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wormhole scanning: how to find exits faster?
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Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-29 14:49:25 UTC
i've been running ops in WHs for some months, and i just finished training an alt solely for finding and selling WHs.

i'm familiar with the concepts of statics within a hole, and i am quite fast at the basic scanning itself. that is, it usually takes me a minute or less to get a firm lock on whatever is out there. in a hole with a ton of sigs, however, this still can take a while to scan everything down to determine what's an outbound hole and what's not.

i'm aware of the DSP guide for determining what types of sigs are what based on their sig radius, but i was under the impression that only works with deep space probes. the alt doesn't have astro V yet, so i can't use them. is there an equivalent guide for standard probes as well? if not, is there a way to find those exit WHs faster than how i'm doing it now?

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Sidrun
Life sucks then you die Ltd.
#2 - 2012-03-29 15:06:52 UTC
I would like to know this as well. I haven't been able to come across with a foolproof method of determining a sig's likely type, based upon its initial sig strength.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#3 - 2012-03-29 15:28:25 UTC
The definitive guide for faster probing:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6457&find=unread

I don't use that as I don't have the skills to use DSPs, but I have through experience learned to spot likely positions for wormholes. There's no real science to it, but in a field of 15 signatures it's rare that I don't get a wormhole on my second or third signature (when I'm looking for exits).

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-03-29 15:29:41 UTC  |  Edited by: St Mio
You can use Core or preferably Combats instead, it's just that your results in game versus the results on the chart will be different by quite a bit, whereas if you use DSPs it'll only be off by +-0.02%.

It's most certainly still doable, and as most veteran WH dwellers will tell you, with practice, you'll be able to tell which sigs are your exits without even using the guide/chart.

Remember, for your initial scan, always set your probe to the max range it can go, and try to put it in a central point (preferably the star), so that your results between sigs will have as little variance as possible.
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-29 15:32:30 UTC
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:
The definitive guide for faster probing:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6457&find=unread

I don't use that as I don't have the skills to use DSPs, but I have through experience learned to spot likely positions for wormholes. There's no real science to it, but in a field of 15 signatures it's rare that I don't get a wormhole on my second or third signature (when I'm looking for exits).


yeah, i mentioned the DSP guide in my first post.

i usually tend to hit on a hole in the first few, but i'm OCD and want to make sure i get them all =) what tips would you offer for looking for them? usually i throw down my seven-probe grid, get a basic idea for what's out there, and do my best to get multiple sigs in each scan so that i'll hopefully get enough return to filter out the gravs and ladars first rather than later.

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Splodger
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-03-29 15:37:45 UTC
Wingmate wrote:
i've been running ops in WHs for some months, and i just finished training an alt solely for finding and selling WHs.

i'm familiar with the concepts of statics within a hole, and i am quite fast at the basic scanning itself. that is, it usually takes me a minute or less to get a firm lock on whatever is out there. in a hole with a ton of sigs, however, this still can take a while to scan everything down to determine what's an outbound hole and what's not.

i'm aware of the DSP guide for determining what types of sigs are what based on their sig radius, but i was under the impression that only works with deep space probes. the alt doesn't have astro V yet, so i can't use them. is there an equivalent guide for standard probes as well? if not, is there a way to find those exit WHs faster than how i'm doing it now?


yea use Wormnav.com and register, this will enable you to set up your current skills and for each wormhole give you a percentage for the current static.

requires api for registration.
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#7 - 2012-03-29 19:54:53 UTC
There was a nice guide on k162 blog.

It boils down to setting probes at 4au and placing your "diamond" on a celestial. Any results 8%-15% are probably wh's.

You can ID a WH like this by zeroing down on the result and going to 2au. 1au or .5au to get a bookmark.

gravs and mags will be hgher % than wh and radar/ladar will be lower %

That's about it.

How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
Wingmate
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-29 19:56:07 UTC
hey, that's awesome. i'll test that out.

thanks kush =)

i make spreadsheets for pretty cheap. contact me for more info.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=197433
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2012-03-29 20:40:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Substantia Nigra
Knowing the specs of the system is important. Pretty well whatever wormhole you’re looking for there will possibly be other objects with the same ‘size’ as seen by your probes.

K162s are honking big things, wherever they come from, but as the other wormholes lead to more and more ‘dangerous’ destinations their size reduces. So a low end ladar may have the same first-scan ‘size’ as a K162 or hisec-static, while a mag site may have the same size as a nullsec or C5-static. Tools like wormnav and eveeye are very useful if you’re moving around and scanning different systems. Unless you’re only looking for K162s and hisec-WHs it’s important to ID the system and know what type(s) of wormhole it’s likely to have. Often you will find yourself looking for WHs of different sizes and you may end up having to ID, at least to the resolution of whether it’s ladar / radar / grav / mag or unknown, all the sigs anyway.

When I am dealing with just a couple of sigs I use a standard diamond / square pattern of RSS core probes with a central deep space probe. The main purpose of the DS-probe is to tell me about any new ships or sigs/anoms that spawn in the system. When I am having to sort thru a heap of sigs I use a concentric 8-probe pattern of RSS cores … by far the quickest way I have found to sift the contents of a crowded system.

_____________________________

Don't know how this will come over, but I'll try and 'draw' those patterns ....

Basic diamond. Planar pattern of core probes (or could be combat probes) with central deep space probe. Range of core probes adjusted down as you home-in on target. Half-range point for core/combat probes overlaps at centre of pattern and range of DS-probe usually 256AU.

...........................
.... C.............C....
...........................
...........DS...........
...........................
.... C.............C....
...........................


Concentric mass ‘sorting’ pattern. Planar pattern of core / combat probes with 3 x range different between inner and outer ring (e.g. start with 1AU and 8AU). Half-range point for all probes overlaps at center of pattern. Depending on scan strength can get instant fix on many sites, and instant-ID on most. For smaller sites will often need to be stepped down (i.e. 0.5AU and 4AU).

Just centre it on sun for first scan (most celestials are near to the sun) then subsequently on the outlying planets as you sift thru the sites.


............................................................
.............................C.............................
............................................................
............................................................
............................................................
......................C..............C....................
............................................................
....C.................................................C…
............................................................
......................C.............C.....................
............................................................
............................................................
............................................................
.............................C.............................
............................................................

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-29 21:22:58 UTC
All those guides are well and good but it just comes down to what kind of static you have.
Statics basically come in 2 categories: very easy to scan and very hard to scan.

Basically just figure out which you have and either start probing your sigs from the easiest first or the hardest first accordingly.
Doing easiest first will give you all the K162s very early on which is an added bonus.

I've never bothered with deep space probes.
Here's how I probe:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8n8KamI0Ag

Basically it's the 8 probe pattern Substantia Nigra mentioned.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-30 12:31:11 UTC
I like also to mention that
often wh signatures are further away from planets than other sigs
and that, as wh signatures often dont last as long as the others, signature with different ID pattern are often wormhole sigs.
Given signatures like:
EDG..
DDG..
KDG..
HIJ..

HIJ is probably a wormhole sig.
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-03-30 12:39:01 UTC
Sola Mercury wrote:
I like also to mention that
often wh signatures are further away from planets than other sigs
and that, as wh signatures often dont last as long as the others, signature with different ID pattern are often wormhole sigs.
Given signatures like:
EDG..
DDG..
KDG..
HIJ..

HIJ is probably a wormhole sig.

To elaborate on what Sola Mecury said, what happens after downtime is that, while all the sigs from before downtime are in the same place, they get assigned new Sig IDs.

The naming process behind the scenes then visits each solar system, region by region, and assigns them a semi random sig ID. I say say semi random, because while the number half of the sig ID is random, the alphabetic part seems to be assigned incrementally, sig by sig, system by system, region by region.

So right after DT you'll see most of the sigs in a system with the same last two letters, e.g. ?DG, while most of the sigs in a region will have the same last letter, e.g. ??G and moving onto ??H when G is exhausted.

Why this is important, is because you have:
Wormholes and Gravimetrics, that remain even when other people visit them (until exhausted ofc)
and Radars, Mags and Combats, that despawn after someone runs them.

Thus the wormholes (and gravs) that received Sig IDs at DT, will keep those Sig IDs, whereas the Radars, Mags and Combats that constantly keep respawning, get new Sig IDs from the Sig ID numbering process.
Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-30 13:17:29 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Sola Mercury wrote:
I like also to mention that
often wh signatures are further away from planets than other sigs
and that, as wh signatures often dont last as long as the others, signature with different ID pattern are often wormhole sigs.
Given signatures like:
EDG..
DDG..
KDG..
HIJ..

HIJ is probably a wormhole sig.

To elaborate on what Sola Mecury said, what happens after downtime is that, while all the sigs from before downtime are in the same place, they get assigned new Sig IDs.

The naming process behind the scenes then visits each solar system, region by region, and assigns them a semi random sig ID. I say say semi random, because while the number half of the sig ID is random, the alphabetic part seems to be assigned incrementally, sig by sig, system by system, region by region.

So right after DT you'll see most of the sigs in a system with the same last two letters, e.g. ?DG, while most of the sigs in a region will have the same last letter, e.g. ??G and moving onto ??H when G is exhausted.

Why this is important, is because you have:
Wormholes and Gravimetrics, that remain even when other people visit them (until exhausted ofc)
and Radars, Mags and Combats, that despawn after someone runs them.

Thus the wormholes (and gravs) that received Sig IDs at DT, will keep those Sig IDs, whereas the Radars, Mags and Combats that constantly keep respawning, get new Sig IDs from the Sig ID numbering process.


Given a wh system where the statics are activated most of the time ( not uncommon in systems with a highsec static)
those statics will despawn after give/take 24 hours.
A static wh that despawns causes the moment it goes poof, another wh signature to be generated.
This signature will have a different ID pattern than the sg-ID-patterns generated right after downtime.

Now, ladar, grav mag and radar sigs and sites tend to last much longer than just a day. Many of them last 4 days after activation. And thus new sigs are not generated that often. The total number of sites of that type has to be considered of corse.