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My Apology

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ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1921 - 2012-03-27 16:00:58 UTC
Standard ex-laywer "I dun goofed" response. Nice to see a crack in the flawless Mittani facade, though Lol

Dodixie > Hek
Aldarica
Perkone
Caldari State
#1922 - 2012-03-27 16:02:42 UTC
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1923 - 2012-03-27 16:02:54 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
It's there in black and white; whether illegal or not - it is immoral, heinous and against the TOS and quite frankly a sad kick in the face to CCP after all the goodwill of the Fanfest.
The TOS does not apply to fanfest / outside the game. Did you even read the TOS? Let me answer that for you. No, you didn't.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1924 - 2012-03-27 16:03:07 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1925 - 2012-03-27 16:04:05 UTC
Rocky McMiner wrote:
My question is, if it was not intended to say these things, why have the convo with the miner saved?

may I interest you in my very own mittani thread?

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87117&find=unread

all "these things" were already said and posted 5 months ago

the mittani's role in the scam itself was extremely limited (he was sent the protection money) and the evemail conversation was stored/published by the goon who did all the legwork back in October/November.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1926 - 2012-03-27 16:05:06 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.

So you're projecting on what those people want including myself. At least 6000 of those voters wanted Mittani to represent them. We've already done our exit poll which we've counted how many have given their vote. 3 of my votes are for Mittani.
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
#1927 - 2012-03-27 16:06:44 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.



What happens if he does?

Do you smell what the Lock's cooking?
Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#1928 - 2012-03-27 16:07:33 UTC
Skogen Gump wrote:
Amity Lane wrote:
Wow...this conversation has gotten way off-topic while I was sleeping. Reminder time?

What this controversy is:

  • Whether or not a person in a position of power suggesting people break game rules (without breaking any himself in the process) is acceptable conduct
  • Whether or not a person who said they'd resign from said position of power actually resigns
  • Failscading into irrelevant drivel about suicide, bad press, faux legalese, TItans, carebears, and some guy who spends $345 a month to mine ice.


Consider that before you click the POST button on your next bit of "OMG MITTANI R MAEK ATTEMPTD MERDER" text-diarrrhea.


You're missing a fundamental thing here about what this is:

He incited harassment of someone to the end that said harassment might cause suicide.

It's there in black and white; whether illegal or not - it is immoral, heinous and against the TOS and quite frankly a sad kick in the face to CCP after all the goodwill of the Fanfest.

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.
Lexmana
#1929 - 2012-03-27 16:08:37 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.



What happens if he does?


Yeah, I want to know that too!
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1930 - 2012-03-27 16:09:34 UTC
Aldarica wrote:
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.


Kneejerk resignations are stupid whether they happen in business, politics or internet spaceship slapfights. And a couple of poorly researched negative articles on a few niche gamer websites are hardly worldwide bad publicity. Google news search "Eve Online" or "Eve Fanfest" and I only see 3 hits, none of them main articles. When some mainstream media picks up on it then you'll have a point but they tend to do a little more research than web forums and twitter.
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1931 - 2012-03-27 16:09:51 UTC
Karadion wrote:
The TOS does not apply to fanfest / outside the game. Did you even read the TOS? Let me answer that for you. No, you didn't.


Actually I have and Ammzi's comment is exceedingly relevant:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1014618#post1014618

Ammzi wrote:

Any behavior or actions considered being a material breach of the eula or tos
by a Csm representative is grounds for immediate dismissal and permanent
exclusion from all pending and future participation in the council.
There are no exceptions, regardless of the infraction. representatives are not only expected to
uphold the social contract that all society members are held accountable to, but
should also set a behavior standard for everyone else to follow.
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1932 - 2012-03-27 16:10:41 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.

So you're projecting on what those people want including myself. At least 6000 of those voters wanted Mittani to represent them. We've already done our exit poll which we've counted how many have given their vote. 3 of my votes are for Mittani.



I'm not projecting anything. I said if the guy was really accepting any type of redemption he would step down. He's spent more than enough time in CSM. Had his gaming celebrity fun and all but dude just messed up. It's okay, it happens but just because it happens doesn't mean he's cool..

Weather he's in or not doesn't really effect my day to day gameplay, it's other peoples concious that have to deal with it. Even if they choose to sale themselves out 3 times over..
Kallynda Nai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1933 - 2012-03-27 16:11:00 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.


Watch out, we've got a badass over here.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1934 - 2012-03-27 16:12:50 UTC
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.

So you're projecting on what those people want including myself. At least 6000 of those voters wanted Mittani to represent them. We've already done our exit poll which we've counted how many have given their vote. 3 of my votes are for Mittani.



I'm not projecting anything. I said if the guy was really accepting any type of redemption he would step down. He's spent more than enough time in CSM. Had his gaming celebrity fun and all but dude just messed up. It's okay, it happens but just because it happens doesn't mean he's cool..

Weather he's in or not doesn't really effect my day to day gameplay, it's other peoples concious that have to deal with it. Even if they choose to sale themselves out 3 times over..

Really?
Quote:
People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.
I certainly did and this does not change my vote. Projecting.
Magnus Orin
SUNDERING
Goonswarm Federation
#1935 - 2012-03-27 16:13:17 UTC
Would demanding Seppuku at this point be too ironic?
Apollo-Moor
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1936 - 2012-03-27 16:13:36 UTC
Lexmana wrote:
THE L0CK wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
Karadion wrote:
Apollo-Moor wrote:
You should step down. You have viloated the position you were granted as CSM. People choose you to speak for what the things they wanted in game.

Not for you to go out in a drunked state and harass people in "live" fashion. You've made a mistake and it's good that you've admitted to your error.

But you have not accepted the consequences of your action which will complete your raod to redemption that you are supposedly seeking.

Simply.. Step down..

Did you vote for him?


Does that matter? Cause no I didn't..

Don't test me goon.



What happens if he does?


Yeah, I want to know that too!


Can't ask someone to step down thats not in a position. So I guess some of the post of him leaving would stop. I don't know what you quoters are trying to get from me.

Being yourselves will give you the answer you need.. I don't have to time to find your answers for you..
Mogadishu Yacht-Club
Internet Space Ship Game
#1937 - 2012-03-27 16:13:41 UTC
I know what needs to happen.
The Mittani needs to create an "Anti-whiny ***** that makes groundless suicidal threats and how to not ask people to go forth and help bring about their demise for the betterment of humanity psa".
Everything will be okay after that.
Skogen Gump
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1938 - 2012-03-27 16:14:18 UTC
Amity Lane wrote:

1. There's nothing in the TOS about telling people to break the rules. What The Mittani said is no different from saying something like "hey guys, you should start botting". He didn't actually harass anyone.

2. I was unaware there was some kind of Global Morality Code that decides what is moral and what is not. I guess I can move back to Israel now, 'cause that whole morality conflict is all sorted.



1) Arguable really, this section seems to cover it to me:
'You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers.'

2) So that makes it Ok?
Ice Fist
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1939 - 2012-03-27 16:14:23 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Aldarica wrote:
Interesting how reasonable calls for Mittens to act like a grown man (for a change), take responsibility for his actions and honorably resign in order to lessen pressure from bad publicity CCP and EVE are right now receiveing worldwide is regarded by Goons like someone wants to "hurt" them or their leader. Even if that might be true in case of some posters here, it's not really important - EVE is. Point is that this game, or more precisely our playerbase, already has ****** reputation in general gaming public, as it's being too often recognized as place of highest possible concentration of psychopats and all sorts of human filth. Leaving Mittens unscratched certainly won't help CCP to change this black picture.


Kneejerk resignations are stupid whether they happen in business, politics or internet spaceship slapfights. And a couple of poorly researched negative articles on a few niche gamer websites are hardly worldwide bad publicity. Google news search "Eve Online" or "Eve Fanfest" and I only see 3 hits, none of them main articles. When some mainstream media picks up on it then you'll have a point but they tend to do a little more research than web forums and twitter.


But dude, there was a massively article! DON'T YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE READ THAT SITE!?!?!?!?!?!
Kara Roideater
#1940 - 2012-03-27 16:15:22 UTC
Karadion wrote:
Skogen Gump wrote:
It's there in black and white; whether illegal or not - it is immoral, heinous and against the TOS and quite frankly a sad kick in the face to CCP after all the goodwill of the Fanfest.
The TOS does not apply to fanfest / outside the game. Did you even read the TOS? Let me answer that for you. No, you didn't.


You sure about that? Because if I remember correctly plenty of people have been banned for out of game actions that breached the ToS, including Helicity Boson for an out of game exchange of emails with a mod last summer. But I'm sure you can find a quote that shows that all the points in the ToS only apply to ingame interactions. Or, actually, you probably can't.