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New Launchers and Missile Effects
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Alara IonStorm
#21 - 2012-03-26 15:40:47 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Too bad after Drake nerf we won't see those launchers often.

Unless you PvP, then you will see new Drakes all the time.
Darthewok
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-03-26 15:47:16 UTC
New missiles look ssscchhmmmeexxxxyyyyyyy

CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0
Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
#23 - 2012-03-26 16:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Diomidis
Space is not vacum. Fins might be useless, but sorta aerodynamic shape is good to have. At least better than blunt shapes.

Plus, unlike most of the caldari Caldari designed ship which are horrible in that aspect, aerodynamic or "streamlined" shapes are usually close to the optimal exterior skin/volume/usable space analogies.

Caldari ships are not minimalistic. Period.
If Eve ships were designed by aerospace engineers or even industrial engineers would look completely different, with minimal "logic" applied.

Yet, missile launchers look fun - i want to believe that the new Drake will have a new model to accommodate em Lol

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left." -- Bertrand Russell

Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-03-27 05:25:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Alara IonStorm wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Too bad after Drake nerf we won't see those launchers often.

Unless you PvP, then you will see new Drakes all the time.

It seems that drake will become obsolete, both in PvP and PvE. They will replace bonuses with 5% kinetic damage and 10% missile flight time per level or something equal useless, pretty sure they will also screw CPU/PG and shield so Drake will become thin as cruiser. So it will be lesser version of Raven - slow, paper-thin but with long-range weak dps. The only real use for Drake will be for low-SP Caldari pilots who still don't know what Winmatar is.
Alara IonStorm
#25 - 2012-03-27 05:51:19 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:

It seems that drake will become obsolete, both in PvP and PvE. They will replace bonuses with 5% kinetic damage and 10% missile flight time per level or something equal useless,

The changes are as follows so far. 5% RoF, 10% Missile Velocity. That isn't useless, RoF gives the ship more DPS with a better selection of Dmg types. Velocity helps with HAM Range, it also allows Heavy Missiles to both hit there targets faster and hit them at longer ranges at the same time as the previous Drake could hit them at shorter ranges.

Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:

pretty sure they will also screw CPU/PG and shield so Drake will become thin as cruiser. So it will be lesser version of Raven - slow, paper-thin but with long-range weak dps. The only real use for Drake will be for low-SP Caldari pilots who still don't know what Winmatar is.

That is complete speculation. Drake currently gets as much HP as expected of a Tier 2 Battlecruiser. To think they would nerf that or the PG / CPU which is as expected of the class is alarmist thinking not supported by anything CCP has said. They gave their outline for what they expected it to be and under that the Drake still pulls just as heavy a tank as the other Tier 2 Battlecruisers with great range and good DPS.

The problems with the Raven come from Large Missile Mechanic alone which CCP plans to look at. The Caracals issue is being a lower Tier and poor fitting Two things CCP is fixing.

With the stats they have outlined the Drake will be the best Battlecruiser for level 3 Missions which is the level it should do and be more then effective at PvP good with Range, Tank and DPS.

Unless they make any direct stat nerfs to just the Drake which would put it below the other BC's without making the same style of nerfs to the other BC's which no one at CCP has said they plan to then the Drake will be fine.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-03-27 06:19:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinigr Shadowsong
Alara IonStorm wrote:

IWith the stats they have outlined the Drake will be the best Battlecruiser for level 3 Missions which is the level it should do and be more then effective at PvP good with Range, Tank and DPS

Best BC for L3 is still and will be Hurricane by far, I'm sure you know it. With nerfed tank Drake will be alfa'ed by 3-7 Tornado/Maels which will always hit (lolsignature).
Also, range will not be increased with this. Range on Drake is limited by Targeting range, not by missile flight time. It will only help with HAMs which much harder to fit effectively and it still will be Close-Range (closer than ACs/Pulses) on slow, paper ship with carrier signature that hardly find room for Ewar modules/Neutralisers and can't choose drones.
On a side not, Caldari have no HAC's/frigs/BS/Capitals that worth using.
Alara IonStorm
#27 - 2012-03-27 06:38:25 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:

Best BC for L3 is still and will be Hurricane by far, I'm sure you know it.
Not really, active Drakes with 4 BCU's and selectable damage will do better then fine.
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:

With nerfed tank Drake will be alfa'ed by 3-7 Tornado/Maels which will always hit (lolsignature).

LOL Drake HP without the bonus can brake 90k EHP so the answer is 9. Not that the 12 it took before will make much difference since Alpha Fleets fly with 30+ Members.
[quote=Sinigr Shadowsong]
Also, range will not be increased with this. Range on Drake is limited by Targeting range, not by missile flight time.
One Sebo or Sig Amp takes care of that.
[quote=Sinigr Shadowsong]
It will only help with HAMs which much harder to fit effectively and it still will be Close-Range (closer than ACs/Pulses) on slow, paper ship with carrier signature that hardly find room for Ewar modules/Neutralisers and can't choose drones.
On a side not, Caldari have no HAC's/frigs/BS/Capitals that worth using.

Not that hard to fit and will have 30km Range or 45 with LR Ammo. As for EWAR Arty Canes, Nado's, Baddons and Maels don't fit EWAR on their fleet fits ether.

Lol, the Rokh is being used as a fleet ship now and like all Rail Boats they are considering buffing it further with a DPS bonus. Caldari Frigs are good. Merlin, Hookbill, Hawk, Manti, Harpy. Besides that HAC's, Cruisers, Frigates and all low tier ships are being buffed as well in the same expansion that will balance the Drake with the other BC's.

Since 90% of the Caldari Line Up is being rebalanced saying that the Drake will now be effectively a normal BC is not a bad thing.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2012-03-27 06:41:42 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
On a side not, Caldari have no HAC's/frigs/BS/Capitals that worth using.


cerb is fine, hawk and harpy are fine, scorpion is fine unless you think ECM is wrong and bad, chimera is mostly fine.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-03-27 07:08:28 UTC
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Not really, active Drakes with 4 BCU's and selectable damage will do better then fine
...
LOL Drake HP without the bonus can brake 90k EHP so the answer is 9. Not that the 12 it took before will make much difference since Alpha Fleets fly with 30+ Members

It will still be subpar to Hurricane that will have better tank, damage, speed, easier to fit and also selectable damage types but without downsides of using missiles. And with pathetic Capacitor Drake will require dozens of millions of SP to sustation this active tank without low slots. It will be 30-40k EHP after massive nerf, surely shield HP will be nerfed too. It will be casually destroyed by unfocused Maels now. Same time with still weak damage and missile flight time
Alara IonStorm wrote:

One Sebo or Sig Amp takes care of that
...
Not that hard to fit and will have 30km Range or 45 with LR Ammo. As for EWAR Arty Canes, Nado's, Baddons and Maels don't fit EWAR on their fleet fits ether

Not enough mid slots to fit propulsion+disruptor+tank modules and leave some for sebo. You can't sacrifice tank, it will be weak already with 4 tank modules. 28km is still less than AC/Pulses. Long range ammo for HAMS is useless anyway (too low punch, too harsh penalty). Cane always have spare room for some neuts and you compare long range fits with short range
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Lol, the Rokh is being used as a fleet ship now and like all Rail Boats they are considering buffing it further with a DPS bonus
...
Caldari Frigs are good. Merlin, Hookbill, Hawk, Manti, Harpy. Besides that HAC's, Cruisers, Frigates and all low tier ships are being buffed as well in the same expansion that will balance the Drake with the other BC's

There are maybe 1 Rokh for 10-20 Maels/Abaddons, check killboards. It's realy that rare. i can't recall devs mentioned another rail buffs though. Caldari frigs are outclassed by other frigs. CCP Never mentioned they gonna buff Cerberus/Eagle and +1 slot and +10 PG on Caracal won't suddenly transform it into Rupture or Stabber. Other low-tier ships are gonna be buffed too and as usual Winmatar will become better in all aspects
Alara IonStorm wrote:

Since 90% of the Caldari Line Up is being rebalanced saying that the Drake will now be effectively a normal BC is not a bad thing

Caldari line up won't be rebalanced, just some useless ships will get slight lift ups still staying useless and only useful ships are gonna be nerfed to oblivion. To rebalance Caldari they would have to remake whole idea of missiles and how they work.
Sinigr Shadowsong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-03-27 07:13:36 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:

cerb is fine, hawk and harpy are fine, scorpion is fine unless you think ECM is wrong and bad, chimera is mostly fine.

Cerb will be fine when it will be used as often as Zealot/Vaga. Same goes with Chimera and Nyx/Archon. Scorpion is a niche and not for everyone, still it could have better tank.
FlameGlow
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2012-03-27 07:23:59 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
On a side not, Caldari have no HAC's/frigs/BS/Capitals that worth using.


chimera is mostly fine.

No, it's not, but mostly due to crippling CPU requirements of capital shield transfers and boosters. Really now, 4 times CPU requirements of armor analogs is outrageous
Liz Arji
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-03-27 13:02:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Liz Arji
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The changes are as follows so far. 5% RoF, 10% Missile Velocity.

Might I ask where you got that info from? Are there other changes for specific ships already announced?
Phobos Vortex
#33 - 2012-03-27 16:07:10 UTC
Ines Tegator wrote:
There's 2 things I don't like... the old fashioned smoke trails, and the size of the missiles. Regarding the smoke, really, would anyone in the EVE universe, at the scale of EVE combat, still be using chemical propellants? I doubt it. I want to see plasma and ion trails, pls.

Regarding the size, given the volume of fire in a given battle, I'd always assumed missiles were unusually small, low cost delivery hulks for high tech warheads. You've got to fit 1000's of them in a cargohold after all. On the whole though, I like the new effects. Those things just stick out as not fitting the EVE universe properly.


Exactly this.

The launcher models are awesome but the smoke trails and the smoke around the explosions look weird in a space scenario. Im not really good at physics but i think when there is no atmosphere there is nothing that could carry the smoke particles and hold them together to form a trail. Why invest extra time to create new trail effects when the new engine trails fit in perfectly? It would even make more sense that missiles use the same propulsion method like everything else instead of putting weird white lines of smoke in space.
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-03-27 16:22:15 UTC
Liz Arji wrote:
Alara IonStorm wrote:
The changes are as follows so far. 5% RoF, 10% Missile Velocity.

Might I ask where you got that info from? Are there other changes for specific ships already announced?


That change is on SISI afaik, or was posted as part of one of the SISI DB dumps by the same chap who got the AF buff and other information.
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#35 - 2012-03-27 18:56:28 UTC
The video made me moist with anticipation : ) at last Big smile


Tal

A very happy bittervet
OfBalance
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-03-27 19:02:29 UTC
FlameGlow wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
On a side not, Caldari have no HAC's/frigs/BS/Capitals that worth using.


chimera is mostly fine.

No, it's not, but mostly due to crippling CPU requirements of capital shield transfers and boosters. Really now, 4 times CPU requirements of armor analogs is outrageous


Here to confirm it's still a ***** to fit a chimera, although at least now I don't need a mountain of faction mods.
Adacia Calla
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2012-03-27 19:12:14 UTC
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:
Mfume Apocal wrote:

cerb is fine, hawk and harpy are fine, scorpion is fine unless you think ECM is wrong and bad, chimera is mostly fine.

Cerb will be fine when it will be used as often as Zealot/Vaga. Same goes with Chimera and Nyx/Archon. Scorpion is a niche and not for everyone, still it could have better tank.

Last I checked, all carriers suck compared to super-carriers.

Test signature....forum not applying settings :(
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
#38 - 2012-03-28 12:22:59 UTC
I don't care if they're pointy or how they're propelled. I just wanna see my ship studded with 6 bloody claws.

♪ They'll always be bloodclaws to me ♫
Isaiah Harms
State War Academy
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-04-01 18:09:22 UTC
Gentlemen, let's cut the bullcrap.

Yes. The Drake will ALWAYS be a tanky ship. But only for shields. Every other Tier 2 BC can effectively trade between armor/shield to increase tank or DPS. Drake cannot make this switch.

You're all excited about the Drake's DPS bonus. Well I guess you're fleet workers where DPS is all that matters because your Logistics will save the paper Drake.

For 0.0 alliances getting rid of the 5% resistance per level is a good thing. Which is why they're manipulating these changes. For wormholers or lowsecurity dwellers who have to make do will limited numbers - this further imbalances the game.

HOWEVER this comparison concerns me:

Amarr ships have a GREAT armor tank with adequate weapon systems.
Minmatar have good DPS and fast ships that can transverse against the low tracking of Amarr weaponry.
Gallente have good DPS at close range (and with the nullbuff that's not so close anymore). Good speed. Good agility, and a bonus to armor repair that is very highly effective!
Caldari have.......

Pathetic DPS. Delayed DPS. Their only racial counter is range. Which places the Caldari once again into blob warfare tactics where they must be supported by other players in other ships in order to be effective.

Dropping the 5% shield resistance bonus now makes this tactic necessary for PVE.

Not impressed CCP. Not at all.
Alara IonStorm
#40 - 2012-04-02 00:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Alara IonStorm
Isaiah Harms wrote:

HOWEVER this comparison concerns me:

Amarr ships have a GREAT armor tank with adequate weapon systems.
Minmatar have good DPS and fast ships that can transverse against the low tracking of Amarr weaponry.
Gallente have good DPS at close range (and with the nullbuff that's not so close anymore). Good speed. Good agility, and a bonus to armor repair that is very highly effective!
Caldari have.......

Pathetic DPS. Delayed DPS. Their only racial counter is range. Which places the Caldari once again into blob warfare tactics where they must be supported by other players in other ships in order to be effective.


Lets look at New Drake.

[Drake, New]
Damage Control II
Power Diagnostic System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Assault Missile
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I


Warrior II x5



This fit using the new stats gets 69,933 EHP does DPS out to 570 DPS 30km 465 out to 45km with selectable Damage. Oh and before you mention delay, it's delay at maximum range is six seconds.

So with about as much EHP and more Missile DPS then a Focus Pulse Lasers do on a Harbinger with MF and more tank then can be fit with Heavy Pulse, while being faster and more agile with the option of more range and a damage type selection beyond EM...

What is you and the 3 people who liked your posts problem with this ship. It looks, feels and rides like an average Brawler Battlecruiser built for small gang work.

Liz Arji wrote:

Might I ask where you got that info from? Are there other changes for specific ships already announced?

CSM Minutes.