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What the EULA actually says about harassment and banning etc.
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Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-03-29 09:23:51 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Murrior wrote:
Joseph Sulaco wrote:
CCP can also terminate your account at anytime they see fit for any reason because they own it. Source NOT cited because I'm lazy and watching Anime.


On the other hand the EULA has no legal validity whatsoever whereas the fact that I'm paying for a provided virtual product has. And it is generally known that anyone who has actually acted upon their bans with legal claims in the majority of the cases actually won it.


show an example where somebody has been banned from a game, sued and won

in Iceland.

NOT going to happen.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Lexmana
#22 - 2012-03-29 09:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Lexmana
Stanya wrote:
while I think its sad to see Mittens go, take a read of the Terms of Service



Haha. Half of EVE should be banned in an instant. But cudos to CCPs lawlers for making rules CCP can never enforce but gives them freedom to ban almost anyone at will including most posters on the forums and myself.

EVE onlineTOS §2 wrote:
You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)


Quote:
vul·gar (vlgr)
adj.
1. Crudely indecent.
2.
a. Deficient in taste, delicacy, or refinement.
b. Marked by a lack of good breeding; boorish. See Synonyms at common.
c. Offensively excessive in self-display or expenditure; ostentatious: the huge vulgar houses and cars of the newly rich.
3. Spoken by or expressed in language spoken by the common people; vernacular: the technical and vulgar names for an animal species.
4. Of or associated with the great masses of people; common.
Aethlyn
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2012-03-29 09:25:03 UTC
It's unimportant on what you consider a "theft". By creating your account, you gave CCP the right to terminate your account at any time due to any reason and without compensation.

If I'm offering my neighbour to take my care at any time for any reason at his sole discretion, I can't run to the police and say he stole it afterwards.

Looking for more thoughts? Follow me on Twitter.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#24 - 2012-03-29 09:28:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Quote:
But cudos to CCPs lawlers for making rules CCP can never enforce but gives them freedom to ban almost anyone anyone at will including most posters on the forums and myself.

That did not even take any effort. They just put down paragraphs that say they can do it. And not just almost anyone, but anyone. They don't even have to give you a reason, if they don't want to.

This is how it goes: EVE is not a democracy governed by laws. You do not have guaranteed rights here beyond what CCP decides every moment to give you. EVE functions completely under the rules and decisions that CCP makes. If you don't like their decisions, you can stop playing the game, and that's pretty much the only right you have. Everything else you get - including fair treatment in a dispute - you get because CCP happens to want to give it to you, not because they have to.

Don't like it? Think you should have some right to tell them what to do? Tough. You can always quit. Myself, I am quite fine enough with CCP's handling of things that I am going to stay.
Kara Roideater
#25 - 2012-03-29 09:32:53 UTC
The EULA isn't really in issue here. The clear breach is of the ToS, as CCP has indicated. There is no reason to think that the ToS only applies ingame as nothing in the ToS states that, precedent goes against such an interpretation and CCP have said explicitly that that is not how they interpret the rules they wrote. It seems pretty clear. The only reason people do indeed frequently get away with similar stuff is because it is very rare that out of game speech about ingame actions can be connected with any certainty to an eve account holder (stuff said on other forums can always be denied). In this case there was no question about who spoke and what was said.
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2012-03-29 09:45:38 UTC
Joseph Sulaco wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
That is NOT true at all. They don't have impunity and have to act reasonably.

Impunity? Yes they do they can ban you whenever they want.
Do they have to act reasonably or responsibly? Not at all, but they do because they wish you to keep paying money so they can support their alcoholism and the insane cost of living in Iceland.
Neither of these have to do with legality.

Wukulo wrote:

They have to be able to demonstrate some degree of reasonable decision making otherwise any sane court is going to call BS on it.

Tomorrow, CCP Hilmar could wake up and decide that WoD is more important than EVE and begin shutting EVE down. Is that reasonable decision making? No, but they can do it and it has nothing to do with the court system. Period.


You're deluded.

Reasonability is one of the most important ways you can demonstrate your position in a civil case (which a eula dispute would be atleast in the USA not sure about Iceland).

If they want to protect themselves from liability they absolutely have to act reasonably. EULAs are NOT law. They do not have ultimate authority. They can write up anything they want but if they act on their EULA in an unreasonable way they're potentially liable.

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Lexmana
#27 - 2012-03-29 09:48:18 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Quote:
But cudos to CCPs lawlers for making rules CCP can never enforce but gives them freedom to ban almost anyone anyone at will including most posters on the forums and myself.

That did not even take any effort. They just put down paragraphs that say they can do it. And not just almost anyone, but anyone. They don't even have to give you a reason, if they don't want to.


That is not the point. I know they can ban anyone without reason. It is in the §26 in ToS and I am fine with that.

But the writing of §2 in ToS is so broad and general that I am sure they don't even want to enforce it. What would EVE be like if everyone that used vulgar language was banned? That just stupid lawlers and CCP could do better than that.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#28 - 2012-03-29 09:50:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Lexmana wrote:
But the writing of §2 in ToS is so broad and general that I am sure they don't even want to enforce it. What would EVE be like if everyone that used vulgar language was banned?

They do not say that they will ban you for it; they say that that is one of the cases where they might do it. It's just printed down to show you that there exists vulgar language so bad that it can be grounds for ban, and that you can be slapped for repeatedly harassing people with it; it does not mean everyone who accidentally says the f-word anywhere will definitely be banned.

Or that's how I read it.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#29 - 2012-03-29 09:53:16 UTC
Wukulo wrote:
If they want to protect themselves from liability they absolutely have to act reasonably. EULAs are NOT law. They do not have ultimate authority. They can write up anything they want but if they act on their EULA in an unreasonable way they're potentially liable.

Is there in your country a law that says that anyone who runs a computer game must let anyone else play it?

In mine, there are laws for excluding people based on such things as race, gender, sexual orientation, etc. There are no laws that I know of that say you cannot arbitrarily ban someone you think acted like a moron.
Prince Kobol
#30 - 2012-03-29 09:53:45 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Quote:
But cudos to CCPs lawlers for making rules CCP can never enforce but gives them freedom to ban almost anyone anyone at will including most posters on the forums and myself.

That did not even take any effort. They just put down paragraphs that say they can do it. And not just almost anyone, but anyone. They don't even have to give you a reason, if they don't want to.


That is not the point. I know they can ban anyone without reason. It is in the §26 in ToS and I am fine with that.

But the writing of §2 in ToS is so broad and general that I am sure they don't even want to enforce it. What would EVE be like if everyone that used vulgar language was banned? That just stupid lawlers and CCP could do better than that.



Doh !!!!

Every MMO has the same EULA/TOS.

They are so broad and general for a reason, the reason being so they do not have to be a million pages long listing every conceivable eventually.

Nugget
Murrior
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2012-03-29 10:40:40 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Murrior wrote:
Joseph Sulaco wrote:
CCP can also terminate your account at anytime they see fit for any reason because they own it. Source NOT cited because I'm lazy and watching Anime.


On the other hand the EULA has no legal validity whatsoever whereas the fact that I'm paying for a provided virtual product has. And it is generally known that anyone who has actually acted upon their bans with legal claims in the majority of the cases actually won it.


show an example where somebody has been banned from a game, sued and won


:effort:

this is the eve forums matey I don't have to back up my claims with facts. Google it.
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