These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Science & Industry

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

T1 Ship building v Mineral profitability
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Rutherford Rainman
The Actual US Department of Energy
#21 - 2012-03-28 03:40:12 UTC
It depends on how high your expectations are, with perfect skills and researched BPOs I would guess you could make a comfortable living making ships. Thing is if you have perfect skills and researched BPOs you could do much better than most T1 ships have to offer. If you look at it, ships are a fairly safe bet due to the near constant consumption of ships, but because of this most also have razor thin margins. Also a good thing to consider is transportation, without a freighter or an Itty IV you might have trouble getting your products around.
Page Starcaster
Blue Angels Mining Company
#22 - 2012-03-28 17:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Page Starcaster
Aurel Svenson wrote:
I have to say that at least around Jita, I have yet to view a ship worth making. Many are well below the cost of their mats, and most of the rest simply take too long for their level of profit.


Although it is true it is hard to find a ship worth making in Jita, It is absolutely not true that there are ships in Jita for sale below the cost of there mats. Buy orders maybe, but no sell orders. A ship sold below the cost of mats means that someone with perfect reprocessing skills like my main could buy those ships and reprocess them at a profit. I have a spreadsheet that auto calculates the mineral value of the most common T1 ships and compares to Jita sell orders for that ship. If any ships become profitable to reprocess, than they get flagged. Many do this, and any time a sell order gets posted with even a slight profit from reprocessing it, it is gone in seconds

If you are trying to build ships by buying all minerals from Jita sell orders than yes, Sometimes the cost of mats is higher or equal to the lowest sell order. but still above the value of the minerals when reprocessed. But generally they are just slightly above. If you source your minerals elsewhere or post buy orders for less than the lowest sell order you can increase your profit margin. This is however trade profit not manufacturing profit. With profit margins so tight in Jita on both manufacturing and trading you can generally make a decent profit by combining them. I.E. some trade profit gain from trading to get cheaper mats, and some manufacturing profit from building the ship. for this to work you need really good manufacturing skills, trading skills, and perfect BPO's

With perfect skills and perfect BPO you can make 2-5% manufacturing profit. By sourcing you mats and using buy orders rather than buying from sell orders you can make an extra 5-10% trade profit giving you up to 15% profit on the total project. So say a battleship sells for about 100 mil you can make up to 15 mil profit. To make loads of isk you need to produce loads of ships, at least 100 ships to make 1.5 bil profit. That is a load of logistics to generate that amount of production and keep supplied with mats. But there are players who do it and enjoy it

There are far easier ways to make 1.5 bil isk. If you really want to enjoy your time in EVE, do what you enjoy doing, and find a way to make a profit while doing it.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#23 - 2012-03-28 18:03:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
Economics says that the value of minerals is what you can get selling them on the market. Since you can move minerals by sell orders reasonably quickly the most relevant number is the sell price of minerals.

And reprocessing won't do, because the BPC (I assume this to be the most common source of ships and I treat that as a material cost) is lost forever.

There's also an opportunity cost to buying and using a BPO though I can't readily quantify that. It takes a long time to return the 1B spent on a battleship BPO and that money could be working for you otherwise.
Ave Volta
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2012-03-29 03:18:03 UTC
I'll just say that I've been making a killing off of T1 hulls in general the last 6 months or so.

Black Frog Logistics - Lowsec/Nullsec Logistics Services. Join ingame channel 'Black Frog' for more info.
Suni Khan
#25 - 2012-03-29 06:14:52 UTC
1 bil bpo is an investment you dont need to make it back. Only the time spent researching the thing. You can sell it off later for 1bil or even a bit higher.

You just need the initial capital.
That being said, take a look at the cruiser market.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#26 - 2012-03-29 09:04:51 UTC
Page Starcaster wrote:


With perfect skills and perfect BPO you can make 2-5% manufacturing profit. By sourcing you mats and using buy orders rather than buying from sell orders you can make an extra 5-10% trade profit giving you up to 15% profit on the total project. So say a battleship sells for about 100 mil you can make up to 15 mil profit. To make loads of isk you need to produce loads of ships, at least 100 ships to make 1.5 bil profit. That is a load of logistics to generate that amount of production and keep supplied with mats. But there are players who do it and enjoy i



This analysis depends on your capital amount, and your login length/frequency, and your willingness to trade outside of minerals and finished t1 objects. ie tritanium with a 1% spread is terrible for me to trade - after fees I would see 0.4% Zydrine at times can yield 30%, but I have too much capital, and not enough time/desire to stay in-region and 0.01, so I cannot apply my whole capital base to zydrine

A moderate amount of zydrine mixed into great chunks of pyerite and tritanium can absorb my entire capital base, is unlikely to move grossly against my position (ie zydrine can move 10% at both ends of the spread pretty quick, but trit won't go anywhere fast), and can produce objects with 15% profit margin over my whole capital base, and will be acquired at least 8x the rate (by isk value) than zydrine alone can be, and I will not have to compete all day to keep my orders afloat and incidently kill the spread on what I am trading.

Which is why I value manufacturing conversion more highly than your analysis does.
Jenghiz
Neo Brigade
#27 - 2012-03-29 09:21:13 UTC
Depending on how you value the minerals and time you spent mining you can make a small profit on T1 ships. The best way to make a bit more on them is to take them to a smaller market zone. For example I believe there is fighting in the delve going on. Find out the most frequently lost ships and then stock some in that area. you can add a convenience premium to the ships since they are close and less time lost reshipping the better. In manufacturing there are more profitable ways to make isk than T1 ship building though. That being said i do build some myself from time to time but only when I can mke a modest or better profit or if its for a friend.
Cayden Xios
#28 - 2012-03-29 13:53:09 UTC
OP, look up Isk Per Hour (IPH). It is an extremely detailed programming that may look overwhelming, but it's easier than it looks. Just give yourself some time to figure it out, because it is VERY powerful.
Suni Khan
#29 - 2012-03-29 14:15:39 UTC
Jenghiz wrote:
Depending on how you value the minerals and time you spent mining you can make a small profit on T1 ships. The best way to make a bit more on them is to take them to a smaller market zone. For example I believe there is fighting in the delve going on. Find out the most frequently lost ships and then stock some in that area. you can add a convenience premium to the ships since they are close and less time lost reshipping the better. In manufacturing there are more profitable ways to make isk than T1 ship building though. That being said i do build some myself from time to time but only when I can mke a modest or better profit or if its for a friend.


Oh yes becouse minirals you mine yourself are free... Always value them at jita prices. If the ship you are making out of these minirals is worth less then it Is not worth making! You could have made more isk just selling the raw minirals.

Also selling in another hub is trading profit and not manufacturing profit.

I can give a better response when I am home from work.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#30 - 2012-03-29 14:55:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
Suni Khan wrote:
1 bil bpo is an investment you dont need to make it back. Only the time spent researching the thing. You can sell it off later for 1bil or even a bit higher.


It does not increase in value with time. Cash does, for a manufacturer. Therefore there's an opportunity cost to having a BPO and you need to make that back.

For me I earn about 8%/day on cash so on a billion ISK BPO I'd need to be earning 80M/day off of it to make it worthwhile... A cruiser takes about 3 hours to build so it'd need to be earning 10M/ship. [Probably not typical results (and probably won't last), but it illustrates the point].

(And from this example it can also be seen that as capital increases and daily profit% increases, BPOs make more sense!)

Edit: hmm, I checked the prices of T1 ships shortly after the price increases. The market for ship sales probably hadn't responded yet which is partly why so few ships were profitable.
Previous page12