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My Apology

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Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#2141 - 2012-03-27 18:46:03 UTC
David Cedarbridge wrote:

Princess Bride wrote:
The issue is that what Alex did was reprehensible and unacceptable. If you need an explanation as to why, read Alex's apology where he explains it clearly. Do you agree with Alex on this point, or not?


Clearly every statement made in poor taste in or about EVE requires a media circus in the gaming blogs and a 100+ post threadnaught. Since the offense only has a victim in the form of a bunch of angry white knights with agendas and nothing else, I personally find little reason to care about what you find "unacceptable."


Sigh, even after their space-king as admitted he's in the wrong, they still continue......

Almost as if they know his apology was a Fake!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Deren Gard
Boondocks Industrial
Intaki-Business Logistics Union
#2142 - 2012-03-27 18:46:29 UTC
As someone who's hung out with Alex once or twice in the past - and as a W-space pilot with virtually nothing at stake in the spergtastic melodrama-saturated world of alliance politics - I think his response to his (colossal) mistake is genuine. When we play this game, whether we're explicit RPers or not, we're all playing roles. I'm a combat pilot who thrives on conflict and maybe a little in-game trolling from time to time, but that's because this is all just internet spaceships. Nothing is ever really at stake in Eve Online, so being an obnoxious jerk to strangers in New Eden amounts to nothing in real life. In real life, I'm just some guy with a job, a fiancee, and a desire to make the real world a better place.

I don't know Alex that well, but we got on fine the few times that we hung out. The fact that he let his in-game persona contaminate his actions in reality is seriously disappointing, and it was an awful thing to do, and it knocked him down several pegs in my eyes. But I at least know him well enough to know that he's not blowing smoke when he talks about resigning from the CSM and giving the miner in question all of his ISK. I have no doubt that he's actually horrified by his actions, and rightfully so. Of course, he's also bearing the consequences of having spent the past few years building up a cult of personality among the Goon bloc, and the knee-jerk responses jumping to his defense are making things worse, not better.

There's a part of me that personally resents this whole mess, because there's no game on earth like Eve Online, and I spend a lot of time and energy evangelizing this game. I want to see the sandbox MMO genre grow, and that will only happen as more people start to realize what's possible in games like Eve. But when this kind of thing happens, it just makes potential players more reluctant, and it paints Eve - and sandbox MMOs in general - as a hive of sociopathic maniacs whose sole purpose in life is to bring each other to suicidal ruin. It actually negatively impacts the genre, and I hate that this latest setback came from someone who's always spoken so highly of the player-driven sandbox.

I think resigning from the CSM is the best thing Alex can do to demonstrate that he actually feels sorry for screwing the pooch here. As for giving all his ISK to the Mac miner, I imagine that's something for the victim to decide.

TL;DR Alex was a jerk, but he's actually sorry; all this noise ain't helping.
CarbonBunny
Doomheim
#2143 - 2012-03-27 18:46:34 UTC
Step One stepping down from chair, i agree with step two should be your character being banned form game.

the reality here is that there are some people in this world who may use this game as there social platform as in they may have issues preventing them from being able to socialize in the normal context.
the fact you took the mick out of this guy / girl and also in public is a dissgrace for eve and eve players, yes we all like a little bit of banter every now and then, does not give anyone in power to riddicule them without there knowledge or permission.
i think it is dissgusting what you have done and would actually like to see ccp do something about this.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2144 - 2012-03-27 18:46:39 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Ai Shun wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
Regardless of what may or may not happen in the future, I think we can all safely assume that The Mittani will not be banned for one very simple reason:

10,000 * $15 * 12 = $1,800,000

Unless CCP can comfortably assume that the negative PR (if any) of this incident will cost them more than this, there's no way they'll ban him. To do so would be an idiotic move from a business standpoint.


It is a fairly big assumption that each and every single Goon will quit the game if the Mittani is banned.


So what's the math on any future lawsuits in which the plaintiff uses CCP -not- banning The Mittani for this as evidence that CCP was grossly negligent in letting behaviour like this go unpunished? Wrongful death awards can range pretty high, and a decent argument can be made for comparative negligence if they let it stand.


Except that the EULA and the TOS cover them from legal responsibility for an incident like this.

You are forgetting, rather conveniently I might add, that the actual victim in this case signed up to play eve, he was not strapped into a chair and forced to do anything against his will. He played a game where subterfuge, backstabbing, spying, stealing, killing and other forms of base human behavior are openly encourages by the developer, and their TOS and EULA prevent legal action from being taken against them in a case where an in-game event leads to RL self-inflicted harm.. The moment you log in, you are a part of that world and if you can't handle it, you should not play. The very idea that someone would commit suicide over grief done to them in-game even if encouraged outside the game implies that such a person needs professional help and should not have been playing a computer game with such a wide array of negative social interaction in the first place.

Deny the above all you want, I know you will cause you're an internet psuedo-legal hack and people like you are a dime a dozen.
Aldarica
Perkone
Caldari State
#2145 - 2012-03-27 18:47:23 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood

Don't... do that. Nothing has been blown out of proportion and there's no need to take Mittani's possible resignation from CSM so dramatically. What he did out there could end *really* dramatically though, but one guy stepping down from his position of lead community representative shouldn't be such a big deal for the rest of the CSM, nor you should even think about protecting or finding excuses for him (if that's what you intend to do). Finally, If he had the tiniest sense for responsibility and wasn't so obsessed with spotlights and virtual power, he would already step down and silence this shitstorm before it started.

So just help him to resign asap and save your own reputation as respected CSM member before it's too late.
Kai Tel
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2146 - 2012-03-27 18:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kai Tel
Ice Fist wrote:
Kai Tel wrote:

He used his position on a public stage provided by CCP to mock, bully, and attempted to instigate widespread harassment of another player in real life.


Ummm, he used his position as an Alliance CEO at the Alliance Panel. You know, people have different roles at different times?

It doesn't matter though, your opinion is a foregone conclusion. Your open hatred prevents any sort of logical reasoning.


Exactly. He made a real life threat against another player... What happens in those cases per company policy? I am glad that's not in question. The official policy in those cases is an entirely reasonable punishment for Mitty. I know you little wall boogers want to line up on the stall door and swarm to the king nose picker's defense but that's just not going to help you here. I don't hate you or him. But I am having fun (getting something for my sub fee) watching the raw amount of squirming you do trying to cover for his screw ups.
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2147 - 2012-03-27 18:50:22 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
David Cedarbridge wrote:
stuff


Do you believe that what Alex did was reprehensible and unacceptable, or not? Still waiting on your answer. Dodging the question much?


You don't read. That's nice. Since you can't bother reading things you seem to want to argue about I'll repeat myself. I, personally, do not find his statements out of line to the extent that he has been accused of. Is it proper to incite another person to actual suicide? No. I agree with The Mittani on that point. However, you take that and run with it to your own ends. You keep trying to refocus this away from your own motivations for blowing this out of proportion. Don't worry sweetcakes, everyone with basic reading skills already knows that you have an axe to grind. You've already said as much yourself. This isn't about the person he made the joke about, its that you found something to get offended about and because you were offended by it he has to be punished. I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't stop on a dime for things you want to get offended about.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2148 - 2012-03-27 18:50:25 UTC
Deren Gard wrote:
As someone who's hung out with Alex once or twice in the past - and as a W-space pilot with virtually nothing at stake in the spergtastic melodrama-saturated world of alliance politics - I think his response to his (colossal) mistake is genuine. When we play this game, whether we're explicit RPers or not, we're all playing roles. I'm a combat pilot who thrives on conflict and maybe a little in-game trolling from time to time, but that's because this is all just internet spaceships. Nothing is ever really at stake in Eve Online, so being an obnoxious jerk to strangers in New Eden amounts to nothing in real life. In real life, I'm just some guy with a job, a fiancee, and a desire to make the real world a better place.

I don't know Alex that well, but we got on fine the few times that we hung out. The fact that he let his in-game persona contaminate his actions in reality is seriously disappointing, and it was an awful thing to do, and it knocked him down several pegs in my eyes. But I at least know him well enough to know that he's not blowing smoke when he talks about resigning from the CSM and giving the miner in question all of his ISK. I have no doubt that he's actually horrified by his actions, and rightfully so. Of course, he's also bearing the consequences of having spent the past few years building up a cult of personality among the Goon bloc, and the knee-jerk responses jumping to his defense are making things worse, not better.

There's a part of me that personally resents this whole mess, because there's no game on earth like Eve Online, and I spend a lot of time and energy evangelizing this game. I want to see the sandbox MMO genre grow, and that will only happen as more people start to realize what's possible in games like Eve. But when this kind of thing happens, it just makes potential players more reluctant, and it paints Eve - and sandbox MMOs in general - as a hive of sociopathic maniacs whose sole purpose in life is to bring each other to suicidal ruin. It actually negatively impacts the genre, and I hate that this latest setback came from someone who's always spoken so highly of the player-driven sandbox.

I think resigning from the CSM is the best thing Alex can do to demonstrate that he actually feels sorry for screwing the pooch here. As for giving all his ISK to the Mac miner, I imagine that's something for the victim to decide.

TL;DR Alex was a jerk, but he's actually sorry; all this noise ain't helping.



Not all of us can confirm his personality or have a chance to hang out with him. Though your anecdotal tripe is cute. What we can see is if he is no longer on the CSM representing us. I use the term representing loosely.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
Kara Roideater
#2149 - 2012-03-27 18:51:05 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Kara Roideater wrote:
Seleene wrote:
OFFICIAL: The CSM are discussing recent events and will issue a public statement after a few days.


The body currently headed by The Mittani is discussing recent events involving the behaviour of The Mittani? Cool.


No you're right, lets have another election.

Kara Roideater wrote:

You think that a given victim should be the arbiter of how a community feels about these actions? Because if that guy feels ok the same actions could never, ever be repeated towards someone else? Because these actions have absolutely no implications for anyone but that one individual? Sound reasoning, sir!


Conversely, if theres no victim this time whats to say there'll be no victim next time. Have some internal consistency in your arguments please.


I don't think 'conversely' is the word you're after. The precise point is we don't know what will happen, which means such actions are a gamble with someone's well-being. I don't think 'internal consistency' is really the phrase you need either since you haven't pointed out any inconsistency but do please continue to throw arbitrary words and phrases into sentences. You know, monkeys and typewriters and all that ... you might put together something sensible somewhere down the line by accident.
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2150 - 2012-03-27 18:51:56 UTC
Aldarica wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood

Don't... do that. Nothing has been blown out of proportion and there's no need to take Mittani's possible resignation from CSM so dramatically. What he did out there could end *really* dramatically though, but one guy stepping down from his position of lead community representative shouldn't be such a big deal for the rest of the CSM, nor you should even think about protecting or finding excuses for him (if that's what you intend to do). Finally, If he had the tiniest sense for responsibility and wasn't so obsessed with spotlights and virtual power, he would already step down and silence this shitstorm before it started.

So just help him to resign asap and save your own reputation as respected CSM member before it's too late.

DON'T QUESTION ME AND DO WHAT I WANT YOU TO QUICKLY~
M1k3y Koontz
House of Musashi
Stay Feral
#2151 - 2012-03-27 18:53:10 UTC
Wow... what a politician.

DelBoy Trades wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
@TheMittani
Just landed. Step one, apologize profusely. Step two, resign. Step three, send all my isk to the victim. Entirely my fault and unacceptable.

Still going through with it?


Sure hope so, action are greater than words.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2152 - 2012-03-27 18:53:24 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
Andski wrote:


also f y i there is no goddamn possibility of a wrongful death lawsuit

you're absolutely retarded goddamn


Actually, there is.

If one of Eve's players commits suicide in the future, and it appears to be about cyber-bullying on Eve, you can be SURE that the plaintiff's counsel will bring up facts about how CCP has handled cases of cyber-bullying in the past. That's a given.

Also, reported for filter bypass.


Someone doesn't know how the legal system works.
Florio
Miniature Giant Space Hamsters
#2153 - 2012-03-27 18:54:02 UTC
That The Mittani has been a plot-mover in the player-guided narrative of EVE is admirable and deserves recognition and praise and thanks. I'll also trust that his apology is sincere. But fanfest events showed that Alex Gianturco does not have the qualities that CCP must demand for an out-of-game CSM position: his behaviour was unacceptable and his ingame achievements (or number of fans) should not excuse him. We might feel that, hey, it was just a little mistake which we all do when we're drunk down the pub; but it wasn't a little mistake and it wasn't down the pub.
Citamarret
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2154 - 2012-03-27 18:55:02 UTC
Dear "Mittens" (Mind if I call you that, Alex?),

The heartfelt apology is much appreciated, but I believe I speak for all of us in saying that it just is not enough. The People of this Eve Online Internet Video Game demand more. Therefore, I propose Alex "The Mittani" Gianturco be required to mine ice in a Mackinaw until he has fully reimbursed "The Wis". After which, "The Wis" will destroy the Mackinaw and pod Mittens in his ship of choice. Some may say this punishment is cruel and unusual, but I feel these are special circumstances requiring special action.

We await your reply.

Sincerely,
The Eve Online Online Video Game Playerbase
Anghus McKay
Doomheim
#2155 - 2012-03-27 18:57:11 UTC
Well, he apologized, sincerely.

The subject is still fine and actually not too impressed with it.

I'd say all is well, move along.

No point in rehashing this. People make mistakes and then they apologize. End of story.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2156 - 2012-03-27 18:59:11 UTC  |  Edited by: RougeOperator
David Cedarbridge wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:
David Cedarbridge wrote:
stuff


Do you believe that what Alex did was reprehensible and unacceptable, or not? Still waiting on your answer. Dodging the question much?


You don't read. That's nice. Since you can't bother reading things you seem to want to argue about I'll repeat myself. I, personally, do not find his statements out of line to the extent that he has been accused of. Is it proper to incite another person to actual suicide? No. I agree with The Mittani on that point. However, you take that and run with it to your own ends. You keep trying to refocus this away from your own motivations for blowing this out of proportion. Don't worry sweetcakes, everyone with basic reading skills already knows that you have an axe to grind. You've already said as much yourself. This isn't about the person he made the joke about, its that you found something to get offended about and because you were offended by it he has to be punished. I hate to break it to you, but the world doesn't stop on a dime for things you want to get offended about.



He did something worse he painted a giant target on another players back in and IRL venue.

Unless you can 100% account for the actions for every person that might have taken up the charge to drive a person to death knowing it was just a joke. You cannot in good conscious stand behind what the Alex did.

He himself might know there is a limit, but what about the 1000s that might have taken up his charge?

He put another persons life on the line, he put another persons life in jeopardy. Its not a game anymore, its not a joke.

This is why what he did is beyond messed up and evil and sets a terrible standard.

He needs to step down from the CSM.

You goons need to step back from this ASAP. You are only making it a 1000 times worse then it had to be.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
L00B
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2157 - 2012-03-27 18:59:26 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:

If one of Eve's players commits suicide in the future, and it appears to be about cyber-bullying on Eve, you can be SURE that the plaintiff's counsel will bring up facts about how CCP has handled cases of cyber-bullying in the past. That's a given.

Please, share with us your qualifications to make such statements regarding specifically the following

a) how much time you've spent on these forums
vs
b) how much time you have spent being educated by a competent authority regarding the actual profession of law


The only given is that you're a ******* windbag opportunist.
Magnus Orin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#2158 - 2012-03-27 18:59:54 UTC
Florio wrote:
But fanfest events showed that Alex Gianturco does not have the qualities that CCP must demand for an out-of-game CSM position: his behaviour was unacceptable and his ingame achievements (or number of fans) should not excuse him.


What the fuck does this have to do with anything? He would have been on that stage had he been on the CSM 6 or not. He was there representing Goonswarm Federation, an alliance in the spaceship game Eve Online.

And since when does CCP demand that CSMs have certain qualities aside from being over 18 and willing to give out their real name?
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2159 - 2012-03-27 19:01:02 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Florio wrote:
But fanfest events showed that Alex Gianturco does not have the qualities that CCP must demand for an out-of-game CSM position: his behaviour was unacceptable and his ingame achievements (or number of fans) should not excuse him.


What the fuck does this have to do with anything? He would have been on that stage had he been on the CSM 6 or not. He was there representing Goonswarm Federation, an alliance in the spaceship game Eve Online.

And since when does CCP demand that CSMs have certain qualities aside from being over 18 and willing to give out their real name?




You should read the rules of running for CSM mate.

Thanks for admitting he dosent represent the players though.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2160 - 2012-03-27 19:02:03 UTC
L00B wrote:
Princess Bride wrote:

If one of Eve's players commits suicide in the future, and it appears to be about cyber-bullying on Eve, you can be SURE that the plaintiff's counsel will bring up facts about how CCP has handled cases of cyber-bullying in the past. That's a given.

Please, share with us your qualifications to make such statements regarding specifically the following

a) how much time you've spent on these forums
vs
b) how much time you have spent being educated by a competent authority regarding the actual profession of law


The only given is that you're a ******* windbag opportunist.


http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/rutgers_student_kills_himself.html

Just saying. Though not a perfect fit the school itself is in litigation for the students death as well.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **