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New dev blog: In search of Unity

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Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-03-28 01:14:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdiel Kavash
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


- Search for items which are inside containers, inside ship cargoholds, or fitted to a ship.
- Either make the search real-time, or drastically reduce the cache timer. I don't particularly care if the search takes five seconds, as long as it finds items I placed in the hangar five minutes ago.
- For corporation asset search, pool all the different location types (offices, deliveries, in space...) into one result window.
- Allow me to search through all of my alts' assets (yes I can wish).
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2012-03-28 01:37:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Duvida
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


- Search for items which are inside containers, inside ship cargoholds, or fitted to a ship.
- Either make the search real-time, or drastically reduce the cache timer. I don't particularly care if the search takes five seconds, as long as it finds items I placed in the hangar five minutes ago.
- For corporation asset search, pool all the different location types (offices, deliveries, in space...) into one result window.
- Allow me to search through all of my alts' assets (yes I can wish).


This would be very useful, as I use containers to manage my inventory.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#43 - 2012-03-28 01:40:38 UTC

There is such a thing as too much power!

ShockedShockedShocked


Where I am.
MotherMoon
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-03-28 05:04:50 UTC
I know it's a craps shoot to get your voice heard, but here goes nothing : )


So assets search.
Filter items in local hanger
1st of all why can i use the assets window to filter item type in my local station, but I can't filter like that in my normal items window?

Usability
Searching for things in your assets should be easy, and hopefully the filter tabs for station/region/other places could be replaced with some sort of slider bar, that increases and decreases the distance you want to search from your current location. The issue with the current system is new players don't even understand what half of those things mean. A nice simple, very far away, close by list of systems , that you can sort by region would be a much more powerful and useful tool.

Star map integration
Hopefully you can build this into the star map, so you have the option to click on a system, and then using a slider pick the distance from that system, and see all results. With little popups above each point that has your stuff in it.

this allows for new players to SEE the space they live in. and have a real feeling for how much of the universe they are living in. You could steal some of the scanning probe UI art assets for this perhaps. : )

Cans

See if you can't get someone to add the ability to turn cans into a expandable sub menu in the assets search.

On top of that see if you can't get someone to let us make folders in our items window. But don't replace this with a good way to see in cans over long distances. both have uses.

more to come?
I could think of more, but I think i get the overall feeling of what i want the assets search window to be in my personal opinion. Maybe you like it? maybe you think it could be better with some changes? i love and welcome feedback. : )

I could draw up some pictures if you think the idea is wroth diving into. I'm actually a games industry artist myself, I can make pretty slides. :P

Another bit

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg
DeBingJos
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2012-03-28 08:02:27 UTC
But does the new search engine support regex queries?

My inner nerd really hopes so!

Ungi maðurinn þekkir reglurnar, en gamli maðurinn þekkir undantekningarnar. The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions.

CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#46 - 2012-03-28 08:57:05 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP Ronin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
would results sort themselves by most popular?

They're sorted by relevancy to the search term -- Searching for "Bob Jita" should list results like "Bob Jita" and "Jita Bob" above results like "Bobdudeman Awesome Jitalol".


So wait, does this mean that when I search for the character "Bob Jita" in the new search box, I get characters "Bob Jita", "Jita Bob", and the corp "Bober's Jita Supplies" included as results? I hope this is either a joke or there is a way to turn this "feature" off.


Hi - yes you can turn this off.
This search is "any" option in People&Places.
If you set the choice to be "characters" it'll only return characters as usual.

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Kandreath
De Re Metallica
#47 - 2012-03-28 09:17:33 UTC
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


- Search for items which are inside containers, inside ship cargoholds, or fitted to a ship.
- Either make the search real-time, or drastically reduce the cache timer. I don't particularly care if the search takes five seconds, as long as it finds items I placed in the hangar five minutes ago.
- For corporation asset search, pool all the different location types (offices, deliveries, in space...) into one result window.
- Allow me to search through all of my alts' assets (yes I can wish).


The above aaaaannnnnnd:

Particularly annoying is the "must choose exact name" thingy going on.

I'd like to use the corp asset search with the same behaviour as the personal asset search. Including the keywords function.
(See: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=3220 : dude, where's my erebus?)

As far as the "process" goes, I find it odd I'll get a blank search screen then choose search, and the stations of corp hangers will show up, then it will ask me for an exact name, then it will update the stations with the assets. This might be just they way I use it but it seems to behave oddly like this. I'd prefer to go to the search tab, put in a name or keyword search and have it present the items found. I've just read this back and I find it hard to visualise. If required I'll fraps it and link.

(I did watch a fanfest video about user centred design and already I can see much more interest in usability - well done).
Noriko Mai
#48 - 2012-03-28 10:12:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Noriko Mai
I don't know if you are the right people to ask, but when will it be possible to search in your transactions the same way as in our assets?

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein
Jejju
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-03-28 10:20:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jejju
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


It currently doesn't work! In at least some cases searching using two keywords falsely returns no results. The implied AND operation is bugged.

Please explain what you know about the extent of this bug and any workarounds and give an ETA for a fix.
CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#50 - 2012-03-28 11:37:26 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
Very nice, but there are still some agents left for indexing. (Bug Report ID: 131343)
Luv u ui folks.



Thank you, we are looking into that.

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny
TorTorden
Tors shibari party
#51 - 2012-03-28 13:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: TorTorden
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


- Search for items which are inside containers, inside ship cargoholds, or fitted to a ship.
......
- Allow me to search through all of my alts' assets (yes I can wish).



that is technically possible now, although not easily since it involves pulling assets through the API for all parties and store it in a database and then query that...

OK not a practical solution for most people but this how I figure out where our pos fuel is.


But yeah at least corporate assets search is quite simply broken.
haven't been using the personal one much lately so can't really say on that one.
but the corporate assets search is as broken as everything else pertaining to corporation management.
BullMastiff
Appetite 4 Destruction
#52 - 2012-03-28 13:53:13 UTC
Can someone at CCP answer this? I will try to keep my animosity at check.

Q. Why are we dumbing down this game so much?
Q. Are we trying to get the WOW players to come over to EVE?

This game used to be hard to play. It was like the real world in a lot of circumstances. The market was ruthless, It was hard to make isk, so the adrenaline of a fight had your heart pumping. A long skill trained gave you a better advantage. You were rewarded for paying 15 dollars and the 30 days spent training that level 5 skill. The fights were manageable because every idiot in eve wasn't born with a battleship in his hanger. The gates into the dangerous yet profitable 0.0 were harder to get through. Everything was more realistic , even though the graphics weren't as good.

In life we don't call an oscilloscope, a frequency measuring thingamajig. Why do we have to make this game so simple? Is it because the worlds educational system is lowering the bar everyday so that Downs syndrome victims can make an A, so we lower the bar at EVE.

GUYS PLEASE. This has always been the thinking mans game. I'm seeing more and more brain rotted drunks and drug addicts applying to my corp. They are dumb as shite and are talking about wizards and shite.

COME ON, raise the bar back up. This game is the greatest ever created. Don't turn it mainstream because you need the capital so bad to fill your dream for it. The capital will come on . Quality comes from craftsmanship from quality men and women. When you turn it out too quick, you might as well be using Mexican and Chinese parts. Your turning this game from being a Boeing company into a Walmart.

Please I beg you to raise the bar.
Tek Handle
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#53 - 2012-03-28 14:32:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tek Handle
CCP Shiny wrote:
Well - since several have mentioned asset search, let's talk about that: What is it lacking currently from your point of view?


IMO, it'd be enough to apply the personal assets search engine/keyword thingy to the corporation assets search. Now you have to type an exact item type to search for but I just want to know if my corp owns an item having the entered search text in its name. Just make it flexible and useful.. maybe add some moar keywords as a replacement for all the drop-down lists.

Edit: In addition to that.. it would be awesome if one could find items which are located in a POS Corp Hangar, Assembly Array, Ammunition in Guns and so forth. I know that's already possible via the API (by item flags) so why am I not able to get a list of all that stuff in the game?
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#54 - 2012-03-28 16:02:52 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
Abdiel Kavash wrote:
CCP Ronin wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
would results sort themselves by most popular?

They're sorted by relevancy to the search term -- Searching for "Bob Jita" should list results like "Bob Jita" and "Jita Bob" above results like "Bobdudeman Awesome Jitalol".


So wait, does this mean that when I search for the character "Bob Jita" in the new search box, I get characters "Bob Jita", "Jita Bob", and the corp "Bober's Jita Supplies" included as results? I hope this is either a joke or there is a way to turn this "feature" off.


Hi - yes you can turn this off.
This search is "any" option in People&Places.
If you set the choice to be "characters" it'll only return characters as usual.

will be fun to see the forum fallout once this fuzzy search feature has caused some people to send all their isk to the wrong character which has almost but not quite the same name as their friend/alt.

maintaining an "exact"/"starts with" search mode is imho pretty important.
CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2012-03-28 18:17:53 UTC
BullMastiff wrote:
Can someone at CCP answer this? I will try to keep my animosity at check.

Q. Why are we dumbing down this game so much?
Q. Are we trying to get the WOW players to come over to EVE?

This game used to be hard to play. It was like the real world in a lot of circumstances. The market was ruthless, It was hard to make isk, so the adrenaline of a fight had your heart pumping. A long skill trained gave you a better advantage. You were rewarded for paying 15 dollars and the 30 days spent training that level 5 skill. The fights were manageable because every idiot in eve wasn't born with a battleship in his hanger. The gates into the dangerous yet profitable 0.0 were harder to get through. Everything was more realistic , even though the graphics weren't as good.

In life we don't call an oscilloscope, a frequency measuring thingamajig. Why do we have to make this game so simple? Is it because the worlds educational system is lowering the bar everyday so that Downs syndrome victims can make an A, so we lower the bar at EVE.

GUYS PLEASE. This has always been the thinking mans game. I'm seeing more and more brain rotted drunks and drug addicts applying to my corp. They are dumb as shite and are talking about wizards and shite.

COME ON, raise the bar back up. This game is the greatest ever created. Don't turn it mainstream because you need the capital so bad to fill your dream for it. The capital will come on . Quality comes from craftsmanship from quality men and women. When you turn it out too quick, you might as well be using Mexican and Chinese parts. Your turning this game from being a Boeing company into a Walmart.

Please I beg you to raise the bar.



Well, I wouldn't say that investing in localization dumbs down the game for anyone - it rather puts people on a level playing field.

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#56 - 2012-03-28 18:32:48 UTC
BullMastiff wrote:
Can someone at CCP answer this? I will try to keep my animosity at check.

Q. Why are we dumbing down this game so much?
Q. Are we trying to get the WOW players to come over to EVE?

This game used to be hard to play. It was like the real world in a lot of circumstances. The market was ruthless, It was hard to make isk, so the adrenaline of a fight had your heart pumping. A long skill trained gave you a better advantage. You were rewarded for paying 15 dollars and the 30 days spent training that level 5 skill. The fights were manageable because every idiot in eve wasn't born with a battleship in his hanger. The gates into the dangerous yet profitable 0.0 were harder to get through. Everything was more realistic , even though the graphics weren't as good.

In life we don't call an oscilloscope, a frequency measuring thingamajig. Why do we have to make this game so simple? Is it because the worlds educational system is lowering the bar everyday so that Downs syndrome victims can make an A, so we lower the bar at EVE.

GUYS PLEASE. This has always been the thinking mans game. I'm seeing more and more brain rotted drunks and drug addicts applying to my corp. They are dumb as shite and are talking about wizards and shite.

COME ON, raise the bar back up. This game is the greatest ever created. Don't turn it mainstream because you need the capital so bad to fill your dream for it. The capital will come on . Quality comes from craftsmanship from quality men and women. When you turn it out too quick, you might as well be using Mexican and Chinese parts. Your turning this game from being a Boeing company into a Walmart.

Please I beg you to raise the bar.


That's rather a long post to say you don't have any friends. I particularly loved the parts where you made fun of people who have DS, and then threw in some racism for spice.
JamDunc
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#57 - 2012-03-28 22:14:43 UTC
I really like the idea of universal search.

I spend way to much time messing about trying to find whatever I am looking for.

Thanks for adding this.
LoRDa RaMOs
Vicious Traditions
#58 - 2012-03-28 23:15:41 UTC
I just want to say that i won't search a single thing until this comes out of the oven...

Soooo awesome! Big smile
BullMastiff
Appetite 4 Destruction
#59 - 2012-03-29 18:34:03 UTC
i admit it was a rant, but its a rant i also hear daily in eve. As far as comparing a Down syndrome victim, well you get the point, dont you? As far as the racial part. Umm if it quacks like a duck , looks like a duck..... Are you telling me you would rather trust your life to equipment in Mexico or china as oppossed to say German engineering. Preach that real loud. lets see what the rest of the world thinks. I guess you might be one of the ones they are catering to.


On the flipside. CCP is doing way more that I think is very positive, and overall the game is still incredible. But my frustration comes from putting so much time into training over the years and having a 6 month old toon training a drake and bring a fordce to be reckoned with. Not everyone likes the huge blob warfare.

But after watching the film on the fanfest, the new mods and what they have planned for all the ships might just give the strategic minded the advantage again. We will see.

07
Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2012-03-30 19:03:46 UTC
I think this works, to have something like a universal translator for game content. Linked items should always appear to other clients in their language, regardless of who links them. You can still trade and contract, so it's the real world equivalent of pointing to objects. I already can't understand half the English written in chat channels, so having some German mixed in is no big deal ;)