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Poll: Should "freeze/lock" overview when mouseover be optional?
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shadowgirl9
We Aim To MisBehave
Kenshin Shogunate.
#21 - 2012-03-28 13:25:16 UTC
was happy with ctrl to freeze
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-03-28 13:25:17 UTC
Arakazzi wrote:
You're a little late. There was a survey about the UI changhes not long ago. My answers were "mostly positive".


I gave it negative, only on account of that single feature, everything else was a huge improvement, specially after they made the new targets show up instantly instead on next refresh (1 sec later)... something which I also complained about and am happy to say is not a problem anymore

and for the "Works fine" people... it worked fine before, works less fine now

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#23 - 2012-03-28 13:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Misanth
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Yes it should be optional.

I also totally don't get people who say No to this. How is optional worse than rigidly enforced? I personally prefer the old way of holding down a hotkey to freeze it and keep it frozen as long as I need to, instead of current 2 seconds after the mouse stops.


Last autumn/winter CCP asked for our feedback regarding development and the future of EVE. I suggested that CCP should try to add more customization/options for us to control how we play/set up after our preferences, rather than being forced to do X or Y. CCP Punkturis (or whatever her name is) replied that she disagreed, that options was not usually better in any way. She never stated why tho, just said she disagreed and that was that. What?

But yeah, I don't get it either. If some want mouseover freeze and others don't, what could be bad by having it optional? The same applies for many other features/settings in the game.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
snake pies
Dixon Cox Butte Preservation Society
#24 - 2012-03-28 13:38:17 UTC
optional
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2012-03-28 13:51:15 UTC
Glad to see so much support, the overview is afterall one of the most important windows in eve for almost everything outside a station... PvP and such

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Rahnim
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2012-03-28 15:50:52 UTC
Make it optional!
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#27 - 2012-03-28 16:02:50 UTC
Discussions of locks are prohibited.

Oh crap, I said it myself!

I do vote for optional overview freeze though with each option the UI gets more complex to maintain, so don't expect this anytime soon.

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Mufa Jaynara
Pro Synergy
#28 - 2012-03-28 16:58:19 UTC
Make Optional!!!
Chokichi Ozuwara
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-03-28 17:41:27 UTC
They aren't going to change it back. This is one thing that really pissed me off at CCP and if I get to a fanfest, they are going to get an earful about it

This was a stupid change, and they have avoided all criticism of it, and it barely surprises me that they would say people like it, because its not like there are dozens of posts here complaining about it

I really had a lot of respect for CCP when I first started playing Eve, but this thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I can take the fail launchers and broken game mechanics, but when you start forcing me to mouse to avoid a feature, that's the final straw

Anyway, they don't care if they screw up my game experience.

Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round.
Bayushi Tamago
Sect of the Crimson Eisa
#30 - 2012-03-28 17:58:49 UTC
Optional overview lock: Yes. Hasn't really benefitted me
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#31 - 2012-03-28 18:00:42 UTC
No, its awesome and making it optional means that CCP has to maintain extra code paths. This makes the code slower and buggier.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#32 - 2012-03-28 18:02:01 UTC
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:
They aren't going to change it back. This is one thing that really pissed me off at CCP and if I get to a fanfest, they are going to get an earful about it

This was a stupid change, and they have avoided all criticism of it, and it barely surprises me that they would say people like it, because its not like there are dozens of posts here complaining about it

I really had a lot of respect for CCP when I first started playing Eve, but this thing left a bad taste in my mouth. I can take the fail launchers and broken game mechanics, but when you start forcing me to mouse to avoid a feature, that's the final straw

Anyway, they don't care if they screw up my game experience.


Works great for me. If I had my mouse over the overview the game previously forced me to hold the ctrl key to get predictable performance out of my overview. Now I just mouse over and select what I want. Works fantastically.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#33 - 2012-03-28 18:07:17 UTC
Misanth wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Yes it should be optional.

I also totally don't get people who say No to this. How is optional worse than rigidly enforced? I personally prefer the old way of holding down a hotkey to freeze it and keep it frozen as long as I need to, instead of current 2 seconds after the mouse stops.


Last autumn/winter CCP asked for our feedback regarding development and the future of EVE. I suggested that CCP should try to add more customization/options for us to control how we play/set up after our preferences, rather than being forced to do X or Y. CCP Punkturis (or whatever her name is) replied that she disagreed, that options was not usually better in any way. She never stated why tho, just said she disagreed and that was that. What?

But yeah, I don't get it either. If some want mouseover freeze and others don't, what could be bad by having it optional? The same applies for many other features/settings in the game.


There's lots problems with mass customization (From the top of my head):
- Extra code paths implies more bugs
- Extra code paths implies slower code
- Extra code paths implies higher development costs - sometimes dramatically.
- Extra UI options force massively higher QA costs as there are more edge cases
- Extra options provide extra complexity to the UI (starting with how to provide "obvious" toggles)
- Extra options don't always provide for a superior UI experience (see Apple - regardless of how you personally feel about it)
- Extra options means setting up a new client can take hours, days, weeks, or even months to get all the options set back up just right
- Extra options fragment the community in a similar way to all the UI mods for WOW/Rift/etc.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Shpenat
Ironman Inc.
#34 - 2012-03-28 18:22:48 UTC
Was going to post that too many options complicate the code and makes QA a nightmare. Also people hates too many options. But is seems Liang beat me to it.

SO the answer is No.
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-03-28 18:31:24 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
Misanth wrote:
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:
Yes it should be optional.

I also totally don't get people who say No to this. How is optional worse than rigidly enforced? I personally prefer the old way of holding down a hotkey to freeze it and keep it frozen as long as I need to, instead of current 2 seconds after the mouse stops.


Last autumn/winter CCP asked for our feedback regarding development and the future of EVE. I suggested that CCP should try to add more customization/options for us to control how we play/set up after our preferences, rather than being forced to do X or Y. CCP Punkturis (or whatever her name is) replied that she disagreed, that options was not usually better in any way. She never stated why tho, just said she disagreed and that was that. What?

But yeah, I don't get it either. If some want mouseover freeze and others don't, what could be bad by having it optional? The same applies for many other features/settings in the game.


There's lots problems with mass customization (From the top of my head):
- Extra code paths implies more bugs
- Extra code paths implies slower code
- Extra code paths implies higher development costs - sometimes dramatically.
- Extra UI options force massively higher QA costs as there are more edge cases
- Extra options provide extra complexity to the UI (starting with how to provide "obvious" toggles)
- Extra options don't always provide for a superior UI experience (see Apple - regardless of how you personally feel about it)
- Extra options means setting up a new client can take hours, days, weeks, or even months to get all the options set back up just right
- Extra options fragment the community in a similar way to all the UI mods for WOW/Rift/etc.

-Liang


you make it sound like turning the locking of the overview off/on is the hardest thing in the world, now you proberly have no problem with the overview as it is now... this whole mouseover thing, but it becomes a problem when you use it for pvp... alot!

If you found it an inconvienience before because you had to press the locking key... while trying to lock something... to make the overview lock... well words can't discribe how lazy you must be... but when the overview locks every single time, instead of only when you want it to... then its a problem for everyone who dislikes it... even if people are fine with it under normal circumstances... its really really ****** in some other circumstances

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-03-28 18:32:06 UTC
Shpenat wrote:
Was going to post that too many options complicate the code and makes QA a nightmare. Also people hates too many options. But is seems Liang beat me to it.

SO the answer is No.


okay, then simply turn it off, remove the feature...

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#37 - 2012-03-28 18:39:47 UTC
Bubanni wrote:

you make it sound like turning the locking of the overview off/on is the hardest thing in the world, now you proberly have no problem with the overview as it is now... this whole mouseover thing, but it becomes a problem when you use it for pvp... alot!

If you found it an inconvienience before because you had to press the locking key... while trying to lock something... to make the overview lock... well words can't discribe how lazy you must be... but when the overview locks every single time, instead of only when you want it to... then its a problem for everyone who dislikes it... even if people are fine with it under normal circumstances... its really really ****** in some other circumstances


I'm sorry, do you think I'm some kind of -10 high sec carebear or something? All I do is PVP - literally. If I am logged into Eve I'm looking for a fight. Also QQ Moar Noob - it isn't changing back.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Bubanni
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2012-03-28 18:47:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bubanni
Liang Nuren wrote:
Bubanni wrote:

you make it sound like turning the locking of the overview off/on is the hardest thing in the world, now you proberly have no problem with the overview as it is now... this whole mouseover thing, but it becomes a problem when you use it for pvp... alot!

If you found it an inconvienience before because you had to press the locking key... while trying to lock something... to make the overview lock... well words can't discribe how lazy you must be... but when the overview locks every single time, instead of only when you want it to... then its a problem for everyone who dislikes it... even if people are fine with it under normal circumstances... its really really ****** in some other circumstances


I'm sorry, do you think I'm some kind of -10 high sec carebear or something? All I do is PVP - literally. If I am logged into Eve I'm looking for a fight. Also QQ Moar Noob - it isn't changing back.

-Liang


I will QQ until it's either made optional or turned off... and I did check your killboard to figure out if it was because you were a high sec carebear or not, I do see you pvp in low sec a little... but you obviously havn't experienced the annoyance the locking can give

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#39 - 2012-03-28 18:51:16 UTC
Bubanni wrote:

I will QQ until it's either made optional or turned off... and I did check your killboard to figure out if it was because you were a high sec carebear or not, I do see you pvp in low sec a little... but you obviously havn't experienced the annoyance the locking can give


You obviously have a closed mind and refuse to change. Stop sucking.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#40 - 2012-03-28 18:54:39 UTC
I don't like it at all as I was a CTRL user. I would hazard a guess that this is a partial cripple to some botting apps though, much like the loss of 'widescreen' crippled some OCR bots for a whole two days before they found a work around.

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"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
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