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My Apology

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Kairos Antilles
Doomheim
#2261 - 2012-03-27 20:16:03 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Kairos Antilles wrote:
I have neither the time nor the inclination to read all (as of now) 116 pages of this thread, but in the many that I have read, not once have I seen anyone within GoonSwarm Federation break ranks on this topic, backing their CEO to the bitter end.

I find that to be either statistically amazing, or a testament to the collective hive mind they possess. Which is it?


Hi let me point you to my post in this very thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1016057#post1016057

Congratulations, I even mentioned you (you're the uneducated masses in the OP)


Thank you for pointing out the post. Truly.

Uneducated? Surely, as a relative newcomer to New Eden, and I'm still discovering all the political intricacies that are uniquely EVE - and I thoroughly enjoy that aspect of this glorious sandbox.

Please... indoctrinate me.
Derrick Munroe
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2262 - 2012-03-27 20:16:37 UTC
Seleene wrote:
OFFICIAL: The CSM are discussing recent events and will issue a public statement after a few days. #tweetfleet #EveOnline #csm7 #csm6


Hey, look guys, it's out of everybody's hands but the CSM's now. Stop the pointless arguing / forum warrioring.

What's it like, not owning any tech moons?
Kara Roideater
#2263 - 2012-03-27 20:16:52 UTC
DaiTengu wrote:



At that point it should have been done with after a simple apology, But no, politics came into play.

Now those who didn't vote for Mittani, never would have voted for him, and actively campaigned against him are fueling the fire.


Metagaming is bad and should not be permitted!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2264 - 2012-03-27 20:17:09 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Using the death (real or potential) of an actual human being as political capital in an internet spaceships game was disgusting when BoB did it in 2005 and its disgusting to see people doing it now.


If anything it's even worse this time since the political capital is not only alive, but still playing and gets to be subjected to whatever blowback comes of this, all because he sent a dumb email after getting ganked 6 months ago.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Tamir Lenk
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#2265 - 2012-03-27 20:20:52 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Andski wrote:

I'm just going to assume you're full of crap.

Literally any lawsuit that lands on CCP's doorstep regarding "wrongful death" and ends against their favor would be attributable to the failures of the legal system, not some non-event like this.


And what are YOUR legal qualifications to make a sweeping statement like that? Actually don't answer that, since the statement is just disgruntled commentary on the current legal trend against cyber-bullying. Well, whether you like it or not, it is a powerful legal trend at the moment, and it will be taken into consideration when CCP makes their decision. That's obvious from the statement they've already released.

Deal with it.

(Oh wait, since The Mittani said that first, do I need to quote it or include foot notes or something? I'd sure hate to get in trouble for infringement. Roll)


You're the space lawyer. You tell us.
Prince Kobol
#2266 - 2012-03-27 20:21:37 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Goons complaining about this being political, Goons complaining about hate and verbal abuse.. some top quality posting


Using the death (real or potential) of an actual human being as political capital in an internet spaceships game was disgusting when BoB did it in 2005 and its disgusting to see people doing it now.


Yes that is right, because the Goons are Saints and have never stepped over the line or told people they should die in numerous ways, forgot about that.



These are different things and if you can't see that your brain is broken. See a doctor.


I can see the difference, you can tell x amount of people to go and kill themselves and a lot of other vile crap and its fine.

You can joke about peoples personal disabilities, there religion, their race, their person circumstances, you can make racist remarks and that is all fine as well.

You can also humiliate people on forum, in public in front of thousand of people and that is okay as well.

However once somebody does the same thing to you it suddenly because a serious issue and is no longer funny and those who do it are very bad and evil people.

Yep.. gotcha Blink
L00B
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2267 - 2012-03-27 20:23:08 UTC
Bane Necran wrote:
I think my favorite thing about this thread is how goons went from being smug and dismissive to very mad.

They've manipulated crowds to do their bidding before, but now the beast has turned on them, and they're utterly powerless before it. How upsetting that must be.



You actually think we're angry? Have some cotton candy! Is this your first carnival?
Ayeson
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2268 - 2012-03-27 20:23:20 UTC
zufina wrote:
For trying to kill a person with cybermobbing cause the option is there a sensible person isn't acceptable!


Inb4 Mittens gets arrested for attempted murder

I ♥ the orthrus
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#2269 - 2012-03-27 20:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Ranger 1 wrote:

Princess, they only way that CCP could be even remotely be brought into a legal proceding of any kind in the future is if petitions were filed by the victim reporting harassment with the intent cause bodily harm and documentation being provided that CCP ignored the situation.

Of course that would be completely ignoring their legal disclaimer that communications between players in game fall outside of their ability to strictly control.

Since CCP doesn't ignore complaints about real life threats being thrown about in their game, it's unlikely that this will occur.


Um, no.

Where are you getting all this crap about petitions? My statement assumed a lawsuit for wrongful death filed in the US under a pretty standard cause of action against an as-of-yet unnamed bully. The defendant or plaintiff might drag CCP into the fray in a counter or cross-claim and point to a failure to act in THIS SITUATION as evidence that CCP is aware of cyber-bullying on their game and did nothing to discourage it. It's a perfectly logical and reasonable and common argument to make in such cases.

To put it simply, failing to substantively punish tbp The Mittani (Alex) opens CCP up to a reasonable claim if a similar case arises in the future that includes a viable plaintiff.

And no, none of this is said for the benefit of CCP's legal department. Trust me, they are already taking a look at the possible legal consequences of failing to take reasonable steps in this situation.

Edit: Also, disclaimers mean **** in cases of gross negligence, which is exactly what failure to act in previous similar cases would help prove. So yeah, it ignores the disclaimer completely, because it's irrelevant.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2270 - 2012-03-27 20:26:42 UTC
Amity Lane wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Alex needs to HTFU and step down from the CSM like he originally said he would. Not try to weasel out of what he said he would do.

Goons need to HTFU and accept that he needs to step down and stop acting like babies.

Well it would appear that the current suggestion of some Goons is that he "have his cake and eat it too" by stepping down from his CSM6 position, since technically CSM7 hasn't started yet. "That would actually be a pretty hilarious troll", they say. It's also apparently to "deal with nerds" like myself (they mentioned a post I had made bringing up the fact that he's offered to resign but has yet to do so).

There are far too many loopholes appearing for The Mittani to step through in order to keep his promise of resigning without actually resigning, and I would imagine he's aware of them. I predict that nothing is going to really change in regard to CSM7.



If he attempts any of that it will turn into a bigger storm then he is in now.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
GallowsCalibrator
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#2271 - 2012-03-27 20:26:53 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:

So where are the goons prepared to stand up and say that what Alexander Gianturco did on stage at Fanfest was unacceptable and he should step down as chair then exactly?


Hi, I'm Yeep, I'm about as OG GoonFleet as it gets. I think what happened on stage at Fanfest was unacceptable. I think he's right to feel terrible and I've known him long enough to accept that his apology is in good faith. However a spur of the moment resignation, no matter how popular it might be in the real world right now, does nothing but appease the uneducated masses.

Edit: For a bit of backstory I feel The Mittani crossed the line a number of times in the past when he was chief spymaster. I even opposed his promotion to the position on the grounds that his only qualification was nepotism. However he has the long term vision to continue to make Eve a better place for everyone (even whiny titan pilots) and the game will be objectively worse off if he resigns over this.


First of all quoting this so that it's up on the front page again - this guy knows what he's talking about. He is about as old-school as it gets. I was actually in Goonswarm in the early days that Yeep's talking about (different character though, that I no longer own - don't go chardating this.). Hell, my first kill was some roaming op in Gallente space with Yeep and a few others.

Now, I'm sure people have already decided to read the corp and alliance ticker and ignore everything I'm going to say based on that alone, but yeah, my thoughts on this are pretty similar here - stupid **** said, shouldn't have been, etc; but with a couple of crucial points I'd like to add; the thing that will make this into a PR nightmare is the echo chamber of, well, if I'm honest, incoherent rage going on here, which isn't going to help a thing.

Second? I know a bit about the whole 'wanting to die' thing; although I'd rather not discuss in fine detail on a public forum, if anyone chooses to PM me I'd certainly not have a problem talking about it if you so wish; and you know what? Best thing to do is LET IT GO. Not have it being swung around over and over, kept fresh. And although yeah, what was said was a step beyond the line, it doesn't seem, to me, to be 'BAN HIM BAN ALL GOONS HORRIBLE PEOPLE AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH' that some would dearly love it to be.

CCP and the CSM are working something out. People need to CHILL THE **** OUT and let the actual people involved sort out where to go next, without keeping the shitstorm running that is only going to bring more negative press and hurt the game further. Although I do wonder how many of the people trying to keep this inflamed will do that.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2272 - 2012-03-27 20:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Prince Kobol wrote:

I can see the difference, you can tell x amount of people to go and kill themselves and a lot of other vile crap and its fine.

You can joke about peoples personal disabilities, there religion, their race, their person circumstances, you can make racist remarks and that is all fine as well.

You can also humiliate people on forum, in public in front of thousand of people and that is okay as well.

However once somebody does the same thing to you it suddenly because a serious issue and is no longer funny and those who do it are very bad and evil people.

Yep.. gotcha Blink


You don't think political discourse between strangers should be held to different standards than jokes between peers? Because if so boy do I have some ... jokes for you.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2273 - 2012-03-27 20:30:35 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
RougeOperator wrote:
Alex needs to HTFU and step down from the CSM like he originally said he would. Not try to weasel out of what he said he would do.

Goons need to HTFU and accept that he needs to step down and stop acting like babies.

Well it would appear that the current suggestion of some Goons is that he "have his cake and eat it too" by stepping down from his CSM6 position, since technically CSM7 hasn't started yet. "That would actually be a pretty hilarious troll", they say. It's also apparently to "deal with nerds" like myself (they mentioned a post I had made bringing up the fact that he's offered to resign but has yet to do so).

There are far too many loopholes appearing for The Mittani to step through in order to keep his promise of resigning without actually resigning, and I would imagine he's aware of them. I predict that nothing is going to really change in regard to CSM7.



If he attempts any of that it will turn into a bigger storm then he is in now.


Hahaha yeah it would, a huge massive hilarious shitstorm. Glad we have you and some other e-honor dudes to feel outraged by the possibility of it though.
Eugene Spencer
Set Phasers To Malky
#2274 - 2012-03-27 20:31:05 UTC
I don't really care about in-game politics or bashing someone because they are the leader of a larger alliance.

But I do think he is an utter disgrace and unfit to represent the EVE community. People can use the excuse "he was drunk, people do silly things when they are drunk". Agreed, but you take responsibility when you're sober.

Resign.

I have a specific comb for my beard.
Prince Kobol
#2275 - 2012-03-27 20:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Yeep wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:

I can see the difference, you can tell x amount of people to go and kill themselves and a lot of other vile crap and its fine.

You can joke about peoples personal disabilities, there religion, their race, their person circumstances, you can make racist remarks and that is all fine as well.

You can also humiliate people on forum, in public in front of thousand of people and that is okay as well.

However once somebody does the same thing to you it suddenly because a serious issue and is no longer funny and those who do it are very bad and evil people.

Yep.. gotcha Blink


You don't think political discourse between strangers should be held to different standards than jokes between peers? Because if so boy do I have some dead baby jokes for you.


Between peers?

hmm.. if they were jokes between just goon members or CFC members then that is fine, however when you randomly attack people on the forums how do you know they do not take it personally?

Are you saying that you consider all players of Eve to be your peers?

I though all pubbies needed to die, isn't that what you guys like to say?

So let me get this straight, your saying that when you mock, ridicule, humiliate people using there race, religion, ethnic background, disabilities, personal circumstances, this is all just a joking with your peers?

Also as somebody who has been though the gut wrenching heart ache of losing a child, I would prefer you don't share any of your dead baby jokes with me.
de4deye
Terra Nova Innovations
Sedition.
#2276 - 2012-03-27 20:33:21 UTC
Mittani must resign for his horrendous actions - Resignation is the only option!
Maverick Gauss
ShadowTec Inc.
#2277 - 2012-03-27 20:33:30 UTC
I am fairly new to Eve, so new that this years fanfest was the first I watched. And the appearance on the Alliance panel was the first I saw of The Mittani. But I take your word that he is a great enrichment to this community.

About his appology for his missdoings I'm sceptic. True he was drunk during the panel. But I don't think he was drunk when his corpmember told him the story about this miner. He probably wasn't drunk when he made the power point presentation and I don't believe he was drunk when he intentionally made the decission to mock this player in front of tousands of people.

I see that some may say that his good deeds outweight this one mistake, but this is the price for his fame. Him stepping down as CSM Chairman would be the absolute least to do. Giving all his ISK to the victim, fair enough. Harassing The Mittani even after he takes this actions, too much and also a bit hippocratic.

Yours sincerly
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#2278 - 2012-03-27 20:36:32 UTC
GallowsCalibrator wrote:
People need to CHILL THE **** OUT and let the actual people involved sort out where to go next, without keeping the shitstorm running that is only going to bring more negative press and hurt the game further. Although I do wonder how many of the people trying to keep this inflamed will do that.


Yes, I hear that yelling and using profanity effectively silences people who are voicing opinions contrary to your own. Moar plz.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Doddy
Excidium.
#2279 - 2012-03-27 20:36:41 UTC
All this has happened before, it will happen again.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2280 - 2012-03-27 20:36:58 UTC
Eugene Spencer wrote:
I don't really care about in-game politics or bashing someone because they are the leader of a larger alliance.

But I do think he is an utter disgrace and unfit to represent the EVE community. People can use the excuse "he was drunk, people do silly things when they are drunk". Agreed, but you take responsibility when you're sober.

Resign.


You know a couple years ago the CSM was a total joke that nobody cared about. But now that Mittens has turned it into something awesome, the whole landscape has changed. Look at all the people who take this so serious, so e-honorish seriously. We have internet legal opinions flying around from people who most likely have no damn clue what they're talking about (Princess Bride ), we have other CSM members JUST ITCHING to take advantage of the downfall of the man who made them powerful (Darius III), and then a brothel runner who thinks that because Goons are defending their leader's position on the CSM that we all must be a religous cult, lacking individual thought processes (Jade Constantine)

Now that there is something worth fighting over, everone is here to cash their checks.