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Titan changes - update

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Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#261 - 2012-03-28 10:59:27 UTC
Hey, I just got a brilliant idea !

Introduce fleet penalties ! More people in fleet, bigger penalty ! Goons dead. End of story.
Joe D'Trader
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#262 - 2012-03-28 11:09:36 UTC
Acwron wrote:
Hey, I just got a brilliant idea !

Introduce fleet penalties ! More people in fleet, bigger penalty ! Goons dead. End of story.



You are stupid and wrong. Eve is a great game because it has very limited hard upper limits. You have 100 friends, and the other guy has 10 who is blobbing? But you have 100 friends and the other guy has 500 who is blobbing?


What gameplay is added by some artificial more people in fleet = peanalty? There already is a place where "blobbing" is difficult, it is called wormhole space and apparently it prints isk. So go on, be bold pilot and move to a place that encourages the playstyle you seem to enjoy.


Also get out blobbers
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#263 - 2012-03-28 11:17:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ivar R'dhak
Killerhound wrote:
Clone Vat Bay is horribly broken or well absolutely worthless, due to following Problems:

- makes you immoblie (no warp, move, jump)
- has a duration of 3 mins and needs to be activated
- installation process is horribly complicated (needs pilot to invite "customer")

So that should be fixed then, no?
Though IMHO the "siege mode" should still be there in some form. Free constant respawns, basically player ships acting like bomber and fighter drones is a pretty powerful ability.

Quote:

- costs something
Actually it should. But nowhere near as much as, say 75 16 mill clones.
Maybe 10 mill to fully load it up with NPC only available biomass(little isk sink)?

Quote:
- Usage is a oneway process, because it works only to jump to it not from it, therefor the clones in there have no imps unless carried with the titan. Horrible work if 75 dudes need there specific imps (Warfare imps, Hardwirings, ....)

Actually it should be rather 10 dudes having 7 "free" respawns. Some fancy hardwiring shouldn´t be neccessary to fly some t1 fitted Bombers or Assault frigs or Dessis. And wave after wave of those should get quite annoying after a while?

Quote:

- Module needs to be active to jump to titan
- You pop out of the titan around it, you have to board your ship and put in your imps before you can start the engagement.

All this makes this module only useful for Interdictor pilots or similar roles but in a very specific case....
Yikes.
Thanks for clearing up how kaput that thing is, obviously this has to be fixed.
The logistics should work while the thing is simply online and during the "siege mode" the free respawning should work.
CCP to the rescue.

I have a feeling they pretty much forgot this thing exists. Sad
Calipso Star
Eye For An Eye
#264 - 2012-03-28 11:40:12 UTC
Sendo Jarix wrote:
Don't **** up this thread with your rubbish, it's the closest we have gotten to the Devs actually acknowledging what the real problem is.

What I'm Down has listed would be one of the single greatest improvements to the game in a long time. CCP made numerous references at fanfest about restructuring ships and modules to shake up the games stale fittings/fleet compositions, however this change would do a far greater job at this than any of the gimmick modules suggested. At the same time fixing the crux of the issue with not only Titans but several other ships and weapon systems.


You know the funny part ? In the previous thread all the goons smacked everyone that was against the titan nerf regardless of everything with Mittani saying "you did that to yourself". None of you ( goons or test ) came with other solutions you were pleased that titans went to hell and that is it. Apparently now you "find" solutions when it doesn't suite your requirements. Why didn't you want to talk to the dev then and saying hey dude this is a little harsh lets rethink for a moment? Bunch of hypocrits.
Tergerom Loregeron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#265 - 2012-03-28 11:56:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Tergerom Loregeron
Calipso Star wrote:
Sendo Jarix wrote:
Don't **** up this thread with your rubbish, it's the closest we have gotten to the Devs actually acknowledging what the real problem is.

What I'm Down has listed would be one of the single greatest improvements to the game in a long time. CCP made numerous references at fanfest about restructuring ships and modules to shake up the games stale fittings/fleet compositions, however this change would do a far greater job at this than any of the gimmick modules suggested. At the same time fixing the crux of the issue with not only Titans but several other ships and weapon systems.


You know the funny part ? In the previous thread all the goons smacked everyone that was against the titan nerf regardless of everything with Mittani saying "you did that to yourself". None of you ( goons or test ) came with other solutions you were pleased that titans went to hell and that is it. Apparently now you "find" solutions when it doesn't suite your requirements. Why didn't you want to talk to the dev then and saying hey dude this is a little harsh lets rethink for a moment? Bunch of hypocrits.


Yeah because that thread was filled with quality posts and brilliant ideas, right?. Such brilliant ideas as "**** U CCP AND **** GOONS GO BACK TO PERPLEX ONLINE." There were occasional posts which actually warranted discussion, but for the most part they were overshadowed by a bunch of people crying that their precious "IM SPECIAL" toys were getting nerfed.


No one thought it wasn't extreme, but that doesn't mean we didn't think it was needed also. As it stand, by removing the scan res change they are doing effectively nothing, and what needs to happen is a quick fix to keep Titans from doing what they do now until a more permanent solution is implemented. Some of the best suggestions might take effort, but that's what happens when they introduce changes which will effectively do nothing to fix Titans.
CynoNet Two
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#266 - 2012-03-28 12:00:28 UTC

Killerhound wrote:
Clone Vat Bay is horribly broken or well absolutely worthless, due to following Problems:

- makes you immoblie (no warp, move, jump)
- has a duration of 3 mins and needs to be activated
- installation process is horribly complicated (needs pilot to invite "customer")
- costs something
- Usage is a oneway process, because it works only to jump to it not from it, therefor the clones in there have no imps unless carried with the titan. Horrible work if 75 dudes need there specific imps (Warfare imps, Hardwirings, ....)
- Module needs to be active to jump to titan
- You pop out of the titan around it, you have to board your ship and put in your imps before you can start the engagement.

All this makes this module only useful for Interdictor pilots or similar roles but in a very specific case....


It's almost certainly outside the scope for a near-future patch, but revisting Clone vats is definitely on the list for giving titans a non-combat frontline role. Consider this:

a) Scrap the current clone-installation method for clone vats. Make it so that they no longer contain jump clones in their current form. Remove the 'max clone limit' too.
b) Prevent use of Clone Vat Bay inside a starbase shield.
c) Allow pilots to instantly clone-jump from a station to an active clone vat module on a ship in the same fleet as them, appearing in a pod next to the capital ship. This jump is not affected by jump clone timers or the player's max jump clone limit.
d) Change the Clone Vat skill to affect how many people can use the module per cycle, so it is worth skilling up. E.g. 10 people per cycle at level 1, up to 50 people per cycle at level 5.
e) Increase Titan SMA capacity by at least 100% so that they can hold substantial numbers of spare ships for people cloning into a fight.
Calipso Star
Eye For An Eye
#267 - 2012-03-28 12:13:11 UTC
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:
Calipso Star wrote:
Sendo Jarix wrote:
Don't **** up this thread with your rubbish, it's the closest we have gotten to the Devs actually acknowledging what the real problem is.

What I'm Down has listed would be one of the single greatest improvements to the game in a long time. CCP made numerous references at fanfest about restructuring ships and modules to shake up the games stale fittings/fleet compositions, however this change would do a far greater job at this than any of the gimmick modules suggested. At the same time fixing the crux of the issue with not only Titans but several other ships and weapon systems.


You know the funny part ? In the previous thread all the goons smacked everyone that was against the titan nerf regardless of everything with Mittani saying "you did that to yourself". None of you ( goons or test ) came with other solutions you were pleased that titans went to hell and that is it. Apparently now you "find" solutions when it doesn't suite your requirements. Why didn't you want to talk to the dev then and saying hey dude this is a little harsh lets rethink for a moment? Bunch of hypocrits.


Yeah because that thread was filled with quality posts and brilliant ideas, right?. Such brilliant ideas as "**** U CCP AND **** GOONS GO BACK TO PERPLEX ONLINE." There were occasional posts which actually warranted discussion, but for the most part they were overshadowed by a bunch of people crying that their precious "IM SPECIAL" toys were getting nerfed.


No one thought it wasn't extreme, but that doesn't mean we didn't think it was needed also. As it stand, by removing the scan res change they are doing effectively nothing, and what needs to happen is a quick fix to keep Titans from doing what they do now until a more permanent solution is implemented. Some of the best suggestions might take effort, but that's what happens when they introduce changes which will effectively do nothing to fix Titans.



Dear sir, your alliance and especially Andski were **** talking everyone. People have a right to express their concerns about the things that they don't like after all we are customers. No matter what you think that an idea is brilliant or not is an idea from a customer that is paying the subscription fee the same as you do. We have to admit that goons have a negative impact over the eve community.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#268 - 2012-03-28 12:16:34 UTC
Acwron wrote:
Hey, I just got a brilliant idea !

Introduce fleet penalties ! More people in fleet, bigger penalty ! Goons dead. End of story.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Uja1atEteE

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#269 - 2012-03-28 12:18:33 UTC
after reading dozens of pages, i still cannot see why you can't simply multiply the actual applied turret damage with something like max(1, sig radius / sqrt(gun resolution)).

I should buy an Ishtar.
El Scotch
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#270 - 2012-03-28 12:27:35 UTC
Calipso Star wrote:
We have to admit that goons have a negative impact over the eve community.


We can only hope so.
Yasuhiro Shoe
Perkone
Caldari State
#271 - 2012-03-28 12:32:52 UTC
I read some good proposals in this thread.

CCP Greyscale, I understand you have come to the conclusion that the scan res reduction is heavy-handed, and you might want to verify the effects of the tracking nerf -- effects that many are reasonably predicting will have no discernible impact -- before iterating further on turret titans.

I am asking for some assurance that this patch will not be a solitary afterthought before you forget about titans for another year, but that instead CCP will keep monitoring the effects of the changes and reduce or increase them in every forthcoming patch until titans are approximately in a place where you want them to be.

There is urgency. Titans have multiplied and will proliferate more.
Conventional fleet warfare is going to grow less and less playable at an ever increasing pace.
Tore Vest
#272 - 2012-03-28 12:33:57 UTC
El Scotch wrote:
Calipso Star wrote:
We have to admit that goons have a negative impact over the eve community.


We can only hope so.

Ye...I beleve they do......

No troll.
Tergerom Loregeron
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#273 - 2012-03-28 12:35:27 UTC
Calipso Star wrote:
Tergerom Loregeron wrote:
Calipso Star wrote:
Sendo Jarix wrote:
Don't **** up this thread with your rubbish, it's the closest we have gotten to the Devs actually acknowledging what the real problem is.

What I'm Down has listed would be one of the single greatest improvements to the game in a long time. CCP made numerous references at fanfest about restructuring ships and modules to shake up the games stale fittings/fleet compositions, however this change would do a far greater job at this than any of the gimmick modules suggested. At the same time fixing the crux of the issue with not only Titans but several other ships and weapon systems.

Bear
You know the funny part ? In the previous thread all the goons smacked everyone that was against the titan nerf regardless of everything with Mittani saying "you did that to yourself". None of you ( goons or test ) came with other solutions you were pleased that titans went to hell and that is it. Apparently now you "find" solutions when it doesn't suite your requirements. Why didn't you want to talk to the dev then and saying hey dude this is a little harsh lets rethink for a moment? Bunch of hypocrits.


Yeah because that thread was filled with quality posts and brilliant ideas, right?. Such brilliant ideas as "**** U CCP AND **** GOONS GO BACK TO PERPLEX ONLINE." There were occasional posts which actually warranted discussion, but for the most part they were overshadowed by a bunch of people crying that their precious "IM SPECIAL" toys were getting nerfed.


No one thought it wasn't extreme, but that doesn't mean we didn't think it was needed also. As it stand, by removing the scan res change they are doing effectively nothing, and what needs to happen is a quick fix to keep Titans from doing what they do now until a more permanent solution is implemented. Some of the best suggestions might take effort, but that's what happens when they introduce changes which will effectively do nothing to fix Titans.



Dear sir, your alliance and especially Andski were **** talking everyone. People have a right to express their concerns about the things that they don't like after all we are customers. No matter what you think that an idea is brilliant or not is an idea from a customer that is paying the subscription fee the same as you do. We have to admit that goons have a negative impact over the eve community.


They were **** talking people who were just complaining. No ideas period, just a bunch of bitching both ways. If you think that sort of complaining is constructive then I suggest you start up seminars in the US, you'll become very famous and very rich.

Also, I could go into a whole debate about why goons are just as positive as they are negative for the community, but I already know I'd be wasting my time.
ivar R'dhak
Deus est Mechanicus
#274 - 2012-03-28 12:35:45 UTC  |  Edited by: ivar R'dhak
CynoNet Two wrote:

Killerhound wrote:
Clone Vat Bay is horribly broken or well absolutely worthless, due to following Problems:

..
All this makes this module only useful for Interdictor pilots or similar roles but in a very specific case....


It's almost certainly outside the scope for a near-future patch, but revisting Clone vats is definitely on the list for giving titans a non-combat frontline role. Consider this:

a) Scrap the current clone-installation method for clone vats. Make it so that they no longer contain jump clones in their current form. Remove the 'max clone limit' too.
..
c) [b]Allow pilots to instantly clone-jump from a station to an active clone vat module on a ship in the same fleet as them, ..

d) Change the Clone Vat skill to affect how many people can use the module per cycle, so it is worth skilling up. E.g. 10 people per cycle at level 1, up to 50 people per cycle at level 5.
Ugh, why am I not surprised that you took the "force multiplier" idea(a relatively small number or players per Titan respawning often) and turned it into the standard goon mega blob. Ugh
Only with the added bonus of not having to bother flying to the actual battle. Thus avoiding all the grid load shenanigans and other various logistics.

Nope to the above specifics, and the general non-combat role. The clone vat should be the Titans actual main "weapon".
Night Epoch
Perkone
Caldari State
#275 - 2012-03-28 12:36:32 UTC
pmchem wrote:
Greyscale,

Please consider special-casing XL turrets and implementing a signature radius based solution. If you modify chancetohit (from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage ) by adding a sigrad based falloff function, but restrict the implementation just to XL turrets, it could be done very quickly. In time for the April escalation release, if not earlier. Plus, special-casing XL would mean subcap v subcap gameplay is not affected and nobody would really care if XL turrets were "special" with respect to sigrad effects. I think if you locked yourself, Masterplan, and Soundwave in a room this could be done in a matter of hours.



Quoting for peace.
bl4ckL0tus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#276 - 2012-03-28 12:43:20 UTC  |  Edited by: bl4ckL0tus
here is a thought for goonoobs: instead of crying how about each mittani voter come up with 13 mils a day this way u can get daily a titan char and titan ! kk thx and thought this was possible heard alot of botting in dekklein! true story!
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#277 - 2012-03-28 12:50:16 UTC
CCP Greyscale, don't mind the goons and their pets...There's no rush regarding the titans, really. I could wait a couple of more years. There's no need to cut the tracking with 50%, nor the targets. A frigate has more targets FFS. Increase tracking speed so I can hear the goon's cry for mercy.

Thanks in advance,

Acwron

P.S. Don't forget that Titan is the best and most expensive ship in game and that's the way should stay. Until you release Titan tech 2 and officer guns for it ! YEAH !
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#278 - 2012-03-28 12:53:29 UTC
bl4ckL0tus wrote:
here is a thought for goonoobs: instead of crying how about each mittani voter come up with 13 mils a day this way u can get daily a titan char and titan ! kk thx and thought this was possible heard alot of botting in dekklein! true story!


Shame on you !
They are not botting ! They are a little bit afk, that's all ! Who in the world could think goons are botting ??? Bleah...
Nagapito
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#279 - 2012-03-28 13:16:05 UTC
pmchem wrote:
Greyscale,

Please consider special-casing XL turrets and implementing a signature radius based solution. If you modify chancetohit (from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage ) by adding a sigrad based falloff function, but restrict the implementation just to XL turrets, it could be done very quickly. In time for the April escalation release, if not earlier. Plus, special-casing XL would mean subcap v subcap gameplay is not affected and nobody would really care if XL turrets were "special" with respect to sigrad effects. I think if you locked yourself, Masterplan, and Soundwave in a room this could be done in a matter of hours.


This
Acwron
Meet The Fockers
#280 - 2012-03-28 13:30:01 UTC
Nagapito wrote:
pmchem wrote:
Greyscale,

Please consider special-casing XL turrets and implementing a signature radius based solution. If you modify chancetohit (from http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Turret_damage ) by adding a sigrad based falloff function, but restrict the implementation just to XL turrets, it could be done very quickly. In time for the April escalation release, if not earlier. Plus, special-casing XL would mean subcap v subcap gameplay is not affected and nobody would really care if XL turrets were "special" with respect to sigrad effects. I think if you locked yourself, Masterplan, and Soundwave in a room this could be done in a matter of hours.


This


No, thanks...NEXT !