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Call for rerun of CSM 7 Election
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Alara IonStorm
#41 - 2012-03-28 23:36:10 UTC
Infinimo wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/8q5Pt.jpg

You should fix that from because he told a guy to end it to he told a bunch of people to harass him into ending it.

Don't want to give misinformation do you?
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#42 - 2012-03-28 23:37:17 UTC
There is no better way to strip confidence from the CSM than to throw out the landslide winner on tenuous grounds. His actions were not representing the CSM or CCP, but Goonswarm, and should be seen as such.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#43 - 2012-03-28 23:37:26 UTC
That's what you get for voting in an abusive alcoholic to be CSM chairman.

Next time, vote for someone who is a bit more mentally balanced and you won't have these problems.

What'd Mittani say? Dealwithit? Yeah, that sounds about right. Dealwithit.
Revii Lagoon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2012-03-28 23:39:08 UTC
We don't want a re-election, we want the person who we rightfully elected to the CSM have his spot on the CSM.
Ai Shun
#45 - 2012-03-28 23:40:56 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP did not re-run the elections in the past when other CSM members were removed for TOS/EULA violations, why exactly should they do it now?


I can't find the name of that candidate now, but if memory serves me right the candidate was not the Chair nor did they hold almost 20% of the vote. That is a large percentage - large enough to make me want a re-election rather than just having an alternate step up.

Besides, it is not like running a real-world election so the cost to CCP should be relatively minimal.
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#46 - 2012-03-28 23:41:23 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
That's what you get for voting in an abusive alcoholic to be CSM chairman.

Next time, vote for someone who is a bit more mentally balanced and you won't have these problems.

What'd Mittani say? Dealwithit? Yeah, that sounds about right. Dealwithit.


Clearly, you have never been to any gaming conventions. Take a look at CCP's own gate camp at the airport. They met Eve players with a tour bus and handed out handles of jack and cases of beer. Sobriety is not what people DO at these conventions.

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#47 - 2012-03-28 23:41:29 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Research "By-Election". The Mittani is not a president, but a member of a house.

By-elections only apply when there's not a line of succession in place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the CSM alternates are for?


And in regular (At least here in NZ) systems, when the electoral candidate is removed or removes themselves the position does not drop down to the next highest vote count. see this as a special circumstance because it represents a large slice of the voting population (Almost 20%!) and it is the position of Chairman.

Well, I guess there's so much variance all around the world it's pointless for the two of us to really speculate on it. I'll admit as an Israeli living in America I get pretty mixed up about how various government thingies work at times.

It's easy to get caught up in how things are done at home, and not be mindful of the rest of the world and how their processes work.
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#48 - 2012-03-28 23:44:48 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
CCP did not re-run the elections in the past when other CSM members were removed for TOS/EULA violations, why exactly should they do it now?


I can't find the name of that candidate now, but if memory serves me right the candidate was not the Chair nor did they hold almost 20% of the vote. That is a large percentage - large enough to make me want a re-election rather than just having an alternate step up.

Besides, it is not like running a real-world election so the cost to CCP should be relatively minimal.



So just because one of the members who was removed for TOS/EULA violations got more votes than the other members, that somehow creates the necessity for some kind of a "do-over"?

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Ai Shun
#49 - 2012-03-28 23:44:58 UTC
Amity Lane wrote:
Well, I guess there's so much variance all around the world it's pointless for the two of us to really speculate on it. I'll admit as an Israeli living in America I get pretty mixed up about how various government thingies work at times.

It's easy to get caught up in how things are done at home, and not be mindful of the rest of the world and how their processes work.


Yeah, I agree the Alternates should apply under normal circumstances but this seems to far from the norm for me to be comfortable with what has happened. It would be fair to the Goonswarm to have a re-election and, 'sides, it might give me the opportunity to get my preferred candidate a seat Lol
Xander Riggs
Slamtown Federation
#50 - 2012-03-28 23:45:30 UTC
Amity Lane wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Research "By-Election". The Mittani is not a president, but a member of a house.

By-elections only apply when there's not a line of succession in place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that what the CSM alternates are for?


And in regular (At least here in NZ) systems, when the electoral candidate is removed or removes themselves the position does not drop down to the next highest vote count. see this as a special circumstance because it represents a large slice of the voting population (Almost 20%!) and it is the position of Chairman.

Well, I guess there's so much variance all around the world it's pointless for the two of us to really speculate on it. I'll admit as an Israeli living in America I get pretty mixed up about how various government thingies work at times.

It's easy to get caught up in how things are done at home, and not be mindful of the rest of the world and how their processes work.


Perhaps it would be wise to propose a system of alternates in future elections? The candidates choose their VPs and run on a two-man ticket, to ensure that the message is heard even if the particular winner is unable to continue to represent due to illness or hurt feelings?

"A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands."
XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#51 - 2012-03-28 23:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: XavierVE
Xander Riggs wrote:
Clearly, you have never been to any gaming conventions. Take a look at CCP's own gate camp at the airport. They met Eve players with a tour bus and handed out handles of jack and cases of beer. Sobriety is not what people DO at these conventions.


And the difference between someone with an alcohol problem and someone without?

The alcoholic is self-destructive, abusive to others and drinks to a level where he does not even remember what he did the previous night. You voted in an abusive alcoholic. You don't see proper CSM members like Darius III, Issler or Two Step getting blackout drunk and then trying to get someone to kill themselves. The fact that so many were served alcohol is not a defense of Alex, but a condemnation. Others could handle their alcohol, he couldn't because he needs professional help to deal with his addiction and abuse.

You complain that your votes are now wasted, they were wasted when you voted for the drunkard to begin with.
Ai Shun
#52 - 2012-03-28 23:47:05 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
So just because one of the members who was removed for TOS/EULA violations got more votes than the other members, that somehow creates the necessity for some kind of a "do-over"?


Yes, because it represents such a large slice of the voting population. If 17% of the voting population that put a government in-place has their candidate removed, it seems reasonable to me. These are not normal circumstances.

You disagree, no harm. But I would like to see a re-election. We'll probably see the same people re-elected (With maybe Lady Harlot Lol) but it would make me feel the new CSM has legitimacy. They're not "sworn in" yet, that happens April 4th.
Ai Shun
#53 - 2012-03-28 23:47:59 UTC
Xander Riggs wrote:
Perhaps it would be wise to propose a system of alternates in future elections? The candidates choose their VPs and run on a two-man ticket, to ensure that the message is heard even if the particular winner is unable to continue to represent due to illness or hurt feelings?


Something, yes. This is our damn in-game democracy. We should be able to shape it the way we want it.
Doddy
Excidium.
#54 - 2012-03-28 23:50:00 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
As someone who did not vote for The Mitanni, I feel it would be only fair to re-run the CSM elections or at least give those who voted for The Mitanni a chance to vote for someone else.


The latter is broken as it would allow us to strategically vote to get the most CFC candidates in. Hang on why am I telling you this, its a great idea.
Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#55 - 2012-03-28 23:50:36 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Xander Riggs wrote:
Perhaps it would be wise to propose a system of alternates in future elections? The candidates choose their VPs and run on a two-man ticket, to ensure that the message is heard even if the particular winner is unable to continue to represent due to illness or hurt feelings?


Something, yes. This is our damn in-game democracy. We should be able to shape it the way we want it.

I could see a two-man ticket system getting really complicated.

I do agree that in the future there should be some kind of set system in the event of this kind of thing...whether a panel of alternates, junior members, By-election system, etc. Codification is good!
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#56 - 2012-03-28 23:50:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Doc Fury
Ai Shun wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
So just because one of the members who was removed for TOS/EULA violations got more votes than the other members, that somehow creates the necessity for some kind of a "do-over"?


Yes, because it represents such a large slice of the voting population. If 17% of the voting population that put a government in-place has their candidate removed, it seems reasonable to me. These are not normal circumstances.

You disagree, no harm. But I would like to see a re-election. We'll probably see the same people re-elected (With maybe Lady Harlot Lol) but it would make me feel the new CSM has legitimacy. They're not "sworn in" yet, that happens April 4th.


Yeah, about that.. I don't think that's how a democracy works when an elected "official" is impeached, which is pretty much what happened here. I think CCP provided for alternates for this specific situation, as illustrated by what happened when other CSM members were removed for TOS/EULA violations.

☼

There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.
Xenuria
#57 - 2012-03-28 23:52:10 UTC
Now is my chance...

Vote for me.

Vote Xenuria!

CSM 12 Candidate
Ai Shun
#58 - 2012-03-28 23:52:24 UTC
Doc Fury wrote:
Yeah, about that.. I don't think that's how a democracy works when an elected "official" is impeached, which is pretty much what happened here. I think CCP provided for alternates for this specific situation.


It depends on the nature of the democracy and how it is handled. Refer to the previous discussion on a By-Election or read here.
Doctor Benway Kado
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-03-28 23:53:55 UTC
I would be willing to give up my campaign for a revote if CCP was willing to show transparency about how and why this decision was made. If we're going to start comparing this to an impeachment, isn't that what should happen?

But it's not an impeachment, and we all know that. Anybody claiming otherwise is clearly daft, devious, or both.
Doddy
Excidium.
#60 - 2012-03-28 23:54:31 UTC
The whole alternates thing is stupid from the start, though ccp are pretty unlucky that this perfect storm (candidate gets enormous vote then is removed immediately with the alternate system leaving his voters disenfranchised) has happened to expose its flaws.