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Proposed Destroyer/Battlecrusier Changes and Purists
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Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2012-03-25 15:39:00 UTC
Recknin wrote:
So once this change is implemented, will the Command Ships skill itself remain generic? Or will it also be split into 4? Just noticing that although the command ships themselves don't require BC5, learning the skill does. How will that play out?


I'm assuming they'll remain the same as all the t2 skills, such as Assault Ships and Heavy Assault ships as a 1 covers all 4 races.

I lied :o
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#42 - 2012-03-25 16:53:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
Drew Solaert wrote:
Recknin wrote:
So once this change is implemented, will the Command Ships skill itself remain generic? Or will it also be split into 4? Just noticing that although the command ships themselves don't require BC5, learning the skill does. How will that play out?


I'm assuming they'll remain the same as all the t2 skills, such as Assault Ships and Heavy Assault ships as a 1 covers all 4 races.


yep i think so too...


BTW any news on this topic from fanfest 2012?

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Recknin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2012-03-25 21:52:14 UTC
Drew Solaert wrote:

I'm assuming they'll remain the same as all the t2 skills, such as Assault Ships and Heavy Assault ships as a 1 covers all 4 races.


Ah, I knew I was forgetting something.
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#44 - 2012-03-25 23:20:21 UTC
i am also curious if there are new ships planned? the whole racial BC/destroyer ship class can also be to make some pirate/faction destroyers and BCs any news on that?

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Savage Creampuff
Vivid Entertainment Group
#45 - 2012-03-26 13:14:07 UTC
i have been told from unreliable sources that you will need the racial frig and cruiser skills, in addition to the battlecruiser skill, to have the new skills assigned. ie: if you can fly it, you will still be able to fly it.

since you don't actually need the frig or cruiser skill to train battlecruiser, what would happen if you have battlecruiser 5 but no racial frig/crusier pre-reqs?
OfBalance
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-03-26 17:31:25 UTC
Savage Creampuff wrote:
since you don't actually need the frig or cruiser skill to train battlecruiser, what would happen if you have battlecruiser 5 but no racial frig/crusier pre-reqs?


You wouldn't be able to "fly it before," so you wouldn't get the racial bc skills.

HTH
Kush Monster
Big Tobacco
#47 - 2012-03-26 21:15:13 UTC
Drew Solaert wrote:
Firstly I know everything is subject to change. I just wanted to see what other people thought about this specific piece of the change.

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

  • Q: can we opt out for skills we don't want during the reimbursement process?

    • A: well, again, it depends on how it is done. We may just bluntly give all four variants at V if you had battlecruiser V for example, or maybe require that you also add the relevant Cruiser skill trained at level 3 to be eligible. On the latter case, just don't train the cruiser 3 skill, and you should not receive the new racial battlecruiser at 5. Not sure why one would do that however, it's like skipping free candy or cake while visiting your grandma.

    Example:
  • If we go for option 1: you will get Amarr, Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar Battlecruiser skills at 5 if you previously had the generic Battlecruiser skill at 5.
  • If we go for option 2: you will get Amarr Battlecruiser skill at 5 only if you previously fulfilled all conditions to fly Amarr Battlecruisers, which means having the generic Battlecruiser skill at 5, PLUS the Amarr Cruiser at 3.

    • To remind it again, there are other options to consider, but no matter which one which choose, you won't lose anything out of the skill reimbursement plan.


    I know a lot of people (myself included) are purists or are pretty darn proud of their skill sheets. One might say a tad OCD. So if CCP did go with option 1 instead of option 2, Would it be a deal breaker?

    Personally I made this character for (lol)RP reasons to suddenly have Amarr BC4 Minmatar BC4 floating there with absolutely no support skills and no intention of every being trained would absolutely crush me, given how much time I've put into the character, not just playing but backstory and all that stuff.

    So thoughts ladies and gentlemen.


    a tad OCD you say?

    I can think of 3 reasons why this is going to be good:
    1. you wont get the skill unless you train for it.
    3. free sp!

    How to make mining enjoyable: An Autocannon, Faction Ammo, Your Mouth
    Savage Creampuff
    Vivid Entertainment Group
    #48 - 2012-03-27 10:18:26 UTC
    OfBalance wrote:
    Savage Creampuff wrote:
    since you don't actually need the frig or cruiser skill to train battlecruiser, what would happen if you have battlecruiser 5 but no racial frig/crusier pre-reqs?


    You wouldn't be able to "fly it before," so you wouldn't get the racial bc skills.

    HTH

    so your saying the sp would just be reimbursed since there wouldn't be a generic bc skill anymore?
    Ahaz Darkfall
    Division One Trade and Aquisition
    #49 - 2012-03-27 16:29:15 UTC
    Savage Creampuff wrote:
    OfBalance wrote:
    Savage Creampuff wrote:
    since you don't actually need the frig or cruiser skill to train battlecruiser, what would happen if you have battlecruiser 5 but no racial frig/crusier pre-reqs?


    You wouldn't be able to "fly it before," so you wouldn't get the racial bc skills.

    HTH

    so your saying the sp would just be reimbursed since there wouldn't be a generic bc skill anymore?


    from what I have read there is no reimbursement planed.

    Why would anyone one train BC to 5 with no racial cruiser skills?

    The racial skills are required to fly the BC's of each race, just not prerequisite of the BC skill.

    If you have BC trained to 5 but only have the racial skills trained to fly one race's BC then you will get that racial BC skill at 5. You will still be able to fly that one BC. If you want any other racial BC skill you will need to train frigate 4 plus cruiser 3 for that race. Then you would also get that race's BC skill at 5.

    As far as I am concerned the time it takes to train racial frigate 4 and cruiser 5 (less than a week per race) to get the racial BC skill for free to what ever level you now have BC trained to is a significant amount of free SP for very little effort. If you do not want all the races BC skills than do not train the prerequisites. For anyone even remotely interested in cross training this is a great deal. for those who do not want the skills you still lose nothing, but they are not going to just credit everyone with the skill points needed to train all 4 races to BC 5 and let you decide where to spend the points.

    I am working on the prerequisites for all races on all my characters even the non combat characters and will ensure all my combat characters have BC to 5 to maximize the benefit I will get from the change. Anyone who chooses not to will be choosing to not receive those free skill points. Your loss for your choice.
    El 1974
    Green Visstick High
    #50 - 2012-03-28 19:23:01 UTC
    I have a question.

    Command ships currently requires:

    1. Racial Cruiser V
    ...
    2. Command ships I
    2.1 Battle Cruisers V
    ...
    3. Heavy Assault Ships IV
    ...

    With BC becomming a racial skill something must change. It seems likely that:
    a. the requirement of BC V for the Command ships skill will be dropped
    b. Racial BC V will be a new requirement

    Now the question is whether they will simply add the racial BC V as a 4th requirement or let racial BC V replace racial Cr V as a requirement, which would mean that in the future you will only need racial Cruiser IV (the prerequisite for racial BC) rather than V to train for a specific command ship.
    Any opinions on this?
    Lost Greybeard
    Drunken Yordles
    #51 - 2012-03-29 20:34:29 UTC
    Savage Creampuff wrote:
    OfBalance wrote:
    Savage Creampuff wrote:
    since you don't actually need the frig or cruiser skill to train battlecruiser, what would happen if you have battlecruiser 5 but no racial frig/crusier pre-reqs?


    You wouldn't be able to "fly it before," so you wouldn't get the racial bc skills.

    HTH

    so your saying the sp would just be reimbursed since there wouldn't be a generic bc skill anymore?


    I believe you literally cannot inject the BC skill without a cruiser skill at 3 or 4, though it's been a while since I actually injected it. So by definition you can't possibly not have at least one BC racial prerequisite if you have the BC skill.
    Togrockz
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #52 - 2012-03-31 14:28:41 UTC
    any idea when this patch is gonna take place?
    Clementina
    University of Caille
    #53 - 2012-04-01 05:00:16 UTC
    I do not know when the patch will take place, However I'm training Battlecruisers 5 to be able to take as much advantage as my character can. Wondering if I should learn Minmatar Cruisers 3 though.

    Also looking at the skill tree, the only thing you need to train Battlecruisers is Spaceship command 4. Granted, people are smart, and so wouldn't train battlecruisers without a racial cruiser skill, but it is possible.
    Mara Pahrdi
    The Order of Anoyia
    #54 - 2012-04-01 06:43:20 UTC
    Clementina wrote:
    I do not know when the patch will take place, However I'm training Battlecruisers 5 to be able to take as much advantage as my character can. Wondering if I should learn Minmatar Cruisers 3 though.

    Also looking at the skill tree, the only thing you need to train Battlecruisers is Spaceship command 4. Granted, people are smart, and so wouldn't train battlecruisers without a racial cruiser skill, but it is possible.

    CCP scheduled Inferno for May here.

    Difficult to predict though, how much of the skill and ship redesign will be implemented in the first patch of the new expansion.

    Right after the announcement, I rescheduled skill training for characters crosstraining, so everything will be done before may.

    Remove standings and insurance.
    Eofina
    Republic Military School
    Minmatar Republic
    #55 - 2012-04-01 08:56:21 UTC
    Torak Dakos wrote:
    why complain about giving free SP away, yes the number next to SP will grow but the pilot have exact same ability's as before -.-

    i


    This, and if anything more SP might mean more ISK for a higher Medical Clone.

    Or did I just open another can of worms? What?
    Justa Altlol
    Doomheim
    #56 - 2012-04-01 14:15:04 UTC
    I hope they go with method #2. I'd rather not have skills I never plan to use cluttering up my skill window and making my clones more expensive.
    Sunviking
    Doomheim
    #57 - 2012-04-01 21:01:53 UTC
    I think a character should only get new Racial Battlecruiser skill to 5 if they already have Racial Cruiser skill to 5. Otherwise lots of people will get free access to Command Ships they cannot currently fly.
    Sunviking
    Doomheim
    #58 - 2012-04-01 21:05:08 UTC
    Ellendras Silver wrote:
    i am also curious if there are new ships planned? the whole racial BC/destroyer ship class can also be to make some pirate/faction destroyers and BCs any news on that?


    You wouldn't find me flying a Drake Navy Issue.
    Xlera
    Sebiestor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #59 - 2012-04-01 22:13:12 UTC
    Ellendras Silver wrote:
    i am also curious if there are new ships planned? the whole racial BC/destroyer ship class can also be to make some pirate/faction destroyers and BCs any news on that?


    they said they want to add more destroyers if they can find a role for them as having a skill which only enables 1 ship is going to be silly.
    Mohamad Transporte
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #60 - 2012-04-03 13:22:37 UTC
    I think the whole revamp thing is really a good idea overall, especially with the idea , however, i wish that:

    1. Like mentioned before: Factional BC would be nice (however, not overpower the tank of BS, or dps of a sleipner)

    2. Give more tank and drone capacity for marauders & stealth warping ability to black ops .. (aka make it worth to train for)