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Crime & Punishment

 
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goodbye (hisec) sandbox, hello daycare
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Starcaller Dredg
Doomheim
#161 - 2012-03-28 23:06:46 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
People still don't get what the actual issue. Roll

In any event, it's all just conjecture until CCP puts in a dev blog... THIS IS WHAT WERE GOING TO DO. Until then, I shall wait.

Still don't like the idea of getting a sec hit for killing somebody that is shooting at me.



As much as I respect you as a pilot and enjoy your pvp stories, I must disagree.

This new system will help new pilots and carebears actually fight back and allow them to band together on the spot. I remember when I first started playing I was eager to start shooting people, and I learned the hard way about how sec status worked. a single hail in local can spur a flash flood of help from people who would love to be on the winning side in their formative months of EVE. It's a very good incentive for demonstrating the sandbox that EVE is.

Furthermore, as discussed earlier, just make an alt, get it to -10 (not at all hard) and use it purely to regain your main's sec status after every hi-sec adventure. Yes, it's part of the meta, but so are spy alts, scamming and multiboxing.

It should be an exciting new way for you to PVP, and since you like to call yourself a terrorist, you of all people should like the potential of this system.

I will rise To dreams of freedom And avow To return the treason that came under your reign
Immortis Vexx
Onyx Moon Industries
#162 - 2012-03-29 00:15:19 UTC
I look at this as (and I'm going wayyy back on this one) grey status in Ultima Online. If you perform a criminal act you are in fact, a criminal. In UO if you were grey you had better watch your back, and it was all based on karma AKA sec status. The more criminal acts you racked up the lower your karma and you would then become Perma grey until you raised your karma. Guess what? No one likes criminals. A criminal is an outlaw supposed to live on the fringes of society. Society as a whole should not tolerate criminals. This does *NOT* mean that high sec should not have PVP. This also does not mean that EVE shouldn't have criminals. What happens in real life if you steal a car? The police hunt you down and capture you. This also means that you are on the run. You don't get help from people because they don't want to be associated with you.

I would like someone to try to steal a car in a busy parking lot in the south and see what happens. It wouldn't take long for every gun toting redneck (which is all of them Blink) to swarm you.

Why should EVE be any different? (other than the redneck part. I really don't want to see gun racks and confederate flags flying on ships)

Vexx



**Note: I do not support or endorse stealing of anything in the real world so please, don't do it.
Starcaller Dredg
Doomheim
#163 - 2012-03-29 00:48:40 UTC
Immortis Vexx wrote:
I look at this as (and I'm going wayyy back on this one) grey status in Ultima Online. If you perform a criminal act you are in fact, a criminal. In UO if you were grey you had better watch your back, and it was all based on karma AKA sec status. The more criminal acts you racked up the lower your karma and you would then become Perma grey until you raised your karma. Guess what? No one likes criminals. A criminal is an outlaw supposed to live on the fringes of society. Society as a whole should not tolerate criminals. This does *NOT* mean that high sec should not have PVP. This also does not mean that EVE shouldn't have criminals. What happens in real life if you steal a car? The police hunt you down and capture you. This also means that you are on the run. You don't get help from people because they don't want to be associated with you.

I would like someone to try to steal a car in a busy parking lot in the south and see what happens. It wouldn't take long for every gun toting redneck (which is all of them Blink) to swarm you.

Why should EVE be any different? (other than the redneck part. I really don't want to see gun racks and confederate flags flying on ships)

Vexx



**Note: I do not support or endorse stealing of anything in the real world so please, don't do it.


Now i want a gun rack on my rifter.

I will rise To dreams of freedom And avow To return the treason that came under your reign
Mikhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings
#164 - 2012-03-29 00:55:06 UTC
kiki mo wrote:
words


TEARS is the right alliance for you... need a tissue?

There once was an interesting signature here... It has long since disapeared. 
El 1974
Green Visstick High
#165 - 2012-03-29 01:10:47 UTC
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Still don't like the idea of getting a sec hit for killing somebody that is shooting at me.

Happens in real life as well. You steal from a guy, he pulls a gun, you shoot him: you go away for a long time.
Chicken Pizza
One-man Armada
#166 - 2012-03-29 13:18:14 UTC
Buck Futz wrote:
I don't know, if its not PvP, How about we call it PvC?

Carebears aren't really 'people' after all (mostly botters in my experience), so would calling it PvC would distinguish the two and not offend our 'nullsec PVP' betters?

Wat u tink, guvnor?

Is "PvC" a 'good enough' label for popping, oh, almost 600 Exhumers in 3 months......SOLO?


I think dealing about 115 Billion ISK in damage to the mining community - with only occasional play - is just a bit more than 'carebear ratting', so you might want to climb down from your pedestal.

After all, I don't see very many kills on YOUR ledger........that aren't shared by 50 other people. Roll

Doing something in large quantities doesn't change what it is.

Don't bother looking at my killboard, either. You won't find very many kills involving ships that only fit mining lasers. In highsec, for that matter.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#167 - 2012-03-29 14:32:40 UTC
El 1974 wrote:
Happens in real life as well. You steal from a guy, he pulls a gun, you shoot him: you go away for a long time.


If I steal from you and you shoot me, YOU go away for a long time. Theft does NOT permit a violent response under most legal systems. Eve is different (also, it's a game).

Shooting me when I have a suspect flag is consenting to PVP. I should NOT be penalized for fighting with someone who has accepted the risk and started a fight. If they do go forward with this silly rule, the standard practice will become having a suicide alt on standby so that when you do burn them down to structure, you warp in the Tornado alt to do the killing and take the sec hit. It'll be a good way to repurpose all those neutral RR alts that will be obsolete.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Lady Spank
Get Out Nasty Face
#168 - 2012-03-29 15:01:21 UTC
Baww

(ಠ_ృ) ~ It Takes a Million Years to Become Diamonds So Lets Just Burn Like Coal Until the Sky's Black ~ (ಠ_ృ)
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2012-03-29 15:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Azran Zala
El 1974 wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Still don't like the idea of getting a sec hit for killing somebody that is shooting at me.

Happens in real life as well. You steal from a guy, he pulls a gun, you shoot him: you go away for a long time.


Well where I come from, if you get caught walking out someones front door with his TV in the middle of the night,
he pulls a gun and shoots you... he goes to jail for murder/attempted murder.

Ones right to protect their property is never held higher than anothers right to live, at least in my country.
Azran Zala
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#170 - 2012-03-29 15:08:04 UTC
Talus DeMedici wrote:


This could however cause an unforeseen bonus in the new player systems. As everyone knows, there are people who sit in new player systems can baiting. Usually there are 2 or 3 of these guys bating. With the proposed changes, when a new player falls for the "free stuff" bait, instead of surprise butt seks from one thrasher, he/she will enjoy a surprise gang bang from many thrashers. And, all of the baiters will now be able to get in on the km. Just think of all the time this will save the baiters.



SOLD. I approve of this new mechanic.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#171 - 2012-03-29 15:40:59 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
Happens in real life as well. You steal from a guy, he pulls a gun, you shoot him: you go away for a long time.


Well where I come from, if you get caught walking out someones front door with his TV in the middle of the night,
he pulls a gun and shoots you... he goes to jail for murder/attempted murder.

Ones right to protect their property is never held higher than anothers right to live, at least in my country.[/quote]

I live in Texas (that bastion of gun violence, according to some) and that's the case here. Self defense requires a threat or use of force.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#172 - 2012-03-29 15:42:27 UTC
Talus DeMedici wrote:
there are people who sit in new player systems can baiting. Usually there are 2 or 3 of these guys bating. With the proposed changes, when a new player falls for the "free stuff" bait, instead of surprise butt seks from one thrasher, he/she will enjoy a surprise gang bang from many thrashers.


Except:

1) It's already a bannable offense to can-bait noobs, and
2) The proposed "safety switch" will prevent noobs from stealing from the can in the first place.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Soporo
#173 - 2012-03-29 16:08:20 UTC
Azran Zala wrote:
El 1974 wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Still don't like the idea of getting a sec hit for killing somebody that is shooting at me.

Happens in real life as well. You steal from a guy, he pulls a gun, you shoot him: you go away for a long time.


Well where I come from, if you get caught walking out someones front door with his TV in the middle of the night,
he pulls a gun and shoots you... he goes to jail for murder/attempted murder.

Ones right to protect their property is never held higher than anothers right to live, at least in my country.


That thief above better not do that in Texas and a buncha other southern and some midwestern states. Some places still allow people to defend their property, even their neighbors too, thankfully. Smile Risk/reward. Forget the north east and the left coast though, it's generally open season on law abiding citizens there.

Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats. - H.L. Mencken
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#174 - 2012-03-29 16:21:58 UTC
Soporo wrote:
That thief above better not do that in Texas and a buncha other southern and some midwestern states. Some places still allow people to defend their property, even their neighbors too, thankfully. Smile Risk/reward. Forget the north east and the left coast though, it's generally open season on law abiding citizens there.


You shoot someone in Texas because they stole your TV, you'll probably go to jail. You have the right to defend yourself and others from harm, not from the loss of property.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#175 - 2012-03-29 18:37:11 UTC
If I had a rookie ship kill on a day old noob I'd quit.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Proteus Maximus
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#176 - 2012-03-29 18:41:04 UTC
Quote:
-10 players would actually be welcomed at lowsec stations where pirate factions control it...and positive standings players would be shot at by the station guns, the npc police and possibly the gate guns, depending on the security status of the system.


This... Would be most excellent!

If Goons were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it.
Kobalos
Carebears -With- Guns
Goonswarm Federation
#177 - 2012-03-29 20:50:11 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Ohh Yeah wrote:
This is going to own.

Now all I have to do is canflip my alt and I suddenly am flagged to everyone in EVE.

That is ******* amazing. The number of fights a high-sec PvPer can get all over high-sec now is amazing.

Except that even if someone shoots you, you won't be able to shoot them back without going GCC.



I fail to see your point. A criminal is a criminal. If a criminal fights those who are attempting to punish him for his crimes, that is further criminal action and his guilt and punishment increase in proportion to his recalcitrance. Make sense? Ever play Grand Theft Auto? Ever watch TV? The sandbox is more true to life, with this change. You just have to have more ghanas, now.

- Kobalos Big smile
Kobalos
Carebears -With- Guns
Goonswarm Federation
#178 - 2012-03-29 20:51:20 UTC
Proteus Maximus wrote:
Quote:
-10 players would actually be welcomed at lowsec stations where pirate factions control it...and positive standings players would be shot at by the station guns, the npc police and possibly the gate guns, depending on the security status of the system.


This... Would be most excellent!


On the flip-side, this would be amazing.

- Kobalos Big smile
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#179 - 2012-03-29 21:22:05 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If I had a rookie ship kill on a day old noob I'd quit.

I think I have a few from a wartarget who was trying to troll us with his day-old alt. Sometimes you shoot just for the hell of it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Zaltone
SkyDog Freight and Logistics
#180 - 2012-03-29 21:32:28 UTC
I think its because of the inflation caused by the bot miner bans. CCP need the active miners to be safe to lower market prices back to a "normal level". ShockedShockedShockedShockedShocked

The Dominix is always, the answer the question doesnt matter!!!!!