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What are some hidden gems in starting an eve business?

Author
WhiteWhiskey
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-29 16:07:36 UTC
What I am considering is what are some of the market areas that offer the best return? Working from the blueprint stage up, purchasing raw materials, and taking time into consideration? And let's say it's about a 5 man crew. Strictly going into manufacturing, not selling copies mind you. Would love to hear any suggestions from real professionals. Thanx.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#2 - 2012-03-29 16:18:47 UTC
WhiteWhiskey wrote:
What I am considering is what are some of the market areas that offer the best return? Working from the blueprint stage up, purchasing raw materials, and taking time into consideration? And let's say it's about a 5 man crew. Strictly going into manufacturing, not selling copies mind you. Would love to hear any suggestions from real professionals. Thanx.


I'll say it before someone else

Learn to spreadsheet Lol

If someone had a veritable goldmine by manufacturing something, what are the chances that they would share that info, since the more people that make the same mega profitable item as you, the less your profits will be.

Have a look at Isk Per Hour and work things out.

The only bit of essential advice is Production Efficiency 5 is a must on any building character, as well as someone with good trade skills.
WhiteWhiskey
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2012-03-29 16:27:42 UTC
I understand this...I was just hoping for a little advice. I don't expect for someone to handout there business model on the forums. I was saying like....oh tools offers some good gains vs. ship component building. But I will take your advice and check out the page. Thanx.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#4 - 2012-03-29 16:37:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
WhiteWhiskey wrote:
I understand this...I was just hoping for a little advice. I don't expect for someone to handout there business model on the forums. I was saying like....oh tools offers some good gains vs. ship component building. But I will take your advice and check out the page. Thanx.


Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.

Check the profitability of everything that moves in a reasonable volume. The more you check, the more you earn.

Make sure that you pay yourself for your efforts. A 10 slot manufacturing account requires 67k/hour to buy a PLEX, make sure to always earn more than that. Also, two Production Efficiency IV, Mass Production IV, Industry IV alts decrease the requirement to 33k/hour and only take about 6 days each to make.
Emma Royd
Maddled Gommerils
#5 - 2012-03-29 17:25:34 UTC
I didn't mean to come over as arrogant or anything :)

Some tips:
Start small, buy BPC's like Aurel says, but also buy things like Ammo BPO's (work out which sell best where) and get them in for research (unless you've got access to pos labs, you may have to wait a bit for the research, but scout out low-sec station labs, see how busy the systems are, and ninja them in Blink

Don't lay all your eggs in one basket, but if you find something that sells well for you, then consider buying another research, I've got at least 5 of some of the ammo ones so I can either churn more out in a week, or make a smaller quantity faster to get the mineral investment on the market quicker.

If you can, get standings with the station you want to sell at, it all helps with the costs, but don't make it a priority, it's a nice thing but not essential.

Don't be disappointed if you're wallet doesn't leap up straight away, but be concerned if it starts dropping.
How you want to work your initial investment is up to you, but learn where your isk goes, and keep an eye on it, it's easy to lose track when you're buying minerals in to build off.


erm, apart from that, enjoy it, and don't lose the fact that eve is a game, not a job :)

Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#6 - 2012-03-29 17:39:28 UTC
Oh, another thing is that it's reasonably cheap to buy a corp with high enough standing for a highsec POS (about 135M) and a small tower costs 5M/day in fuel and can support some research and production - at 0.75 time multiplier, helping your ISK/hour greatly.

It might be a while until you're ready for that, though.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-03-29 18:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
The HeartBreak of T2 Ship Production.

But Fuel Blocks are a Bonanza Big smile

It changes all the time though.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#8 - 2012-03-29 18:02:29 UTC
Aurel Svenson wrote:

Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.




This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#9 - 2012-03-29 18:07:03 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Aurel Svenson wrote:

Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.




This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter.


I hope for your sake that you're not a manufacturer. :)
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#10 - 2012-03-29 18:22:36 UTC
Well I'm a manufacturer and I have to say it tweaked the needle on my nonsense meter a little too.

I'm not saying BPCs (for manufacturing, rather than invention) are a *bad* idea, and certainly not a bad idea in all circumstances but bearing in mind that margins on a very good chunk of T1 is very slim one often finds that BPC cost effectively eats all (or even more) of your profit.

Generally I'd say that if a BPO is too expensive at a given stage in career then look for cheaper BPOs rather than go straight to BPCs - the profit per slot per day does not always correlate with the cost of the BPO, and quite often the reverse is true.

Naturally I'd consider these rough rules of thumb, the only sure fire answer is as already suggested: lrn2 spreadsheet.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#11 - 2012-03-29 18:25:04 UTC
Aurel Svenson wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Aurel Svenson wrote:

Use BPCs you purchase from others, in most cases. BPOs are too expensive and inflexible to start.




This is the part that registered on the Nonsense Meter.


I hope for your sake that you're not a manufacturer. :)



Emma Royd wrote:


Start small, buy BPC's like Aurel says, but also buy things like Ammo BPO's (work out which sell best where) and get them in for research



THIS.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#12 - 2012-03-29 18:29:40 UTC
Bpos are hit or miss. Ammo, nice... A retriever bpo... Pass.

As for what to make, look into areas where most people do not venture. For examply, cynosural field generators can sell well near a nul sec boarder but would be useless in the middle of hi sec. Also, a select few bpos need additional skills to manufacture, such as mobile warp bubble. Avoid those if you do not have time to skill up, but if you do have the time it may help. Also, if you have people running missions, start salvaging and pick up rig bpos.

Also, you need to ask yourself the key indy question... Are you in it for the fun or the isk? If for the isk, do your numbers each day,plan out the best profit items and keep checking the market for any changes. If you are in.it for the fun, you can do the numbers less often, but try to stick to a niche you like. I happen to enjoy producing stealth bombers. I could make more isk per hour, but I like being a ship trader.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#13 - 2012-03-29 18:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
The problem is that it's still a heavy investment. He loses those research slots for weeks, in which time he might want to work on something that's actually profitable (which he doesn't know precisely at the moment); or if buying, he's losing useful capital. I'd say use BPCs until you know the market; if you're at the "ask the forums" stage it's too early to start long term investments (POS is probably unwise too, but it has faster returns if you're capable of putting it to use... and allows you to make BPOs much easier).

(Also sorry for being rude.)
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#14 - 2012-03-29 18:41:19 UTC
Cool. It just seemed like a warning to avoid BPO's at all cost !

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Elsa Nietchize
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-03-29 18:47:42 UTC
Half the fun of manufacturing is the selling part (for me, anyways). That said, find something that sells real fast, ammo is perfect). It'll sell as fast as you can build it. The profit margins are nearly non-existent but it's fun. While you're Buying (materials), building and selling, start doing research on other things to build. Don't jump into anything though. Make sure you know what you're getting into before you commit. The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month. My own guideline is quantity over quality. If you find something with both, you're rich.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#16 - 2012-03-29 18:58:23 UTC
Ammo can have a reasonable profit margin. The problem is the isk/hour, which is, in the end, more important.

I can keep 10 lines running, churning out small ammo with a 100% profit margin on the invested isk.
Or I can do it with large ammo, with only a 30% margin. However, I invest substantially more into it, making more in the end.

If you want to know what will move, just check the market history in your region.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#17 - 2012-03-29 19:18:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month.


Hello, Bustards ! Big smile

(fell for them a year ago)

(also, how did so many people steal my shirt ?) LolLol

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Suni Khan
#18 - 2012-03-29 19:57:44 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Elsa Nietchize wrote:
The easiest trap is finding something with a 100% profit margin only to later realize it only sells once a month.


Hello, Bustards ! Big smile

(fell for them a year ago)

(also, how did so many people steal my shirt ?) LolLol


Gonna buy one myself for the hell of it now xD
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-03-29 21:29:39 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Bpos are hit or miss. Ammo, nice... A retriever bpo... Pass.

As for what to make, look into areas where most people do not venture. For examply, cynosural field generators can sell well near a nul sec boarder but would be useless in the middle of hi sec. Also, a select few bpos need additional skills to manufacture, such as mobile warp bubble. Avoid those if you do not have time to skill up, but if you do have the time it may help. Also, if you have people running missions, start salvaging and pick up rig bpos.

Also, you need to ask yourself the key indy question... Are you in it for the fun or the isk? If for the isk, do your numbers each day,plan out the best profit items and keep checking the market for any changes. If you are in.it for the fun, you can do the numbers less often, but try to stick to a niche you like. I happen to enjoy producing stealth bombers. I could make more isk per hour, but I like being a ship trader.


It's always nice to hear that there are others who make certain things because, for whatever reason, they LIKE making them. I don't make stuff that's a loss or a particular pain in the ass, of course, but also there are items that may be more profitable than anything I make that I just don't care to look into. I enjoy making stuff that helps people blow up ships and sell it in pirate-y areas and profit matters, but it's not the only thing that does Lol
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#20 - 2012-03-29 21:34:06 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Ammo can have a reasonable profit margin. The problem is the isk/hour, which is, in the end, more important.

I can keep 10 lines running, churning out small ammo with a 100% profit margin on the invested isk.
Or I can do it with large ammo, with only a 30% margin. However, I invest substantially more into it, making more in the end.

If you want to know what will move, just check the market history in your region.


Also, for a lot of small stuff like that it may be easier to find sources of it that have sell orders for close to manufacturing cost, and then just re-sell in different locations with a significant markup. It's what I've started doing and while the pure ISK incoming from deals like that is less than what I would get by making and selling, it's not a whole lot less, and I have a whole lot more production lines free for other stuff.
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