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All you did is make the Wiz a target CCP.
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Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#61 - 2012-03-29 09:34:33 UTC
Wukulo wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:

Once it went public, besides being live streamed all over the interwebz, and worse into the gaming news sites it could only escalate from there. If it hit BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC and all the others then the **** would really have hit the fan. Therefore CCP was forced to deal with it in a public manner. ""Private" manner would have been taken as hiding what happened.


Lets break that logic down.

Something bad happened that we don't want to draw attention to.

So to solve it, we did something that draws attention to it so we could make ourselves look like we're not involved.

But in doing that, we could make the situation worse and since we acted, we're now involved.

It's a catch 22. It would've been better to handle it quietly, have a lawyer or 20 near by. Document everything, CYA and move on.


They could have just said 'Not cool. Don't do anything to this guy. Drop that ****.' and been done with it. They filled these guys with booze, approved all the slides, and then put them on a live, unedited feed.

It was already simmering down. All CCP had to do was say 'DON'T.' and the situation would have been resolved. they'd have drawn a line in the sand and set a clear precident that the behavior was unacceptable in the future and established a point of reference if future punishment was needed.

Instead, they knee-jerked it and knocked over the coffee table.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Starcaller Dredg
Doomheim
#62 - 2012-03-29 09:36:44 UTC
Wukulo wrote:
Starcaller Dredg wrote:

Fanfest is over. There is very little they can do now. They can't control what happens in-game for obvious reasons, and they already gave Mittani a 30 day vacation from EVE. They can go public with an apology but honestly I think that would make the situation worse. This is Mittani's problem, not CCP's, and I don't agree that they should help clean up Mittani's mess. Honestly I'd say ban him for a year. The Wiz should be offered a new account or character and a free skill boost to ensure he is removed from harm, but other than that, it's up to the community to demand a more grown-up group of representatives.



I hope if this whole situation gets out of hand for the wiz CCP will do exactly that. I personally don't agree with how CCP handled the Mittani and I personally don't approve of Wiz's behavior either but in the end he's the most victimized by all of this.

Hope that CCP will do right by him. They kind'a screwed him over.



Agreed in full. In the end, EVE is about having fun... not about the politics, the drama or the meta.

I will rise To dreams of freedom And avow To return the treason that came under your reign
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#63 - 2012-03-29 09:40:46 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:

Once it went public, besides being live streamed all over the interwebz, and worse into the gaming news sites it could only escalate from there. If it hit BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC and all the others then the **** would really have hit the fan. Therefore CCP was forced to deal with it in a public manner. ""Private" manner would have been taken as hiding what happened.


Lets break that logic down.

Something bad happened that we don't want to draw attention to.

So to solve it, we did something that draws attention to it so we could make ourselves look like we're not involved.

But in doing that, we could make the situation worse and since we acted, we're now involved.

It's a catch 22. It would've been better to handle it quietly, have a lawyer or 20 near by. Document everything, CYA and move on.


They could have just said 'Not cool. Don't do anything to this guy. Drop that ****.' and been done with it. They filled these guys with booze, approved all the slides, and then put them on a live, unedited feed.

It was already simmering down. All CCP had to do was say 'DON'T.' and the situation would have been resolved. they'd have drawn a line in the sand and set a clear precident that the behavior was unacceptable in the future and established a point of reference if future punishment was needed.

Instead, they knee-jerked it and knocked over the coffee table.


Yeah cause the goons wouldnt have run screaming to the forums about censorship.

OH WAIT thats exactly what they would do. And mittens would talk about how evil they were for doing that for froth up his swarm. And how they have to show CCP a lesson.

Goons believe the stupidest easy to see through propaganda.

They were never hard, they are just a swarm.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Glarealot
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2012-03-29 09:40:52 UTC
No, Mittani made him a target by calling him out in his stepping down thread saying it was ALL The Wis' fault he had to step down cause he didn't find the apology "sincere" enough.

Mittani knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that. Don't try to act stupid like you don't either.

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#65 - 2012-03-29 09:45:38 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:

Um no, the mittens put a target on the guys back.


And then you lot went and put a planet sized target on his back.

What you are doing here is saying "if you do not let us bully him this way, we are going to do something even worse". That is a classic example of how mobs behave in bullying incidents. It is called "holding hostages". In school bullying cases, it usually manifests in the victim pleading for adults not to interfere, because "it will only get worse". You are not trying to hold hostage the victim; you are trying to hold hostage the whole community. You are trying to bully us into not opposing bullying by threatening us with more bullying.

It's not going to work.


Except that this is not bullying. Bullying is pickingon someone for months/years. This was a single horrible drunken joke that was white knited by people such as yourself who fail to grasp the concept of a joke and think everything siad should be taken seriously even if it is said by a sloshed guy in a wizard hat. The simple truth of all of this because of you people and your campain, Wis is now known across the internet as that suicidal guy and now stands a much greater chance of getting harrassed by others.

What you lot did to both wis and mittani is far far worse than the original crime.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#66 - 2012-03-29 09:47:20 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:

Once it went public, besides being live streamed all over the interwebz, and worse into the gaming news sites it could only escalate from there. If it hit BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC and all the others then the **** would really have hit the fan. Therefore CCP was forced to deal with it in a public manner. ""Private" manner would have been taken as hiding what happened.


Lets break that logic down.

Something bad happened that we don't want to draw attention to.

So to solve it, we did something that draws attention to it so we could make ourselves look like we're not involved.

But in doing that, we could make the situation worse and since we acted, we're now involved.

It's a catch 22. It would've been better to handle it quietly, have a lawyer or 20 near by. Document everything, CYA and move on.


They could have just said 'Not cool. Don't do anything to this guy. Drop that ****.' and been done with it. They filled these guys with booze, approved all the slides, and then put them on a live, unedited feed.

It was already simmering down. All CCP had to do was say 'DON'T.' and the situation would have been resolved. they'd have drawn a line in the sand and set a clear precident that the behavior was unacceptable in the future and established a point of reference if future punishment was needed.

Instead, they knee-jerked it and knocked over the coffee table.


Yeah cause the goons wouldnt have run screaming to the forums about censorship.

OH WAIT thats exactly what they would do. And mittens would talk about how evil they were for doing that for froth up his swarm. And how they have to show CCP a lesson.

Goons believe the stupidest easy to see through propaganda.

They were never hard, they are just a swarm.


You're probably right, but this wouldn't be nearly the 'scandal' its been made out to be. CCP would have established the line not to cross not only for Mittani and the goons but for future CSM members, and they could have discreetly kept an eye on the miner. It wouldn't be political drama, it wouldn't have been spammed to ezine inboxes. CCP could have definitvely said they put their foot down, and anything further would get whoever crossed the line nailed to the wall. Concise, clear cut, and simple. Easy to argue, even if CNN or MSNBC did, by some miracle, pick it up.

All they had to do was say STOP IT, and they would have made their point. CCP played this cramped, and it cramped everyone reacting to it. They were passive-aggresive in their handling, and it cost them PR where it should have been cut and dry.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2012-03-29 09:51:14 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
J3ssica Alba wrote:

Once it went public, besides being live streamed all over the interwebz, and worse into the gaming news sites it could only escalate from there. If it hit BBC, CNN, Fox, MSNBC and all the others then the **** would really have hit the fan. Therefore CCP was forced to deal with it in a public manner. ""Private" manner would have been taken as hiding what happened.


Lets break that logic down.

Something bad happened that we don't want to draw attention to.

So to solve it, we did something that draws attention to it so we could make ourselves look like we're not involved.

But in doing that, we could make the situation worse and since we acted, we're now involved.

It's a catch 22. It would've been better to handle it quietly, have a lawyer or 20 near by. Document everything, CYA and move on.


They could have just said 'Not cool. Don't do anything to this guy. Drop that ****.' and been done with it. They filled these guys with booze, approved all the slides, and then put them on a live, unedited feed.

It was already simmering down. All CCP had to do was say 'DON'T.' and the situation would have been resolved. they'd have drawn a line in the sand and set a clear precident that the behavior was unacceptable in the future and established a point of reference if future punishment was needed.

Instead, they knee-jerked it and knocked over the coffee table.


Exactly. CCP went from being the cool company that wants to throw a party for their fans to being the company that has lawyers and stuff in a heart beat.

A party fowl was escalated to an international incident in a heart beat. CCP can't have it's cake and eat it to. They're either the company that gets drunk with their fans or the company that protects it self in every way possible. What ever happened to fearless? lol.

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Raiykjab
Federal Navy Academy
#68 - 2012-03-29 09:57:48 UTC
Wukulo wrote:


Exactly. CCP went from being the cool company that wants to throw a party for their fans to being the company that has lawyers and stuff in a heart beat.

A party fowl was escalated to an international incident in a heart beat. CCP can't have it's cake and eat it to. They're either the company that gets drunk with their fans or the company that protects it self in every way possible. What ever happened to fearless? lol.


Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.

Eve has miners?!
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#69 - 2012-03-29 10:02:09 UTC
Raiykjab wrote:
Wukulo wrote:


Exactly. CCP went from being the cool company that wants to throw a party for their fans to being the company that has lawyers and stuff in a heart beat.

A party fowl was escalated to an international incident in a heart beat. CCP can't have it's cake and eat it to. They're either the company that gets drunk with their fans or the company that protects it self in every way possible. What ever happened to fearless? lol.


Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.


Even assuming that was the case, hey could have acted like it was a party foul and pulled him aside later. It would have been a simple matter to drag him by the ear into a broom closet and say "You do that **** again, you're banned from the game, ousted from the CSM, and removed from future elections. We don't want that **** and we'll f-ing crucify you if you try it again."

Then they make nice-nice for the cameras, and the only thing against them is the word of someone who, obviously, no one is willing to trust for even an instant. They should just hire me for PR.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#70 - 2012-03-29 10:02:59 UTC
Raiykjab wrote:

Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.


Link your source?

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Raiykjab
Federal Navy Academy
#71 - 2012-03-29 10:07:56 UTC
Wukulo wrote:
Raiykjab wrote:

Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.


Link your source?


Official dev blog : http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28576

Quote:
CCP requested that all panel PowerPoint presentations and discussion topics be handed in beforehand for approval. Regrettably, the offending comments were made during an unscripted Q&A session after the main presentations.

Eve has miners?!
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#72 - 2012-03-29 10:11:28 UTC
I have a feeling that The Wis will find more than enough people to come to his aid.

If you're ever in Domain or the Bleaks and need a hand with anything mate, give me a shout.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2012-03-29 10:20:04 UTC
Raiykjab wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
Raiykjab wrote:

Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.


Link your source?


Official dev blog : http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28576

Quote:
CCP requested that all panel PowerPoint presentations and discussion topics be handed in beforehand for approval. Regrettably, the offending comments were made during an unscripted Q&A session after the main presentations.


killer, thanks.

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Wukulo
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2012-03-29 10:23:09 UTC
Raiykjab wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
Raiykjab wrote:

Sorry that's bs. He submitted the presentation to ccp and added the WIS afterward. CCP isn't to blame.


Link your source?


Official dev blog : http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28576

Quote:
CCP requested that all panel PowerPoint presentations and discussion topics be handed in beforehand for approval. Regrettably, the offending comments were made during an unscripted Q&A session after the main presentations.


Ok, so after reading your link. What you said is VERY misleading.

There is nothing about anything being added to the presentations. In fact it very specifically says that the comments were made afterwards during an unscripted QA session. There is no mention of anything be added to the presentation after CCP's review.

Posted on main because I'm not a coward like the rest of you.
Vampir Draken
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-03-29 10:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vampir Draken
Davor wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
He made a mistake. Owned up to, apologized, extended the olive branch to the dude he did wrong.

And then threw a tantrum and went on a tirade asking his legion of idiots to use the game as a tool to grief because of **** he brought upon himself. You forgot that part.


It was already planned, genius. We're actually delaying it until mittens is free.


In which case you are using the ban to harass a player for something that has happened outside the game. I am pretty sure that sort of harassment is also against EVE's EULA.
Personally I think Goonswarm players should be extremely careful about this and write it off to experience and strictly leave the guy alone, get on with playing the game.
Possibilities of pursuing this course of action may even have repercussions inside the Goonswarm federation.
Tread very carefully guys.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2012-03-29 10:28:24 UTC
Vampir Draken wrote:
Davor wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
He made a mistake. Owned up to, apologized, extended the olive branch to the dude he did wrong.

And then threw a tantrum and went on a tirade asking his legion of idiots to use the game as a tool to grief because of **** he brought upon himself. You forgot that part.


It was already planned, genius. We're actually delaying it until mittens is free.


In which case you are using the ban to harass a player for something that has happened outside the game. I am pretty sure that sort of harassment is also against EVE's EULA.
Personally I think Goonswarm players should be extremely careful about this and write it off to experience and strictly leave the guy alone, get on with playing the game.
Possibilities of pursuing this course of action may even have repercussions inside the Goonswarm federation.
Tread very carefully guys.


Jita is not a player...
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#77 - 2012-03-29 10:32:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vampir Draken wrote:
Davor wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
He made a mistake. Owned up to, apologized, extended the olive branch to the dude he did wrong.

And then threw a tantrum and went on a tirade asking his legion of idiots to use the game as a tool to grief because of **** he brought upon himself. You forgot that part.


It was already planned, genius. We're actually delaying it until mittens is free.


In which case you are using the ban to harass a player for something that has happened outside the game. I am pretty sure that sort of harassment is also against EVE's EULA.
Personally I think Goonswarm players should be extremely careful about this and write it off to experience and strictly leave the guy alone, get on with playing the game.
Possibilities of pursuing this course of action may even have repercussions inside the Goonswarm federation.
Tread very carefully guys.


Jita is not a player...


Well, it has been rumored that people are NOW planning on going after the miner in response to CCP's poor handling of the situation. But, you know how that is, rumors gonna rumor.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#78 - 2012-03-29 10:33:56 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:


Well, it has been rumored that people are NOW planning on going after the miner in response to CCP's poor handling of the situation. But, you know how that is, rumors gonna rumor.


Well I can assure you that goons are far too busy getting ready for the 28th.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#79 - 2012-03-29 10:38:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:


Well, it has been rumored that people are NOW planning on going after the miner in response to CCP's poor handling of the situation. But, you know how that is, rumors gonna rumor.


Well I can assure you that goons are far too busy getting ready for the 28th.


I'm honestly looking forward to this. The Ice interdiction shut down my mining and bummed me out, but it was still fun as hell. I hope you're raising the bar for this one...just play it safe with regard to the rules so CCP doesn't go angry dad on the lot of us.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Vampir Draken
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-03-29 10:45:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Vampir Draken wrote:
Davor wrote:
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Wukulo wrote:
He made a mistake. Owned up to, apologized, extended the olive branch to the dude he did wrong.

And then threw a tantrum and went on a tirade asking his legion of idiots to use the game as a tool to grief because of **** he brought upon himself. You forgot that part.


It was already planned, genius. We're actually delaying it until mittens is free.


In which case you are using the ban to harass a player for something that has happened outside the game. I am pretty sure that sort of harassment is also against EVE's EULA.
Personally I think Goonswarm players should be extremely careful about this and write it off to experience and strictly leave the guy alone, get on with playing the game.
Possibilities of pursuing this course of action may even have repercussions inside the Goonswarm federation.
Tread very carefully guys.


Jita is not a player...


Your right, my apologies, I read it as others did here and thought it was The Wiz they were planning to enact revenge on. My bad.

It may be a good idea though to let some dust lie for a while even after Mittens return to let the furore settle down before being too outlandish with new and already planned attacks.