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Fanfest: Factional Warfare

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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#201 - 2012-03-28 11:30:54 UTC
Ranshe wrote:
Well the point is, someone should come to defend it.

People do come to defend if they know when/where and it isn't suicide .. problem is the same as in null really in that the militias all have a "strong" time and RF timers can't really address that. You end up with alarm-clock scenarios (never going to happen in FW) or it being 'just a second grind'
Ranshe wrote:
You have a better idea which accomplishes the same things but without any drawbacks of RF timers? I'm pretty sure CCP would welcome it, because they themselves don't really have any. Like I wrote before - it's not good, but it works.

Carrier/SC suggestion below accomplishes it .. it can still be blitzed of course, but should be a bit harder (and hopefully more fun) than dropping a handful of dreads on a box and be gone before the enemy has even acquired an accurate ship count

My ultimate solution to this particular problem however involves neither NPCs nor timers, only time;
- When a system goes vulnerable it is announced to opposing militia once in chat but also in militia interface
- System automatically flips after 3-4 hours,
Attacker will have to prevent loss of plexes for an extended period of time = no blitzing and potential for a torrent of blood
Ranshe wrote:
So what's the problem then? It's not like you don't have any time to evac stuff, right? (Asking seriously)[/quote
My opposition to the speed flip system is that it makes plexing completely inconsequential, it is station ping-pong but with systems
[quote=Ranshe]And this, not so much. Or rather, it sounds very cool, but with 4 militias and a ton of systems in FW zones, it would require a lot of additional work force for ISD/GM team, making it quite unrealistic to happen. But it's kind of cool. :)

One system per side per fortnight/month. Two or three news blurps/announcements typed up together with each mini-event .. hardly a crippling workload
Hell, you can probably get away with just doing the text bit and letting the taskforce(s) be left in the hands of the Incursion AI, just keep hoping that I can somehow manipulate CCP into putting the RPG back onto the MMO Big smile
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#202 - 2012-03-28 12:02:12 UTC
Veshta Yoshida wrote:
People do come to defend if they know when/where and it isn't suicide .. problem is the same as in null really in that the militias all have a "strong" time and RF timers can't really address that. You end up with alarm-clock scenarios (never going to happen in FW) or it being 'just a second grind'


I don't really get what you're trying to say here.

If you set up the RF timer for your strong timezone, how do you end up with an alarm-clock scenario? The whole point of the RF timer mechanic is not having to wake up in the middle of the night, because someone is destroying your stuff while you're sleeping, is it not?

Quote:

My ultimate solution to this particular problem however involves neither NPCs nor timers, only time;
- When a system goes vulnerable it is announced to opposing militia once in chat but also in militia interface
- System automatically flips after 3-4 hours,
Attacker will have to prevent loss of plexes for an extended period of time = no blitzing and potential for a torrent of blood


That would only work for a single timezone, and we don't have this luxury in Eve. With 6-8 hours difference, what's to stop EU TZ people from timing things so the announcement goes off on about 16 GMT when most of the US TZ folks would be in school/work/uni/wherever and it will be finished by the time they are back and online.

Quote:
One system per side per fortnight/month. Two or three news blurps/announcements typed up together with each mini-event .. hardly a crippling workload


Why only one per side per month? Isn't that a completely superficial and weird limit, just because "we have only one guy to deal with this"? That's a slowest war ever.

Quote:
Hell, you can probably get away with just doing the text bit and letting the taskforce(s) be left in the hands of the Incursion AI, just keep hoping that I can somehow manipulate CCP into putting the RPG back onto the MMO Big smile


Then there's a requirement of the attacker being under fire from both the NPCs and the defender, which requires numbers.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#203 - 2012-03-28 13:00:10 UTC
Sentinel Mantik wrote:
May i re-post my idea from the Fanfest-Panel thread (please discuss here, it is easier to follow one thread)

Sentinel Mantik wrote:
What about two stations (One for each militia) in a FW System.

Militiants only can dock in their station.
The stations are camped by NPC of the occupancy holder (makes docking/undocking harder but not impossible)
The NPC scale with the occupancy level
Neutrals can't dock on any of those stations

This is war-territory. If you won't be in a melitia, then GTFO of that System!

This should be WAR and not highsec or 0.0


Is this an option for some of you?


If you ever tried to be an Outlaw, you know all of lowsec is connected in a bigger 'circle', something you use for roaming PvP. Locking out "Militia space" means that pirates (or anti-pirates that had their sec drop, not too uncommon) etc will be forced into smaller parts of space. I could go into more details, but let's just say, lowsec is already quite hard on them, no reason to make it even tougher and less appealing.

FW and Outlaws share space, it's that simple, and it's a passage to null from high. It should be for everyone.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#204 - 2012-03-28 13:00:51 UTC
The system now is working for one simple reason: It reflects actual occupancy. Gallente occupy (read: base out of) Nenna, Rakapas, and Nisuwa, (and Agoze, Vlillirier, Heyd). Caldari occupy Fliet and Intaki (and Eha, Enaluri, Rakapas). Amarr occupy Auga (and Kamela, and ??) Minmatar occupy Arzad, Huola (and ??). Now go look at the map.

The main reason there are more plexs fights now is that 1) the after-DT advantage has been mitigated, 2) people can actually conquer a system in a reasonable amount of time, and 3) there is a sense of urgency - if you don't defend NOW your system will flip.

Reinforcement timers on bunkers are great in theory but... this isn't ghey null sec where lack of any sense of urgency allows "pvpers" to stay docked up or make isk afk 40 jumps away when a gang comes into their system looking for troublle. If your side can't muster the forces to defend a bunker, or plex, then too bad. You lose. Get out your plexing ships, and try to take it back tomorrow.

I can guarantee that if reinforcement timers are put on bunkers, then plexing will return to a has-been activity performed by alts and diehards it was before December because they would make taking systems nearly impossible. "Hope" at accomplishing a goal leads to attack. Attack leads to conflict. Conflict leads to fights. No hope of capturng a system, no attack. No attack, no fights.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#205 - 2012-03-28 13:08:29 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I can guarantee that if reinforcement timers are put on bunkers, then plexing will return to a has-been activity performed by alts and diehards it was before December because they would make taking systems nearly impossible. "Hope" at accomplishing a goal leads to attack. Attack leads to conflict. Conflict leads to fights. No hope of capturng a system, no attack. No attack, no fights.


I can't comment on the first part, not been in FW since those last changes. But I can say this:

Attack leads to conflict, and conflicts to fight, yes. That's the same all across EVE in every zone.
What you can change however, is the incentitives to attack. You want it to be 'capturing a system', basicly it's the same as in null, wh, hell even highsec, 'control of space'. For smaller scale PvP, and faster pace, easy-action, I think you need another incentitive: how about simply moving the PvE benefits (LP, isk etc) and tie it to flipping bunkers or similar?

It's not radial or a new suggestion, there are balance issues that needs to be brought up, but it should be a viable alternative to structure grinds, blobs, and it would kill off the silly PvE focus the FW have had for quite a while.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#206 - 2012-03-28 13:20:21 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
this isn't ghey null sec where lack of any sense of urgency allows "pvpers" to stay docked up or make isk afk 40 jumps away when a gang comes into their system looking for troublle.


And what does this have to do with RF timers? This is just you disliking null and running away because "waaaah nullsec is coming at me, it's all gonna be nullsec". ;P

Quote:
3) there is a sense of urgency - if you don't defend NOW your system will flip.


Sense of urgency is all good and rainbows, if the flipping of my system happens during my timezone. Because if it's not, I'm at work or sleeping and not even there to defend.

Quote:
I can guarantee that if reinforcement timers are put on bunkers, then plexing will return to a has-been activity performed by alts and diehards it was before December because they would make taking systems nearly impossible.


How would it be nearly impossible? Because of fights happening on the bunkers when the RF timer ends? Please tell us more.
Sentinel Mantik
Second Star
#207 - 2012-03-28 13:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Sentinel Mantik
Misanth wrote:


If you ever tried to be an Outlaw, you know all of lowsec is connected in a bigger 'circle', something you use for roaming PvP. Locking out "Militia space" means that pirates (or anti-pirates that had their sec drop, not too uncommon) etc will be forced into smaller parts of space. I could go into more details, but let's just say, lowsec is already quite hard on them, no reason to make it even tougher and less appealing.

FW and Outlaws share space, it's that simple, and it's a passage to null from high. It should be for everyone.


I realy thought about that, but if i think about what in reality works... if one army invades a enemy teretory they try to lock out the enemy from what they conquer (Camp, District, City...) If there are some more or less hostile citizens they can do there business but not siting in the home of the army's. they mostly have their own.

I dont want to split lowsec in normal low and fw low but to give neutrals the posibility to enter a militian station is nothing i think is helpfull. maybe there could also be netural stations where you as a militiant cant enter or if you attack near that station as melitiant you get agressed by the station-guns?

In the Assembly Hall is a good thread about making the controlbunker as a militia only station for the occupancy holder. That for example could also be a good idea (even if it was not mine Blink )

Minmatar 4 life

German player.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#208 - 2012-03-28 13:34:32 UTC
Ranshe wrote:
I don't really get what you're trying to say here.

What I am saying is that if you use the same schema as in null you end up with a lot of nothing. Reinforced exit either comes when opponent is no where to be seen or when your side is catching Zzzzz's .. to hit those golden hours where sides are roughly equal is impossible unless one alarm-clocks. RF is a curse on/in Eve.
Ranshe wrote:
That would only work for a single timezone...

Not at all, since plexes are glorious things and militias are not near as homogeneous as null. Enemy catch you while most of your buddies sleep? Send in a strike team composed specifically to capture a certain plex size, if you win it system has to be made vulnerable again, resetting the timer .. thus hitting your strong tz regardless .. if you lose then you reship, try another size plex, etc. ... basically have fun killing each other.
- Idea is to make offensive moves require more than a few orbiting alts + a large mobile gang for a total of thirty minutes.
Ranshe wrote:
Why only one per side per month? Isn't that a completely superficial and weird limit, just because "we have only one guy to deal with this"? That's a slowest war ever.

Systems will still fall everywhere, momentum of the war is changed only by the general decrease in plex spawns I mentioned. One "special" capture target every 2-4 weeks (note the fortnight in there) is merely a suggested pace, too fast and it becomes too much .. too slow and they'll largely be ignored. Frequency is irrelevant as long as it doesn't go for either extreme.
- Idea is to add something that makes us forget that we are in essence grinding worthless occupancy .. no amount of incentives will yield that 'feeling'.
Ranshe wrote:
Then there's a requirement of the attacker being under fire from both the NPCs and the defender, which requires numbers.

Or one could code the AI to remain passive or even warp out (except the Carrier/SC) when a certain number of friendlies arrive .. obviously abusable by alts, but most of us actually want the fights so by my estimation any such abusers will be laughed/drummed out in quick order.

Not even sure why I/We bother thinking of alternative actually, CCP seem convinced that all FW needs is to be Null-Lite and the Unicorns will start belching rainbows again. Personally abhor excessive blobbage, inane drama and EHP grinds (all grinds for that matter), but I also realise that it cannot be avoided so my ideas aim to minimize it where possible.
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#209 - 2012-03-28 14:44:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranshe
I've cut out the RF timers discussion, I see your point, though I doubt we could convince each other, so no reason of posting on that topic just to post something. :)

Veshta Yoshida wrote:
Systems will still fall everywhere, momentum of the war is changed only by the general decrease in plex spawns I mentioned. One "special" capture target every 2-4 weeks (note the fortnight in there) is merely a suggested pace, too fast and it becomes too much .. too slow and they'll largely be ignored. Frequency is irrelevant as long as it doesn't go for either extreme.
- Idea is to add something that makes us forget that we are in essence grinding worthless occupancy .. no amount of incentives will yield that 'feeling'.


Ah, so the live event stuff is not supposed to be a complete replacement of the system, only an improvement from time to time? That would totally work.

Ranshe wrote:
Or one could code the AI to remain passive or even warp out (except the Carrier/SC) when a certain number of friendlies arrive .. obviously abusable by alts, but most of us actually want the fights so by my estimation any such abusers will be laughed/drummed out in quick order.


They actually talked about doing stuff like this, but more in regard to plex NPCs, so they serve as something to do while no living person comes to stop you from plexing. This would be pretty cool.

Quote:
CCP seem convinced that all FW needs is to be Null-Lite and the Unicorns will start belching rainbows again.


I see it rather as doing something so FW is meaningful.

I'm not a fan of FW being called a "stepping stone to null", though, because FW can very well be an endgame in itself - after all this is a sandbox and if I want to crush all these Minnies under my heel, I'd better be able to do it, or at least try. But I can see why CCP calls it this way - after all, no matter how much hate we can pour on nullsec, it's one of the places where the big empire creating stuff happens.

They can call it Null-lite or whatever they want, as long as it will be fun.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#210 - 2012-03-28 14:55:26 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Ranshe wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
this isn't ghey null sec where lack of any sense of urgency allows "pvpers" to stay docked up or make isk afk 40 jumps away when a gang comes into their system looking for troublle.


And what does this have to do with RF timers? This is just you disliking null and running away because "waaaah nullsec is coming at me, it's all gonna be nullsec". ;P

RF timers remove any sense of urgency to mount a timely (within an hour, or minutes) response. They encourage numerically large forces to assemble at a leisurely pace at a time of their choosing, and discourages rapid response forces that must learn to assemble quickly. The latter (rapid response, quicker action) is more fun. Next question.

w.r.t "nearly impossible" - The other side would set reinforcement timer to their primetime, giving them a big advantage. For example, Gallente would set the reinforcement timer to USTZ, and the Caldari would set the RF timer to just before downtime. No system would flip because each is dominant in that timezone. No hope = no plex fights = boredom.
Doddy
Excidium.
#211 - 2012-03-28 15:05:14 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
The devs need to look at the mechanics used in Incursions. Great opportunities there on how to fight for control (incursionbar working up to MOM), how to organize places to set battlegrounds (like how shiny fleets compete at Vanguards), how to handout LP (no payout for blobbing), and how to track the status of contested systems (journal).

Incursions have proven to be an exceptional tool to achieve a mutual in-goal by crowdsourcing.


This tbh, incursions where one faction of players can actively aid the incursion, much like pro sansha players wish incursions could be.
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#212 - 2012-03-28 15:09:47 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
RF timers remove any sense of urgency to mount a timely (within an hour, or minutes) response. They encourage numerically large forces to assemble at a leisurely pace at a time of their choosing, and discourages rapid response forces that must learn to assemble quickly. The latter (rapid response, quicker action) is more fun. Next question.

w.r.t "nearly impossible" - The other side would set reinforcement timer to their primetime, giving them a big advantage. For example, Gallente would set the reinforcement timer to USTZ, and the Caldari would set the RF timer to just before downtime. No system would flip because each is dominant in that timezone. No hope = no plex fights = boredom.


Well, that's obvious. Everyone wants to fight when they're online. Problems like this are the price of Eve being one of the few single-shard MMO games.

But I still see a little contradiction in your reply.

How does the rapid response and quick action work if Gallente attack a system in USTZ? If, as you say, Caldari have no to little presence in that timezone, and can't respond with a similar force at all? Isn't that a big advantage for the attackers?
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#213 - 2012-03-28 15:20:23 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:

The main reason there are more plexs fights now is that 1) the after-DT advantage has been mitigated, 2) people can actually conquer a system in a reasonable amount of time, and 3) there is a sense of urgency - if you don't defend NOW your system will flip.



the after dt advance has been substantially reduced but it is still a 2-3 plexing hour advantage to whoever holds the DT-zone and the advantage needs to be completely removed.

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#214 - 2012-03-28 15:23:40 UTC
Sentinel Mantik wrote:
Misanth wrote:


If you ever tried to be an Outlaw, you know all of lowsec is connected in a bigger 'circle', something you use for roaming PvP. Locking out "Militia space" means that pirates (or anti-pirates that had their sec drop, not too uncommon) etc will be forced into smaller parts of space. I could go into more details, but let's just say, lowsec is already quite hard on them, no reason to make it even tougher and less appealing.

FW and Outlaws share space, it's that simple, and it's a passage to null from high. It should be for everyone.


I realy thought about that, but if i think about what in reality works... if one army invades a enemy teretory they try to lock out the enemy from what they conquer (Camp, District, City...) If there are some more or less hostile citizens they can do there business but not siting in the home of the army's. they mostly have their own.

I dont want to split lowsec in normal low and fw low but to give neutrals the posibility to enter a militian station is nothing i think is helpfull. maybe there could also be netural stations where you as a militiant cant enter or if you attack near that station as melitiant you get agressed by the station-guns?

In the Assembly Hall is a good thread about making the controlbunker as a militia only station for the occupancy holder. That for example could also be a good idea (even if it was not mine Blink )


Fair enough, I can respect that, but I don't think that non-warring lowsec dwellers are considered 'affected' by the war. Think about it this way: sentry guns fire on outlaws only when they are combat flagged, not for travelling, while - I don't claim to be an expert on whatever RP ruleset/lore/etc CCP has created, but I have read the books - it seems that NPC stations in low and null is open to everyone. The hostilities is regarded taking place in space. And warring factions have no reason to attack lowsec travellers, they can if they want but then the same security hits and sentry fire applies to them as to everyone..

TL;DR the 'war' is basicly like a highsec war. You have the 'rights' to shoot eachother without sentries interfering. The NPC corporations don't interact, and non-warring parties are separate entities who you can chose to attack or not.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#215 - 2012-03-28 16:15:59 UTC
Flyinghotpocket wrote:


the after dt advance has been substantially reduced but it is still a 2-3 plexing hour advantage to whoever holds the DT-zone and the advantage needs to be completely removed.
Agreed.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#216 - 2012-03-28 16:30:47 UTC
Ranshe wrote:

Well, that's obvious. Everyone wants to fight when they're online. Problems like this are the price of Eve being one of the few single-shard MMO games.

But I still see a little contradiction in your reply.

How does the rapid response and quick action work if Gallente attack a system in USTZ? If, as you say, Caldari have no to little presence in that timezone, and can't respond with a similar force at all? Isn't that a big advantage for the attackers?

Of course it's obvious! :D

With the exception of those wishing only for ship limited combat, desire to occupy a system drives the entire mechanic. Those that initiate the mechanic should have the advantage over those that react. Keeps them encouraged to do more - which leads to more pew. If people don't want to occupy a system, then there is no urgency on either side.

The side that is not dominant either needs to perform some guerilla warfare to slow the enemy down until their side dominates, or they will lose the system. Damar, Super Chair, and others did a great job of this last weekend and forced our guys to stay up until the wee hours of the morning to cap Intaki. They had fun picking off our blob (maybe they did, maybe they were pissed). We had fun trying to kill them.If they hadn't shown up, we would have taken all five systems and not just Agoze and (barely) Intaki.
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#217 - 2012-03-28 18:10:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
X Gallentius wrote:


The side that is not dominant either needs to perform some guerilla warfare to slow the enemy down until their side dominates, or they will lose the system. Damar, Super Chair, and others did a great job of this last weekend and forced our guys to stay up until the wee hours of the morning to cap Intaki. They had fun picking off our blob (maybe they did, maybe they were pissed). We had fun trying to kill them.If they hadn't shown up, we would have taken all five systems and not just Agoze and (barely) Intaki.



we had fun performing guerilla warfare. i got as much footage as i could of our squad trying to hold back the combined fleets of minmatar and gallente. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZPFiv388H0 first half is the fight to hold off the wt fleet form taking intaki and agoze, obvuiosly we failed to hold intaki and agoze.

even if you are outnumbered their is always something to do to fight the overwhelming forces, we made the call to only fight in destroyers, we knew that our particular pilots stand a better chance of doing damage in minors than the other plexs for instance

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#218 - 2012-03-28 18:35:01 UTC
Morons in this thread keep arguing "But it works in Null, so it should work for you!" or "People in Null do it, your argument is moot!"

Dude, we don't care that it works in Null. We aren't Nullsec. If we wanted to do stuff like Nullsec, we WOULD SIMPLY MOVE TO NULLSEC.

I really don't understand what is so difficult to comprehend about that concept.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Simyaldee
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#219 - 2012-03-28 18:59:51 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:
Things I will post on tomorrow.

1.People who comment on FW who are not in FW.

2.Damar.

3. Why FW isn't null sec and should never be null sec or any type of null sec 'lite' and why we want to keep it the way it is or similar to the way it is.

4. My thoughts on docking mechanics and consequences for plexing etc.

5. Hans, and support for Hans etc.

6. I still want to know who the **** fleetwarps main is.

And maybe some other things, I have spent 45 minutes reading through this entire thread, I have to wake up early tommorow and I have the flu. Will post my Ideas as soon as I can.



I have seen several people on the forums posting on issues such as Faction Warfare and such. Mostly these people are members of large null sec alliances or can be assumed so because of the way they post. While your opinions are appreciated most of you have no idea what your talking about so I suggest you focus on parts of the game that you know.

Damar for gods sake man leave your issues with the gals out of this discussion. You are an excellent PvPer and I respect you but your coming off as a bit of a nut. Your simultaneously saying that CCP doesn't care about FW enough to listen to what we are saying or give it a decent well thought out buff, but they specifically support the Gal militia, something that is beyond beneath their radar.

You've made it well known that you hate the gals because the accused you of pedophilia and such. Did all the gals do it? Can you even remember the people who specifically posted it? If so please make them known so that we can deal with these issues as a militia. If not please stop bringing it up. You are being prejudicial towards an entire group of hundreds of people for what a small amount of people did or do. I have had no hate mail nor anybody close to me has had hate mail or any sort of stuff that you claim has happened. This is a militia wide thing, its not a personal issue for you alone so stop making it out like that.


FW is not null sec, We don't want to be like null sec. We don't want massive blob fests or structure grinds to be our main type of action, and most of Null sec hate the structure grinds anyway. FW and also low sec IS a fight club. I can roam around solo in an Assault frig and expect to get a decent one on one fight with SOME kind of certainty. I can get a group of us out roaming and expect to either run across some pies or have WT's bring something out. You don't see that a lot in sov null sec, at least not as far as I know. FW and Low sec as a whole are separate from low sec and should always be so.

I do think restricting ALL docking access goes to far and let me tell you why. If it is enacted plexing and PvP won't stop, they'll just be harder. If say Caldari took back Nennamalia theres only one station in that system and a lot of gal corps and alliances have assets their. Sooo we take it back, whats easier? Fighting continuously over a system or just simply neutral hauling it out back to heyd or some other place. Maybe even all the way out to Gal High sec where its at least less difficult to be captured. Most people will probably choose the latter.

The Complete lock out of stations wouldn't HALT plexing efforts but it wouldn't increase them by to much either especially after proper battle lines could be drawn. The goals that most of us in FW want (or at least I think we want) is more fights, more pvp. Whats quicker reshipping one jump away, or ten? No it doesn't take long to reship in low sec, but the average time for fights of our size are 1-5 minutes at the most for what we fight in. It takes longer than that to reship usually. Longer, reship and travel times mean less fights anyway you slice it.

The Idea proposed by Hans represents the best of both worlds it provides incentive for plexing, while also making it relatively easy for people to fight.

Hans, you are our representative, and for good reason you listen and you make thoughtful replies even when some people are being unreasonable. If you think that something is the way to go, and the community has supported it take it to CCP and make it known. I think you know that already but just wanted you to know that the community will mostly support you, there will always be people who disagree.

Member, Fighter and FC for The Great Harmon Institute of Technology 
Zverofaust
Ascetic Virtues
#220 - 2012-03-28 19:24:07 UTC
Nobody's arguing that FW wants to be more like Nullsec except the people who somehow believe several of the currently popular lines of thought on this subject amount to Nullsecification. No, FW will never be like Nullsec because it can't be. You don't have bubbles, 5000-man alliances, supercap blobs and the mind-numbing process of Sov warfare in campaigns that last months and can completely turn upsidedown if an alliance forgets to pay the Sov bills on time.

I like the two current ideas concerning how systems are contested and taken, and what benefits they give Militia member who own the system.

The Incursion mechanic seems cool. Simplistically, do FW complexes as they are done now; instead of becoming vulnerable, a system goes into "Minmatar Incursion" mode (or whatever the enemy Militia is) and that sort of craziness.

As for rewards, the idea of a "Garrison" replacing the Bunker and acting like nullsec Outposts -- only allowing owning Militia members to dock, providing sentry gun and safety to owning Militia for formups and general security, giving them access to cheap/free services like repair, clones and marketing/jobs, and LP boosts for missions taken in that system or whatever -- is clearly the best, most legitimate idea that combines the aspect of risk vs reward (losing your **** in a station when the enemy takes it) with a reasonable amount of safeguarding against this (no instant sov changes, can still base in normal stations in system) while giving clear and tangible bonuses (a camp-resistant station to base in and get good prices on repairs/clones/market/jobs) to the owners/defenders.