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My Apology

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JamesCLK
#1941 - 2012-03-27 16:16:05 UTC
Mogadishu Yacht-Club wrote:
I know what needs to happen.
The Mittani needs to create an "Anti-whiny ***** that makes groundless suicidal threats and how to not ask people to go forth and help bring about their demise for the betterment of humanity psa".
Everything will be okay after that.


Yeah, or alternatively they could just make EVE an M rated game and be done with it.
Then there would be less "think of the children".

Somehow I don't think that's going to happen though.

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Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1942 - 2012-03-27 16:16:38 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.



1) Arguable really, this section seems to cover it to me:
'You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.'

2) So that makes it Ok?


"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1943 - 2012-03-27 16:17:22 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.

So you're projecting on what those people want including myself. At least 6000 of those voters wanted Mittani to represent them. We've already done our exit poll which we've counted how many have given their vote. 3 of my votes are for Mittani.



I'm not projecting anything. I said if the guy was really accepting any type of redemption he would step down. He's spent more than enough time in CSM. Had his gaming celebrity fun and all but dude just messed up. It's okay, it happens but just because it happens doesn't mean he's cool..

Weather he's in or not doesn't really effect my day to day gameplay, it's other peoples concious that have to deal with it. Even if they choose to sale themselves out 3 times over..

Really?
Quote:
People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.
I certainly did and this does not change my vote. Projecting.


So did people choose him to get drunk and then goin on some immature "black out" rant about some guys emotional condition and how he could fix it by just offing himself..

Or "Projecting" the fact that he was talking about suicide..

Even as a hoax somethings need to be left alone. That's view on it, the immaturity people express when giving a pedistal is silly.. He just went too far on this one, and touched a subject that could've very well been avoided if he just..

Didn't act like a child at the most inconvient time..
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1944 - 2012-03-27 16:17:37 UTC
Karadion wrote:
"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "


However, he was at fanfest - a venue under the jurisdiction of CCP. As chair of the CSM, he should be the epitome of the players of EVE. How do you think these actions reflect upon us?

Dodixie > Hek
Prince Kobol
#1945 - 2012-03-27 16:18:15 UTC
Ice Fist wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Aldarica wrote:
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.


Kneejerk resignations are stupid whether they happen in business, politics or internet spaceship slapfights. And a couple of poorly researched negative articles on a few niche gamer websites are hardly worldwide bad publicity. Google news search "Eve Online" or "Eve Fanfest" and I only see 3 hits, none of them main articles. When some mainstream media picks up on it then you'll have a point but they tend to do a little more research than web forums and twitter.


But dude, there was a massively article! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE READ THAT SITE!?!?!?!?!?!


The fact that Massively often run articles about Eve Online, interviews CCP Employees, shows that CCP care a lot about what Massively think and that is what is important.
Mogadishu Yacht-Club
Internet Space Ship Game
#1946 - 2012-03-27 16:18:40 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
Mogadishu Yacht-Club wrote:
I know what needs to happen.
The Mittani needs to create an "Anti-whiny ***** that makes groundless suicidal threats and how to not ask people to go forth and help bring about their demise for the betterment of humanity psa".
Everything will be okay after that.


Yeah, or alternatively they could just make EVE an M rated game and be done with it.
Then there would be less "think of the children".

Somehow I don't think that's going to happen though.


Considering that "M" is just an ESRB rating, and is really useless overall, there's a little box right next to the one with the "T for Teen," that says "Online interactions not rated."
JamesCLK
#1947 - 2012-03-27 16:18:49 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Karadion wrote:
"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "


However, he was at fanfest - a venue under the jurisdiction of CCP. As chair of the CSM, he should be the epitome of the players of EVE. How do you think these actions reflect upon us?


He was not at the alliance panel as Chairman of CSM 6, he was there as The Mittani, CEO of Goonswarm.
How hard it it to understand this?

-- -.-- / -.-. .-.. --- -. . / .. ... / - --- --- / . -..- .--. . -. ... .. ...- . / - --- / ..- -. -.. --- -.-. -.- / ... - --- .--. / .--. .-.. . .- ... . / ... . -. -.. / .... . .-.. .--. / ... - --- .--.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1948 - 2012-03-27 16:19:17 UTC
Kara Roideater wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Skogen Gump wrote:
It's there in black and white; whether illegal or not - it is immoral, heinous and against the TOS and quite frankly a sad kick in the face to CCP after all the goodwill of the Fanfest.
The TOS does not apply to fanfest / outside the game. Did you even read the TOS? Let me answer that for you. No, you didn't.


You sure about that? Because if I remember correctly plenty of people have been banned for out of game actions that breached the ToS, including Helicity Boson for an out of game exchange of emails with a mod last summer. But I'm sure you can find a quote that shows that all the points in the ToS only apply to ingame interactions. Or, actually, you probably can't.

You just answered your own question. Given the story of what Helicity did, it applied to the game.

"You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. "
Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#1949 - 2012-03-27 16:19:35 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.



1) Arguable really, this section seems to cover it to me:
'You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.'

He didn't "abuse, harass, or threaten" anyone. He suggested that other people do it, and gave the information necessary to do so. If I tell you where a knife is and suggest that you kill someone with it, am I a murderer?

Quote:
2) So that makes it Ok?

My point is that you can't use morality as a logical argument point. It varies form person to person and culture to culture. You can't just enforce your moral standpoint on other people because you think it's correct.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1950 - 2012-03-27 16:19:52 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
Karadion wrote:
"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "


However, he was at fanfest - a venue under the jurisdiction of CCP. As chair of the CSM, he should be the epitome of the players of EVE. How do you think these actions reflect upon us?

Read it again. "occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site"
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
#1951 - 2012-03-27 16:21:07 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Skogen Gump wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.



1) Arguable really, this section seems to cover it to me:
'You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.'

2) So that makes it Ok?


"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "



But didn't they stream it on their website though?
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1952 - 2012-03-27 16:21:21 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
Ice Fist wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Aldarica wrote:
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.


Kneejerk resignations are stupid whether they happen in business, politics or internet spaceship slapfights. And a couple of poorly researched negative articles on a few niche gamer websites are hardly worldwide bad publicity. Google news search "Eve Online" or "Eve Fanfest" and I only see 3 hits, none of them main articles. When some mainstream media picks up on it then you'll have a point but they tend to do a little more research than web forums and twitter.


But dude, there was a massively article! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE READ THAT SITE!?!?!?!?!?!


The fact that Massively often run articles about Eve Online, interviews CCP Employees, shows that CCP care a lot about what Massively think and that is what is important.


It's also fairly common knowledge that the guy that writes those columns bears a huge grudge against Mittens.
Prince Kobol
#1953 - 2012-03-27 16:22:11 UTC
Truth be told all this talk about whether he broke the EULA/TOS is pointless.

If CCP what to ban him they will, if they want to remove him from the CSM, they will.

It is their game, they make the rules.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1954 - 2012-03-27 16:22:33 UTC
Krell Kroenen wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Skogen Gump wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.



1) Arguable really, this section seems to cover it to me:
'You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.'

2) So that makes it Ok?


"You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals. We are not responsible for actions taken by our subscribers that occur outside the jurisdiction of our game servers or web site. "



But didn't they stream it on their website though?
And? So you're saying that a person is a website now? We're all codes?
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1955 - 2012-03-27 16:22:50 UTC
JamesCLK wrote:
He was not at the alliance panel as Chairman of CSM 6, he was there as The Mittani, CEO of Goonswarm.
How hard it it to understand this?


Oh right! So it'd be perfectly acceptable for, say, Obama to make obscene and offensive comments if he went shopping with his family as the father of the Obama household, but not as the president of the USA? The paparazzi would have a field day. Besides - he's chairman of CSM 7 now.

Dodixie > Hek
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1956 - 2012-03-27 16:23:08 UTC
It has begun. Next episode of Dr. Phil to focus on cyber bullying.
Townsend Harris
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1957 - 2012-03-27 16:23:27 UTC
Ice Fist wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Aldarica wrote:
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.


Kneejerk resignations are stupid whether they happen in business, politics or internet spaceship slapfights. And a couple of poorly researched negative articles on a few niche gamer websites are hardly worldwide bad publicity. Google news search "Eve Online" or "Eve Fanfest" and I only see 3 hits, none of them main articles. When some mainstream media picks up on it then you'll have a point but they tend to do a little more research than web forums and twitter.


But dude, there was a massively article! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE READ THAT SITE!?!?!?!?!?!

2?
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1958 - 2012-03-27 16:23:46 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
JamesCLK wrote:
He was not at the alliance panel as Chairman of CSM 6, he was there as The Mittani, CEO of Goonswarm.
How hard it it to understand this?


Oh right! So it'd be perfectly acceptable for, say, Obama to make obscene and offensive comments if he went shopping with his family as the father of the Obama household, but not as the president of the USA? The paparazzi would have a field day. Besides - he's chairman of CSM 7 now.

He was Chairman of the CSM6 at the time. The results were announced the next day.
Joe Skellington
Sarz'na Khumatari
#1959 - 2012-03-27 16:23:54 UTC
This has all descended into "Melodrama", maybe it's time to move on and let the healing process begin? Just saying.

Please note that ASCII art is not permitted in the forum signatures. Spitfire
Marduk Nibiru
Chaos Delivery Systems
#1960 - 2012-03-27 16:24:24 UTC
Magnus Orin wrote:
Would demanding Seppuku at this point be too ironic?


If he amputates his little finger...that should suffice. Let's not go overboard here.