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Wardec Changes = Nothing but Large POS

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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-28 05:18:00 UTC
So CCP is going to change to dec system so that you can no longer scrape a dec with a dec shield. Also, there is going to be a price break for deccing small corps (they're going to a base price + target member count system). We will also be getting extreme rigs and drone damage mods.

From what I can see, this pretty much spells the end of any high sec POSes smaller than larges, and even those might be in trouble. Sentry drone pretty much make ECM mods useless. If Sentries start doing descent damage all you've really got as a deterrent is a large enough amount of EHP.

This change really needs to happen with a POS overhaul. You think inflations bad now, wait until we start loosing a bunch of industrial capacity.
Maria Yumeno
Venomous Cloud
Scorned Syndicate
#2 - 2012-03-28 07:31:35 UTC
Source?
Aubrey Addams
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-28 08:57:13 UTC

why? if i know correctly, now its 2mill to wardec some1, but it will be 20+mill in the future.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#4 - 2012-03-28 09:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.

Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#5 - 2012-03-28 10:01:32 UTC
It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Rengerel en Distel
#6 - 2012-03-28 11:10:01 UTC
As much as i'd like to worry about the changes coming in the winter expansion, i'd rather worry about the summer one first. Actually, i'll wait until they actually post something beyond a roundtable.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-03-28 11:19:40 UTC
Rigs and Drone damage mods?


For non sentry drones too? About time.
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#8 - 2012-03-28 13:15:55 UTC
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down

And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#9 - 2012-03-28 13:44:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Krixtal Icefluxor
Jurinak wrote:
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down

And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?



It's not the cost. It's the hassle of re-anchoring, etc. Roll

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#10 - 2012-03-28 13:46:57 UTC
Jurinak wrote:
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down

And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?


And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition.
Jurinak
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-03-28 14:05:19 UTC
Aurel Svenson wrote:
Jurinak wrote:
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down

And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?


And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition.


Yes the Tower is the only thing you loose, you can unanchor the labs when wardec is incomming or you can gamble if the attack the tower or not, its your joice. The only thing what happens is that you feel a little bit annoyed by anchor and unanchor and maybe you loose a longrun copy job

If you thing all this is to bad to do it then feel free to use NPC Station, then you have to wait a little bit or buy copy and research from someone else


And again there are no juggernauts with "YARRRRR we destroy all your Highsectower!!!!11111"

It is boring, it happens from time to time but not on a regular basis. And if it happens and you have no friends then hire merc or unanchor your labs whatever, its not 100% save anymore and that is fine
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#12 - 2012-03-28 14:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
Jurinak wrote:
Aurel Svenson wrote:
Jurinak wrote:
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down

And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?


And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition.


Yes the Tower is the only thing you loose, you can unanchor the labs when wardec is incomming or you can gamble if the attack the tower or not, its your joice. The only thing what happens is that you feel a little bit annoyed by anchor and unanchor and maybe you loose a longrun copy job

If you thing all this is to bad to do it then feel free to use NPC Station, then you have to wait a little bit or buy copy and research from someone else


And again there are no juggernauts with "YARRRRR we destroy all your Highsectower!!!!11111"

It is boring, it happens from time to time but not on a regular basis. And if it happens and you have no friends then hire merc or unanchor your labs whatever, its not 100% save anymore and that is fine


Heh, hadn't considered the period between the wardec and the siege. I'll quietly bow out now... You could remove the tower too, couldn't you, and just lose the spot?

Maybe I should do smaller build orders at once and do it in multiple 24 hour jobs...
bornaa
GRiD.
#13 - 2012-03-28 14:34:36 UTC  |  Edited by: bornaa
This all ****** new war dec system is putting a barrier so that you cant war dec goons or test because it will cost you 5 BILLION isk per week.

You see, CCP want to secure large alliances from decs and screw smaller corps/alliances so that large one can easily attack them directly or with alt corps.
And as i can see, they are really struggling to kill industry in EVE - no fixes or upgrades for indy players for years while making better ganking ships and now they want make so that everybody war decs them.

Nice one CCP. Roll


And one more thing,
when you are attacked you can't do anything about it.
Attacker can easily get out of it - even if CCP is advertising this will make war more of commitment - yea, commitment for indy and smal corps to be screwed.
[Yes, I'm an Amateur](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRa-69uBmIw&feature=relmfu)
Kirith Vespira
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#14 - 2012-03-28 16:08:50 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
So CCP is going to change to dec system so that you can no longer scrape a dec with a dec shield. Also, there is going to be a price break for deccing small corps (they're going to a base price + target member count system). We will also be getting extreme rigs and drone damage mods.

From what I can see, this pretty much spells the end of any high sec POSes smaller than larges, and even those might be in trouble. Sentry drone pretty much make ECM mods useless. If Sentries start doing descent damage all you've really got as a deterrent is a large enough amount of EHP.

This change really needs to happen with a POS overhaul. You think inflations bad now, wait until we start loosing a bunch of industrial capacity.


Please cite a Dev Blog for your announcement.

Thanks.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#15 - 2012-03-28 16:28:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurel Svenson
Since you're allowed to bring in allies, defensive alliances could offer a great deal of protection. It would be great if they could formalize that. If some bullies are working over POS owners, it's in the interest of local POS owners to contribute mercs to the conflict and make sure the aggressors never enter the system(s) again. And POS owners don't tend to be poor, so it should be manageable...

Just need to overcome the bystander effect.

Maybe a system could even hire a merc corp to set up shop full time, running their missions nearby and joining any wars that threaten the system.
Avila Cracko
#16 - 2012-03-28 16:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Avila Cracko
I am all against this ****** "lets **** small and indy corps" changes.

source, FanFest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u0H3WA_UYA



And, listen to questions that people asked on the end.
They all was worried about changes, and CCP gave the same lame answer.

truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Ajita al Tchar
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-03-28 17:37:43 UTC
Personally, I would like to know how CCP would like to address the very real possibility of someone just making over 9000 trial account characters to inflate corp membership. If trial accounts are to be excluded from some "internal" member count, then it's not that difficult to convert these accounts into subscribing accounts with the PLEX deal for a month and then ditch them, it still won't cost you anything other than time taken to do so.

Determining "inactive" member count and basing stuff off of that seems like it might not work so well. I mean, someone really dedicated and bored could just keep cranking out trial account alts and removing those who are past their "free" play time from the corp, thus keeping high numbers of fake active members by logging them in every once in a while.

Anyway, still seems exploitable What?
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-03-28 18:00:22 UTC
Aurel Svenson wrote:
20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.

Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done.


So by deccing one group you can get a target rich environment? Same reason people dec goons now even though it costs billions, you're assured to get some kills.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#19 - 2012-03-28 18:31:10 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Aurel Svenson wrote:
20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.

Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done.


So by deccing one group you can get a target rich environment? Same reason people dec goons now even though it costs billions, you're assured to get some kills.


Hmm, good point. I guess the group could submit money for a single large merc hire so that only one target is vulnerable but there's still collective defense.
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#20 - 2012-03-28 18:50:23 UTC
Whilst I certainly have some concerns about the proposed changes, many of which are noted above, it's worth keeping some context.

Dec shields were only quite recently moved to non-exploit status.

So a year or so ago, with dec shield an exploit, what did it take to dec a small research pos corp?
If memory serves, 2 million isk dec fee and a 48 hour wait.

With the propsed changes what will it take to dec a small research pos corp?
If I've read things right, it'll take c.20 million isk dec fee and a 24 hour wait.


Given that small and medium POS owning baby research corps existed a year ago quite happily - that is they got stomped on if unlucky/stupid/wrong place, wrong time but otherwise were overlooked - I can't really see this situation changing much under the proposed system. Ie. it's cheap and easy to stomp on small corps and their space assets, just as it (mostly) always has been.
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