


For clarifying if any changes in CCP's interpretation of griefing and harassment have occurred after these events.

I, for one, would hesitate slightly if I saw The Wiz in my sights with a fat bounty on his head after what has transpired... and in this game I shouldn't have to worry about all that.

Now I can rest assured that if some tart squeeks in local "Don't shoot, all of my possessions are in here. If I lose it I'll quit this game and probably my life" (as believe it or not has happened to me before), I can feel free to pull the trigger anyway and burn the pity card playing fool out of my sky.

However, now I will immediately follow up with a petition to CCP that includes the message to make sure that the individuals local authorities are alerrted. Partially to make sure that on the off chance he is somewhat serious he gets some help, but mostly so they can let him know that false claims of intent to commit suicide are not funny nor appropriate in any situation... and only serve to make it more difficult for those who are serious in their intent to be believed by others.

I trust that is sufficient clarification for you.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
C Genix
Genix Family
#173 - 2012-03-29 21:01:51 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


For clarifying if any changes in CCP's interpretation of griefing and harassment have occurred after these events.

I, for one, would hesitate slightly if I saw The Wiz in my sights with a fat bounty on his head after what has transpired... and in this game I shouldn't have to worry about all that.

Now I can rest assured that if some tart squeeks in local "Don't shoot, all of my possessions are in here. If I lose it I'll quit this game and probably my life" (as believe it or not has happened to me before), I can feel free to pull the trigger anyway and burn the pity card playing fool out of my sky.

However, now I will immediately follow up with a petition to CCP that includes the message to make sure that the individuals local authorities are alerrted. Partially to make sure that on the off chance he is somewhat serious he gets some help, but mostly so they can let him know that false claims of intent to commit suicide are not funny nor appropriate in any situation... and only serve to make it more difficult for those who are serious in their intent to be believed by others.

I trust that is sufficient clarification for you.


Yes you clearly have a corrupt moral compass and believe the 'local authrities' are gonna stop anyone grabbing a 9mm from there desk and blowing skull and blood on the wall...

You ARE a pathetic disonohorauble specimin as I first thought Ranger (IMO)
Panda Name
The Chatsubo
#174 - 2012-03-29 21:07:19 UTC
i keep reading the gm's name as "GM Homophobia".

petitioned.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2012-03-29 21:10:23 UTC
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


For clarifying if any changes in CCP's interpretation of griefing and harassment have occurred after these events.

I, for one, would hesitate slightly if I saw The Wiz in my sights with a fat bounty on his head after what has transpired... and in this game I shouldn't have to worry about all that.

Now I can rest assured that if some tart squeeks in local "Don't shoot, all of my possessions are in here. If I lose it I'll quit this game and probably my life" (as believe it or not has happened to me before), I can feel free to pull the trigger anyway and burn the pity card playing fool out of my sky.

However, now I will immediately follow up with a petition to CCP that includes the message to make sure that the individuals local authorities are alerrted. Partially to make sure that on the off chance he is somewhat serious he gets some help, but mostly so they can let him know that false claims of intent to commit suicide are not funny nor appropriate in any situation... and only serve to make it more difficult for those who are serious in their intent to be believed by others.

I trust that is sufficient clarification for you.


Yes you clearly have a corrupt moral compass and believe the 'local authrities' are gonna stop anyone grabbing a 9mm from there desk and blowing skull and blood on the wall...

You ARE a pathetic disonohorauble specimin as I first thought Ranger (IMO)


Wanna know what I'd do? I'd shoot him enough to make him cry, to say that I am bullying him and that he will kill himself if I don't stop and when there is just a tiny sliver left before he goes 'boom'. I'll stop and repair his ship, only to shoot at him again and again.

I'll even invite him to comms while I am dissecting his ships.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
C Genix
Genix Family
#176 - 2012-03-29 21:15:12 UTC
Alpheias wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


For clarifying if any changes in CCP's interpretation of griefing and harassment have occurred after these events.

I, for one, would hesitate slightly if I saw The Wiz in my sights with a fat bounty on his head after what has transpired... and in this game I shouldn't have to worry about all that.

Now I can rest assured that if some tart squeeks in local "Don't shoot, all of my possessions are in here. If I lose it I'll quit this game and probably my life" (as believe it or not has happened to me before), I can feel free to pull the trigger anyway and burn the pity card playing fool out of my sky.

However, now I will immediately follow up with a petition to CCP that includes the message to make sure that the individuals local authorities are alerrted. Partially to make sure that on the off chance he is somewhat serious he gets some help, but mostly so they can let him know that false claims of intent to commit suicide are not funny nor appropriate in any situation... and only serve to make it more difficult for those who are serious in their intent to be believed by others.

I trust that is sufficient clarification for you.


Yes you clearly have a corrupt moral compass and believe the 'local authrities' are gonna stop anyone grabbing a 9mm from there desk and blowing skull and blood on the wall...

You ARE a pathetic disonohorauble specimin as I first thought Ranger (IMO)


Wanna know what I'd do? I'd shoot him enough to make him cry, to say that I am bullying him and that he will kill himself if I don't stop and when there is just a tiny sliver left before he goes 'boom'. I'll stop and repair his ship, only to shoot at him again and again.

I'll even invite him to comms while I am dissecting his ships.


Riveting I'm sure.... thanks for sharing Roll
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#177 - 2012-03-29 21:19:53 UTC
C Genix wrote:
Alpheias wrote:


Wanna know what I'd do? I'd shoot him enough to make him cry, to say that I am bullying him and that he will kill himself if I don't stop and when there is just a tiny sliver left before he goes 'boom'. I'll stop and repair his ship, only to shoot at him again and again.

I'll even invite him to comms while I am dissecting his ships.


Riveting I'm sure.... thanks for sharing Roll


Not the reaction I wanted... SadSad

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#178 - 2012-03-29 21:22:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
C Genix wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Asking publicly for clarification is not a bad thing in light of the delicate natture of recent events.

Thank you GM Harmonia for offering that clarification.



Clarifying what exactly

That any other player would have been insta perma barred for such atrocities but as M gives Himlar the best reach rounds he wasnt?


For clarifying if any changes in CCP's interpretation of griefing and harassment have occurred after these events.

I, for one, would hesitate slightly if I saw The Wiz in my sights with a fat bounty on his head after what has transpired... and in this game I shouldn't have to worry about all that.

Now I can rest assured that if some tart squeeks in local "Don't shoot, all of my possessions are in here. If I lose it I'll quit this game and probably my life" (as believe it or not has happened to me before), I can feel free to pull the trigger anyway and burn the pity card playing fool out of my sky.

However, now I will immediately follow up with a petition to CCP that includes the message to make sure that the individuals local authorities are alerrted. Partially to make sure that on the off chance he is somewhat serious he gets some help, but mostly so they can let him know that false claims of intent to commit suicide are not funny nor appropriate in any situation... and only serve to make it more difficult for those who are serious in their intent to be believed by others.

I trust that is sufficient clarification for you.


Yes you clearly have a corrupt moral compass and believe the 'local authrities' are gonna stop anyone grabbing a 9mm from there desk and blowing skull and blood on the wall...

You ARE a pathetic disonohorauble specimin as I first thought Ranger (IMO)


Wow.

Now I have a corrupt moral compass because I play an internet spacehip game by the rules, and pass along information (as requested by the game devs) if someone says something in game that might cause concern.

If he is sincere, I have done more than most would to get him help.

If he is not, and I must point out anyone that engages in PVP in this game can likely pull out dozens of similar logs/EVE Mails of this nature, he deals with the hassle of his local authorities telling him stop crying wolf (as happened to that young man in Iceland a few weeks ago who did the exact same thing).

Nobody should feel constrained by the massive volume of crap spewwed in local/EVE mails/Convo's in this game to the point where they must stop playing it. It would be abused to a ludicrous degree and people would end up giving up in disgust.

Name another PVP oriented game where the players are told they should refrain from playing because an opponent claims they will suffer undue mental stress if the other person beats them.

I'll wait.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ai Shun
#179 - 2012-03-29 21:32:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:

How do you judge that?

Wait for a corpse to wash up somewhere?


6 years of hate mails sent my way and I still haven't topped myself.


Yeah, look at the vitriol directed at the Mittani - even from before this whole incident. He appears unfazed; probably because he can separate reality and a video game. Lian Nuren has a rather interesting piece on about Social Contracts and Politcal Manuevering in EVE Online. Well worth a read.
C Genix
Genix Family
#180 - 2012-03-29 21:36:02 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
TLDR worthless silver tongued attempted justification of corrupt action


Blink