These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

My Apology

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2081 - 2012-03-27 18:00:16 UTC
Princess Bride wrote:
David Cedarbridge wrote:

This doesn't change anything. He still owes you nothing. If this thread were never made, that fact would not change. You're putting the so-called "victim" on a stand and claiming to champion the wrongs perpetrated against them when they, in fact, simply don't give a ****. You keep skipping over that part, but you've been pretty good at that so far.


The answer to that ridiculous argument has been posted many times by many people. Do I really need to go over it one more?

Quote:
Just be honest about it. You have an axe to grind with Mittens and then Goons by extension, so now you need to latch onto anything you can find to drag a real person through the ground as much as you possibly can in an effort to feel avenged for your space pixels or ehonor or whatever the hell it is that motivates your ire against people on the Internet. Nevermind that it is this exact witchhunt that is dragging EVE more and more into the negative limelight in the press.


The only thing I did is predict this would happen in his own campaign thread weeks ago.

Princess Bride wrote:
Regardless of how effective you say you were as a CSM last year, I feel its only a matter of time before you fall back on who you are as a person and politician. When this happens I think it’s safe to say that you’ll have no problem with screwing everyone over if you can… Eve, CCP, the players, and those who voted for you. I mean that’s what mud-slinging sadists do, right? I’m sure it’ll be lol-tastic too.


I imagined he would be revealing his true nature intentionally instead of while being a drunken buffoon. Either way, his true nature has been revealed. I didn't do this to him. This was only a matter of when, where and how he would fail to cover up who he really is.


You're not very good at dodging questions. I'll take your inability to respond to the point as your concession that you have no response. Face it, you and your alts have your hands stuck in the cookie jar and there's no getting out of it. You are the one's making mountains of molehills for your own agendas and you know it. Also, quoting yourself was a pretty stupid move as it makes your motivations very clear as to why you're so attached to the issue of getting more and more punishments heaped on an issue you are in no way directly connected to. I'd suggest you stop trying to dig out of the hole you're in.
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#2082 - 2012-03-27 18:00:55 UTC
L00B wrote:
As I've said elsewhere in this thread, a lot of you detractors seem to think this is the sort of game that isn't about being someone other than yourself (smirk #1),


Isn't that exactly what your leader claims in the apology post at the beginning for this thread? This whole issue arose because Alexander Gianturco slipped into the Mittani character while drunk at fanfest and abused the priviledge and media coverage he was given.

L00B wrote:
that honesty and good will are somehow things that are valued in Eve (smirk #2),[quote=L00B]

I don't believe anyone is expecting that INGAME ... OUT OF GAME on the other hand, yes, plenty of players do expect that.

[quote=L00B]... and that CCP has somehow portrayed itself as a company that will give all your stuff back via petition if some bad man took it from you (smirk #3).


Not sure where you are getting that from.

The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom
Princess Bride
SharkNado
#2083 - 2012-03-27 18:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Princess Bride
Seleene wrote:
OFFICIAL: The CSM are discussing recent events and will issue a public statement after a few days.


For any CSM member with a spine the only question should be who is leaving the CSM. You (as in all other members), or Alex.

http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/
Prince Kobol
#2084 - 2012-03-27 18:05:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
L00B wrote:
Jade Constantine wrote:


So where are the goons prepared to stand up and say that what Alexander Gianturco did on stage at Fanfest was unacceptable and he should step down as chair then exactly?

Because the strong impression I'm getting (as I'm sure the rest of the gaming community looking on is getting) is that the goons are quite unrepentant about all this and feel that Alexander shouldn't even have apologised let alone considered resigning over this.


As I've said elsewhere in this thread, a lot of you detractors seem to think this is the sort of game that isn't about being someone other than yourself (smirk #1), that honesty and good will are somehow things that are valued in Eve (smirk #2), and that CCP has somehow portrayed itself as a company that will give all your stuff back via petition if some bad man took it from you (smirk #3). Couple those things with this internet rage machine you seem to be caught in being WAY more mad about this event than the actual person aggrieved, is just pathetic, transparent, and an obvious ploy for nothing but attention cloaked as politics.

So the long and short of it is that it doesn't matter what the impression you're getting is, because you aren't objective about this at all. You hated goons long before you walked into this thread, and you'd also likely bend over backwards to get ten thousand people to click your little ego button regardless of the cost.

Those two things together is what makes your statements entirely irrelevant. You aren't offended, you aren't even pretending that you are. What you ARE pretending is that you somehow speak for those less eloquent than yourself. The problem is that you aren't eloquent at all.


For me and others this has nothing to do the Game Eve Online. It is to do with a person who stood up in front of hundreds of people in an auditorium, thousand more watching via a live streamed broadcast, CCP Employees, at a official CCP Event who openly mocked, humiliated and joked about somebody who was potentially suicidal.

The person in question is also the Chairman of the CSM which makes thing worse.

If it had been somebody like Michael Bolton then very few people would of cared as he carries no weight and is completely unimportant.

To add further fuel to the fire he then made a number of comments which dismissed the entire episode and then when the event went viral issued an apology.

You also have the suspect message he sent whilst on the plane effectively dismissing what happened and to follow Vile Rats lead.

You are also asking the players of Eve to take him at his word that his apology is sincere when he has made a career in game of being a lying, scamming, pubbie hating bastard. That is asking a lot.

Now you can argue that the person was not suicidal and if it had stayed within the community then fair enough. Unfortunately, and I don't agree at all with the person who then leaked the event to Eurogamer, it didn't and has become a huge issue for CCP.

One more thing, I have read a lot of post complaining that people are attacking The Mittani out of some political agenda, and you are right, I suspect there are many people who are doing this, but isn't this what the goons have been doing for years?

You can't have it both ways.
L00B
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2085 - 2012-03-27 18:06:31 UTC
Because you're implying that a company known for saying "Harden the **** up" that was present during this presentation, didn't say or do a thing, hasn't said or done a thing days later is something that it's not. Meanwhile, about 10 haters are jumping on the dog pile, with the things they believed before this thread existed, like it's going to change the very DNA of CCP as a whole.

It's not going to happen, regardless of how many stars you wish upon. They might deglamorize the alcohol thing (which I think most of us would regard as a smart move), but that's the only change that CCP is going to make here. Sure, they might publish some *standards and practices* document, but in terms of changing anything real?

NOPE.AVI
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#2086 - 2012-03-27 18:06:40 UTC
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2087 - 2012-03-27 18:06:42 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:

Why are you calling people uneducated exactly? And why do you think its wrong that eve players might feel its inappropriate for a drunken lout suffering from "blackouts" to be an inappropriate leader of the csm? I don't really understand why exactly you feel its an attribute of "education" to accept this kind of abuse to the reputation of a game you play without any form of consequence whatsoever.

And understand "yeep" I'm not somebody calling for Alexander to be ceremonially permabanned or even kicked off the CSM. I do recognize that he got 10,000 votes and players want him there. But I do think he is no longer an appropriate figurehead and cannot ever be placed in front of the press again given the stink this affair has attached to his name.


The uneducated masses, the people unwilling to educate themselves on an issue before expressing an opinion on it. The people who ignore or discount evidence that contradicts their already formed opinion. And thats excluding the people who feign outrage to further their political agenda.

And, although I've never been, a "drunken lout" sounds like they'd fit right in with the CCP dudes at fanfest. Sure that part of the company might need to change, but thats not really Alex's fault.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2088 - 2012-03-27 18:07:31 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Jade Constantine wrote:
L00B wrote:

So since we're in a world of black and white and no grey, sure, I totally agree with you. I mean, it's not like we ever have any internal discord, and it's not like there is a mass herd of people with nothing original to say, no way to say it, who are willing to paint us all with the same brush.


So where are the goons prepared to stand up and say that what Alexander Gianturco did on stage at Fanfest was unacceptable and he should step down as chair then exactly?

Because the strong impression I'm getting (as I'm sure the rest of the gaming community looking on is getting) is that the goons are quite unrepentant about all this and feel that Alexander shouldn't even have apologised let alone considered resigning over this.

Quote:
In short, I don't give a **** what you're "Just saying". Maybe you should actually say something of your own, rather than repeating things like a parrot.


And thats obviously the way the goon collective looks to the outside. I mean the irony is that when responding to many goons as I've done in this thread for example - I might as well just be talking to one person for all the differentiation of opinion and perspective I've experienced in return. Its a bit spooky in some ways but it is like talking to a religious cult.


Your inaccruate assessment of goon culture is rather amusing. See, internally we have a lot of disagreements and everyone, even the one day old newbie can give his opinion (as long as the post is good). But on this forum we have something we can unite behind.

I mean, seriously Jade, everyone has spies in our alliance. When are you going to get yours in. Then at least your lackluster "Religous Cult" theories can be thrown out the window for better informed opinions. But, informed opinions aren't as good of a substitute for deliberately moronic comments written with good grammar and vocabulary so as to give off the impression of knowledge. We all really know there isn't much going on up there, so quit faking it.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#2089 - 2012-03-27 18:08:28 UTC
L00B wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:


Same could be said for all the goons posting.. just saying is all



So since we're in a world of black and white and no grey, sure, I totally agree with you. I mean, it's not like we ever have any internal discord, and it's not like there is a mass herd of people with nothing original to say, no way to say it, who are willing to paint us all with the same brush.

Keep painting... your statements make it clear you're no different from that herd. Incapable of independent thought or true critical thinking.

In short, I don't give a **** what you're "Just saying". Maybe you should actually say something of your own, rather than repeating things like a parrot.


So you've been non-stop spinning and lying and changing your position while threatening people and mocking them and then someone suggest your new super moral stance is a stupid lie?

You know why they suggested it is a stupid lie? Because it is a stupid lie.
Prince Kobol
#2090 - 2012-03-27 18:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


That would depend, did they do it in front of thousand of people, hundreds who were present and then thousand more in front of a live tv feed at an official CCP Event.

Did it then get the attention of numerous gaming internet sites (hopefully it goes no further) ?

Also didn't HB get banned for saying that a CCP Dev should die in a fire didn't he?
Doddy
Excidium.
#2091 - 2012-03-27 18:11:00 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:


Doddy wrote:
As to the matter at hand far more damage has been done by people like you playing the matter to your own ends than the mittanis screw up. I am sure [redacted] just loves being the poster boy of jade online. I am sure being used to put another nail in the coffin of this game will help him get over his issues. Your post is all about Jade, anyone can see that, and screw anyone else.


I will tell you plainly I think the behaviour of Alexander Gianturco in his role as Chair of CSM6 is far more important by way of example and media impact than the situation of the mining barge guy (whom we're assured is quite okay). This turned out okay from a player health and rl angle so good. But the matter remains that the current chair of the CSM saw fit to get steaming drunk and invite people to troll some guy to death in the view of the cameras and gaming media and that is not okay.

Doddy wrote:
Who are you to pass comments on Mittanis state of mind or what his wife should do? Accusing him of being delusional et all.


Well his wife said as much on SA. Talking of his episodes of "blind drunkenness" and fights where he couldn't remember what he'd done or said to anyone. One might say if this kind of stuff shouldn't be discussed on an internet forum why did she post it on an internet forum in the first place? Isn't it a bit ironic to hear a goon complaining about having one's personal laundrey aired out to dry in a scandal that arose from (well) hanging somebody else's emotional laundrey out to dry.

See, I wouldn't really be as interested in all this were you and a thousand other goons trying your level best to pass this stuff off as acceptable behaviour for a player of eve online in the environment of fanfest. Thats what rubs me up the wrong way really because its excusing this grevious breach of trust on Alexander's behalf and going some way to invalidate his apology. The goons are making it look like a false statement because they are effectively trying to justify this kind of thing in the fanfest environment.

Quote:
You are just as bad as him but don't have the excuse of being drunk and making a flippant comment. You calculate. You use people. You probably drafted that post before posting it.


On that point we'll have to agree to disagree. I as a player of eve online have expressed my view that Alexander Gianturco is no longer an appropriate chair of the player council in Eve online. Its my right and priviledge as a paying customer of Eve to express this opinion as its your right to disagree. You may accuse me of whatever you please, it doesn't change what happened.



I am not a goon, never have been, never will be. I don't condone what mittani did, i even think he should resign as CSM chairman. But then you are very good at making assumptions. My posting in this thread has simply been to point out the misrepresentation of jabber logs and call out your assertion that the like system has any meaning.

Nowhere in your essay were you even remotely expressing a simple opinion. If you had done so i would have no issue whatsoever, as you can see i broadly agree. It is the enormous amount of spin, self promotion and grandstanding that sets peoples teeth on edge, along with the ridiculous premise that because you have likes you have the right to speak for others. you could simply have posted;

Quote:
I believe that what the Mittani did was wrong and in my opinion he can no longer chair the CSM. Hope he gets a handle on his drinking. My thoughts are with those effected by his actions


I might even have given you a cherished like for that. But thats no use to you is it Jade. No angle.
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#2092 - 2012-03-27 18:11:45 UTC
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


Look at this Jade, do you see this? This is a good post from a sitting CSM member whose alliance is not friendly with ours, but can make a decision without letting previous history and poor culture assessments as well as a distinct inability to separate Mittens the Goon from Alex the person get in the way of said decision.
L00B
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2093 - 2012-03-27 18:12:27 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:


So you've been non-stop spinning and lying and changing your position while threatening people and mocking them and then someone suggest your new super moral stance is a stupid lie?



I think you've watched a few too many of our propaganda videos, and now actually believe that drivel. We're not some collective, we actually are several thousand different people.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2094 - 2012-03-27 18:13:13 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


That would depend, did they do it in front of thousand of people, hundreds who were present and then thousand more in front of a live tv feed at an official CCP Event.

Did it then get the attention of numerous gaming internet sites (hopefully it goes no further) ?

Also didn't HB get banned for saying that a CCP Dev should die in a fire didn't he?


HB???
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#2095 - 2012-03-27 18:14:53 UTC
Interesting to see how the little bees and pets have transitioned from the '**** you pubbie' posts to the 'stop picking on our sincere leader' QQ ****.

Mr Epeen Cool
David Cedarbridge
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2096 - 2012-03-27 18:15:14 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


That would depend, did they do it in front of thousand of people, hundreds who were present and then thousand more in front of a live tv feed at an official CCP Event.

Did it then get the attention of numerous gaming internet sites (hopefully it goes no further) ?

Also didn't HB get banned for saying that a CCP Dev should die in a fire didn't he?


HB???

I'm confused too since the B an E keys aren't even near each other.
Berserkeren
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#2097 - 2012-03-27 18:15:22 UTC
Apologies not accepted. And yes i do really mean that, what a childish behavior. I dont think you should resign as chairman, But i do honestly think that you should be banned allover by CCP!
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#2098 - 2012-03-27 18:15:30 UTC
Ice Fist wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


Look at this Jade, do you see this? This is a good post from a sitting CSM member whose alliance is not friendly with ours, but can make a decision without letting previous history and poor culture assessments as well as a distinct inability to separate Mittens the Goon from Alex the person get in the way of said decision.



Um, the person who sujjested that Soundwave would Die in a fire DID get banned.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Inovy Dacella
Empire Assault Corp
Dead Terrorists
#2099 - 2012-03-27 18:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Inovy Dacella
The bottom line is players have been banned for lot smaller offenses. Remember he was speaking in front of an audiance! In an EVE event, on camera! This is a historical debacle of epic proportions! Shocked

If they forgive him it will not be fair to all the other players that got banned. I think it's over, they will kick him out of the game, his sincere apology will not suffice.

Never give a microphone to a drunk person!
Prince Kobol
#2100 - 2012-03-27 18:17:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Prince Kobol
Andrea Roche wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
Meissa Anunthiel wrote:
First off, it's not something I'd ever say personally and find objectionable because that's not what I do, but I'm not the goonest of the goons either so I also believe one has to keep a sense of proportion and perspective.

The Mittani, CEO of goonswarm and notorious ahole did a presentation, he did so in that quality. While he does also have a seat on the CSM, he didn't act in that capacity anymore than he did act as a lawyer, as an american or as a male. Saying it's the same thing would be akin to saying "American incite others to harass blokes, death to all americans".

Circumstances play a role, it's fanfest where goons spend days pretending to be idiots or griefers. There was also booze involved.

It's blown out of proportion, people would do well to get out of the lynch mentality and analyze the actual damage/impact for a moment before calling for blood, or are we requesting that CCP ban all those who "hoped" CCP Soundwave would die in a fire for InCarna?


That would depend, did they do it in front of thousand of people, hundreds who were present and then thousand more in front of a live tv feed at an official CCP Event.

Did it then get the attention of numerous gaming internet sites (hopefully it goes no further) ?

Also didn't helicity boson get banned for telling CCP Zinfandel that death by fire would be too quick ?


HB???


updated post