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No More griefing in Eve

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My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-03-29 14:26:31 UTC  |  Edited by: My Neutral Toon
(Edit: If griefing was illegal in-game, the Guiding Hands corp would have all been perma banned, but no, they were heralded as heroes of the sandbox, and highlighted at this past FanFest)

In light of recent events, it seems too many people are becoming upset about griefers in EVE

(Regardless of how youi feel about mittens, GSF or CFC. Leave those opinions out of this thread)


I remember a day, when griefing was a large part of what made EVE what it was. Apprently more and more people are getting upset about getting griefed (usually you have to do something in game that allows the griefing to continue, you are always free to warp off or go somewhere else)


As long as you don't maliciously harm the person IRL or out of game. Hack their account or can flip in a newbie system, then its all legal in game.

If you are really upset about the cut-throat nature of eve, you should go back to playing WoW. When you sign up for EVE it say "EVE is hard". If you had EVER read ANY articles about the game EVER, you would know that griefing, backstabbing and the like are all part of this game.


  • THE NEW CMO HIGHLIGHTED THIS AT FANFEST!!!!!


Don't try to turn EVE in to Wow-in-space.


EDIT / UPDATE:

This makes me feel better, from another thread about harrasment policy:

GM Homonoia wrote:
DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-03-29 14:28:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
My Neutral Toon wrote:
In light of recent events, it seems too many people are becoming upset about griefers in EVE

(Regardless of how youi feel about mittens, GSF or CFC. Leave those opinions out of this thread)


I remember a day, when griefing was a large part of what made EVE what it was. Apprently more and more people are getting upset about getting griefed (usually you have to do something in game that allows the griefing to continue, you are always free to warp off or go somewhere else)


As long as you don't maliciously harm the person IRL or out of game. Hack their account or can flip in a newbie system, then its all legal in game.

If you are really upset about the cut-throat nature of eve, you should go back to playing WoW. When you sign up for EVE it say "EVE is hard". If you had EVER read ANY articles about the game EVER, you would know that griefing, backstabbing and the like are all part of this game.


  • THE NEW CMO HIGHLIGHTED THIS AT FANFEST!!!!!


Don't try to turn EVE in to Wow-in-space.


i tried to do a search for grief(ing) in the eula and it turned up nothing, so perhaps they need to clearly define it somewhere...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-29 14:31:27 UTC  |  Edited by: My Neutral Toon
Ris Dnalor wrote:
My Neutral Toon wrote:
In light of recent events, it seems too many people are becoming upset about griefers in EVE

(Regardless of how youi feel about mittens, GSF or CFC. Leave those opinions out of this thread)


I remember a day, when griefing was a large part of what made EVE what it was. Apprently more and more people are getting upset about getting griefed (usually you have to do something in game that allows the griefing to continue, you are always free to warp off or go somewhere else)


As long as you don't maliciously harm the person IRL or out of game. Hack their account or can flip in a newbie system, then its all legal in game.

If you are really upset about the cut-throat nature of eve, you should go back to playing WoW. When you sign up for EVE it say "EVE is hard". If you had EVER read ANY articles about the game EVER, you would know that griefing, backstabbing and the like are all part of this game.


  • THE NEW CMO HIGHLIGHTED THIS AT FANFEST!!!!!


Don't try to turn EVE in to Wow-in-space.


i tried to do a search for grief(ing) in the eula and it turned up nothing, so perhaps they need to clearly define it somewhere...



Griefing IS DEFINED in the Evelopedia. Thus, it is part of the game

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Grief_play

The only thing it says in regard to taking action is

"At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. "


This line worries me. At it is DIRECT CONTRAST to the Eve I signed up for.

If this is so, half the game should be banned. There are entire highsec alliances that are deticated to griefing players. I used to do it all the time. The closets thing toa "warning" we ever received was "dont can flip in noobie systems"

CCP has gone soft because they have to answer to Sony now.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#4 - 2012-03-29 14:32:17 UTC
Eve has always encouraged play styles that would make other MMOs' willies shrivel up like a stack of dimes. The sudden calls to an all griefing stink more than a little of injured rectum. The Facade of righteous fury of the Mittani's uncouth commentary has quite a few cracks through which one can see an underlying current of players who do not desire to play EVE as it is, but instead desire to alter Eve to suit their tastes, like watering down a fine rum by mixing it with Mr. Pibb to make it more palatable.

A waste of good rum, and a waste of a good game.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2012-03-29 14:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ris Dnalor
My Neutral Toon wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:
My Neutral Toon wrote:
In light of recent events, it seems too many people are becoming upset about griefers in EVE

(Regardless of how youi feel about mittens, GSF or CFC. Leave those opinions out of this thread)


I remember a day, when griefing was a large part of what made EVE what it was. Apprently more and more people are getting upset about getting griefed (usually you have to do something in game that allows the griefing to continue, you are always free to warp off or go somewhere else)


As long as you don't maliciously harm the person IRL or out of game. Hack their account or can flip in a newbie system, then its all legal in game.

If you are really upset about the cut-throat nature of eve, you should go back to playing WoW. When you sign up for EVE it say "EVE is hard". If you had EVER read ANY articles about the game EVER, you would know that griefing, backstabbing and the like are all part of this game.


  • THE NEW CMO HIGHLIGHTED THIS AT FANFEST!!!!!


Don't try to turn EVE in to Wow-in-space.


i tried to do a search for grief(ing) in the eula and it turned up nothing, so perhaps they need to clearly define it somewhere...



Griefing IS DEFINED in the Evelopedia. Thus, it is part of the game

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Grief_play

The only thing it says in regard to taking action is

"At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. "


This line worries me. At it is DIRECT CONTRAST to the Eve I signed up for.

If this is so, half the game should be banned. There are entire highsec alliances that are deticated to griefing players. I used to do it all the time. The closets thing toa "warning" we ever received was "dont can flip in noobie systems"

CCP has gone soft because they have to answer to Sony now.


i have to read the wiki now? gah. ( thanks for the link, though )

on another note, if I go to a system and see someone has set up a small low-sec market and "priced everything silly-low because he just wants to supply cheap stuff for the neighbors" -- am I ruining his gameplay fun and thus griefing him when I turn around buy up everything he's built and put it back on the market at triple the price? What if i do this repeatedly, for days, weeks, months, until he gives up? Is this any different that blowing up someones fleet of mackinaws? *sigh*

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Lifelongnoob
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-29 14:37:14 UTC
Quote:
CCP has gone soft because they have to answer to Sony now.


dont worry sony will be out of business in a few years if they go ahead and plan to release this Sony Playstation 4 (Orbis)

no backward compatability with the ps3 and no longer allowed to play used copies of games.
Minabunny
Bogus Brothers Corporation
#7 - 2012-03-29 14:37:40 UTC
WoW references are getting so burned out. There were many games before the release of Warcraft and have been many after. You can freely kill people in open world pvp areas of Warcraft. Just because their mechanics are 'easy' does not mean that players in that game cant 'grief'.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-03-29 14:38:52 UTC
Minabunny wrote:
WoW references are getting so burned out. There were many games before the release of Warcraft and have been many after. You can freely kill people in open world pvp areas of Warcraft. Just because their mechanics are 'easy' does not mean that players in that game cant 'grief'.


Griefing is all too common in WoW. You need to figure out who's a **** before anything rare drops or they might steal it just to sell it for 1% of its value to an NPC.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Nefertari IX
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-29 14:38:56 UTC
Ris Dnalor wrote:


on another note, if I go to a system and see someone has set up a small low-sec market and "priced everything silly-low because he just wants to supply cheap stuff for the neighbors" -- am I ruining his gameplay fun and thus griefing him when I turn around buy up everything he's built and put it back on the market at triple the price? What if i do this repeatedly, for days, weeks, months, until he gives up? Is this any different that blowing up someones fleet of mackinaws? *sigh*


I don't think buying all his stuff is griefing him.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2012-03-29 14:40:01 UTC
Nefertari IX wrote:
Ris Dnalor wrote:


on another note, if I go to a system and see someone has set up a small low-sec market and "priced everything silly-low because he just wants to supply cheap stuff for the neighbors" -- am I ruining his gameplay fun and thus griefing him when I turn around buy up everything he's built and put it back on the market at triple the price? What if i do this repeatedly, for days, weeks, months, until he gives up? Is this any different that blowing up someones fleet of mackinaws? *sigh*


I don't think buying all his stuff is griefing him.


/emote had someone threaten to kill me for doing it once :) just sayin...

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-03-29 14:40:06 UTC
Minabunny wrote:
WoW references are getting so burned out. There were many games before the release of Warcraft and have been many after. You can freely kill people in open world pvp areas of Warcraft. Just because their mechanics are 'easy' does not mean that players in that game cant 'grief'.



My best friend plays wow, i've been trying to convert him for years.

He wont do it because EVE is too hard, and he kept losing his stuff when he tried to play.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#12 - 2012-03-29 14:40:51 UTC
My Neutral Toon wrote:


"At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. "


This line worries me. At it is DIRECT CONTRAST to the Eve I signed up for.



Oh get lost in a WH. That line has been there for a long, long time.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#13 - 2012-03-29 14:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Ris Dnalor wrote:

on another note, if I go to a system and see someone has set up a small low-sec market and "priced everything silly-low because he just wants to supply cheap stuff for the neighbors" -- am I ruining his gameplay fun and thus griefing him when I turn around buy up everything he's built and put it back on the market at triple the price? What if i do this repeatedly, for days, weeks, months, until he gives up? Is this any different that blowing up someones fleet of mackinaws? *sigh*



Then you gave him his requested ISK for those products. You can do with them what you will.

This was not a very good example at all as it is not griefing in anyway.

Pricing your own like items at a lower price than his...repeatedly, as he adjusts lower and lower......that's getting there but still no banana.

Besides, players put up for low price in Low Sec stations pretty much only to lure noobs, then gank them upon station exit, not to 'help the neighbors'.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-03-29 14:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: My Neutral Toon
OP UPDATED


FROM CCP GM:

Griefing is OKAY in-game, not okay out-of-game


Don't Like it?

Don't play EVE

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
Grumpy Owly
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-03-29 14:43:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Grumpy Owly
Please CCP can you answer the question.

As it seems a case by case basis of events or intent and any interactions surrounding any kind of play cannot be seen as something that needs to be interpreted. Yet people are obviously asking for black and white rulings regardless I feel, yet perhaps not understanding the issues.

Document it somewhere so that people can understand it in context if needs be, it seems fair to some extent. Otherwise we will simply have loads of people who have broken moral compasses exploting every possible loophole available to them.

At this stage I'd go so far as to simply make it black and white rather than interprative, and simply then ban anyone who breaks it, easier all round. Soon learn that way rather than affording some maturity to game play.

(Disclaimer: not CCP's views of course)

Edit: reported myself for clarification as requested

Bounty Hunting - Soon (™): Retribution (Winter 2012)

It's just criminal - Smuggling
My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#16 - 2012-03-29 14:45:37 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Please CCP can you answer the question.

As it seems a case by case basis of events or intent and any interactions surrounding any kind of play cannot be seen as something that needs to be interpreted. Yet people are obviously asking for black and white rulings regardless I feel, yet perhaps not understanding the issues.

Document it somewhere so that people can understand it in context if needs be, it seems fair to some extent. Otherwise we will simply have loads of people who have broken moral compasses exploting every possible loophole available to them.

At this stage I'd go so far as to simply make it black and white rather than interprative, and simply then ban anyone who breaks it, easier all round. Soon learn that way rather than affording some maturity to game play.

(Disclaimer: not CCP's views of course)

Edit: reported myself for clarification as requested



please read the update to my OP

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
elenasa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-29 14:57:06 UTC
I dont like to suicide gank or wardec to intefer in the game play of others. But that's the game that I chose to play. It's not a blueprint for everyone else to adopt. I've been suicide ganked (once) and it was an annoyance (temporarily). I've had my ship blown up loads of times at gatecamps. I'm not aware of ever being scammed or of any other 'nasty ingame things' that could happen to me. But I am aware that these are all part of the game. If we want to play in the sandbox, we must be aware that the possibility of getting sand in your eyes is ever present and it may sting from time to time. We shouldn't expect the sand to be replaced with a sand substitute that won't sting when we get an eyefull of it.

Complaining about these things happening is like complaining about an opposing football team trying to constantly score points aganst you, or tackling you when you have the ball. Its a rediculous position to take. Taking my queen in in a game of chess isn't griefing, and neither is wardeccing my corp to blow up our ships.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2012-03-29 14:57:39 UTC
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