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Structure hit points on a mining barge
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#1 - 2012-03-27 10:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, for example a Hulk (which is a T2 mining barge) should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca, both store lose ore.

Edited: to include explanations for things I thought were obvious

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Eryn Velasquez
#2 - 2012-03-27 10:53:28 UTC
This in deed would be the simplest solution against those hit'n'run (hit'n'die) gankers.

These are INDUSTRIALS, but they are weak like paperships.

_“A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.” ― Jean-Jacques Rousseau _
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-03-27 12:51:53 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, a Hulk should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca.

First off, the Hulk is an Exhumer. Not a Mining Barge.

But yes, they are too easy to kill nowadays. Yet somehow, I don't think adding more HP to their structure is going to help a lot. Sure, they'll be less likely to die in high-sec, but they will still be killed with ease in low-sec, null-sec and WH. How about giving them generally more HP, a bit more PG/CPU and 1 or 2 more Mid-slots, so they can survive until their allies arrive in Logis and HACs t deal with attackers (doesn't help them at all against Caps, of course). Simply adding more HP won't fix them for when Drones lose their compounds and miners will actually be valuable assets to any null-sec alliance. They need a chance to actually tank a bit of damage until someone can come and save them. This might also make it less likely to just send in one or two BCs with lots of DPS to destroy the enemy's mining fleets.

No, I don't live in null-sec, and I'm not going to say this will fix Mining vessels either. But it's more likely to fix them than just giving them more Structure HP, since high-sec miners never fit Damage Control Systems on their ships anyway.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-27 14:35:08 UTC
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, a Hulk should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca.

First off, the Hulk is an Exhumer. Not a Mining Barge.

But yes, they are too easy to kill nowadays. Yet somehow, I don't think adding more HP to their structure is going to help a lot. Sure, they'll be less likely to die in high-sec, but they will still be killed with ease in low-sec, null-sec and WH. How about giving them generally more HP, a bit more PG/CPU and 1 or 2 more Mid-slots, so they can survive until their allies arrive in Logis and HACs t deal with attackers (doesn't help them at all against Caps, of course). Simply adding more HP won't fix them for when Drones lose their compounds and miners will actually be valuable assets to any null-sec alliance. They need a chance to actually tank a bit of damage until someone can come and save them. This might also make it less likely to just send in one or two BCs with lots of DPS to destroy the enemy's mining fleets.

No, I don't live in null-sec, and I'm not going to say this will fix Mining vessels either. But it's more likely to fix them than just giving them more Structure HP, since high-sec miners never fit Damage Control Systems on their ships anyway.



Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.

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Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-27 15:29:55 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, a Hulk should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca.

First off, the Hulk is an Exhumer. Not a Mining Barge.

But yes, they are too easy to kill nowadays. Yet somehow, I don't think adding more HP to their structure is going to help a lot. Sure, they'll be less likely to die in high-sec, but they will still be killed with ease in low-sec, null-sec and WH. How about giving them generally more HP, a bit more PG/CPU and 1 or 2 more Mid-slots, so they can survive until their allies arrive in Logis and HACs t deal with attackers (doesn't help them at all against Caps, of course). Simply adding more HP won't fix them for when Drones lose their compounds and miners will actually be valuable assets to any null-sec alliance. They need a chance to actually tank a bit of damage until someone can come and save them. This might also make it less likely to just send in one or two BCs with lots of DPS to destroy the enemy's mining fleets.

No, I don't live in null-sec, and I'm not going to say this will fix Mining vessels either. But it's more likely to fix them than just giving them more Structure HP, since high-sec miners never fit Damage Control Systems on their ships anyway.



Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.

Technically, the Orca isn't a Capital Ship. It's an Industrial Command Ship, but due to its sheer size and lack of maneuverability, it is classified as a Capital Ship on the Market. As far as I know, it's currently perfectly possible to build Orcas in Large Ship Assembly Arrays, although the components needed are built at Capital Ship Assembly Arrays, if I'm not mistaken. Another thing is that Orcas can enter High-sec, just like Freighters and Jump Freighters. Why? Because they're not Capitals. They're just really huge Sub-Capital Ships built using Capital Components.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#6 - 2012-03-27 15:36:12 UTC
An Exhumer is a T2 version of a mining barge, lol, but if you want to quiblble then feel free. Shocked

Mining barges should have a stronger structure, I would add another low slot and make the structure 10,000 hit points and that will do it. I have setup a 0.0 mining Hulk and they can tank a couple of BS rats quite nicely.

I think it will make a big difference and means that people just need to fit a single DC to add to their survival and it makes sense that a mining ship has a very strong structure.

Plaude Pollard wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, a Hulk should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca.

First off, the Hulk is an Exhumer. Not a Mining Barge.

But yes, they are too easy to kill nowadays. Yet somehow, I don't think adding more HP to their structure is going to help a lot. Sure, they'll be less likely to die in high-sec, but they will still be killed with ease in low-sec, null-sec and WH. How about giving them generally more HP, a bit more PG/CPU and 1 or 2 more Mid-slots, so they can survive until their allies arrive in Logis and HACs t deal with attackers (doesn't help them at all against Caps, of course). Simply adding more HP won't fix them for when Drones lose their compounds and miners will actually be valuable assets to any null-sec alliance. They need a chance to actually tank a bit of damage until someone can come and save them. This might also make it less likely to just send in one or two BCs with lots of DPS to destroy the enemy's mining fleets.

No, I don't live in null-sec, and I'm not going to say this will fix Mining vessels either. But it's more likely to fix them than just giving them more Structure HP, since high-sec miners never fit Damage Control Systems on their ships anyway.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#7 - 2012-03-27 15:39:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Drake Draconis wrote:
Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.


Mining barges take in ore, Orca's store ore which is stored presumably in a loose fashion , can you get the similarity there? Roll

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-27 17:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Plaude Pollard wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I think that the structure hit points on mining barges are quite frankly too low, a Hulk should have at least 10,000. Compare the Hulk to an Orca.

First off, the Hulk is an Exhumer. Not a Mining Barge.

But yes, they are too easy to kill nowadays. Yet somehow, I don't think adding more HP to their structure is going to help a lot. Sure, they'll be less likely to die in high-sec, but they will still be killed with ease in low-sec, null-sec and WH. How about giving them generally more HP, a bit more PG/CPU and 1 or 2 more Mid-slots, so they can survive until their allies arrive in Logis and HACs t deal with attackers (doesn't help them at all against Caps, of course). Simply adding more HP won't fix them for when Drones lose their compounds and miners will actually be valuable assets to any null-sec alliance. They need a chance to actually tank a bit of damage until someone can come and save them. This might also make it less likely to just send in one or two BCs with lots of DPS to destroy the enemy's mining fleets.

No, I don't live in null-sec, and I'm not going to say this will fix Mining vessels either. But it's more likely to fix them than just giving them more Structure HP, since high-sec miners never fit Damage Control Systems on their ships anyway.



Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.

Technically, the Orca isn't a Capital Ship. It's an Industrial Command Ship, but due to its sheer size and lack of maneuverability, it is classified as a Capital Ship on the Market. As far as I know, it's currently perfectly possible to build Orcas in Large Ship Assembly Arrays, although the components needed are built at Capital Ship Assembly Arrays, if I'm not mistaken. Another thing is that Orcas can enter High-sec, just like Freighters and Jump Freighters. Why? Because they're not Capitals. They're just really huge Sub-Capital Ships built using Capital Components.


Gonna have to disagree....the majority I hear from others is ships of that nature that are obscenely large and contain things like very large cargo holds and speciality hangers w/wo Jump Drives and such are calssified as capitial ships. You even said yourself it requires capitial parts to construct with.

Its just they are given a speciial "Dispensation" to be allowed to traverese Stargates.

Granted...I was like you....for a while I just referred to them as sub caps but honestly...I can't call an Orca a sub cap....its just too damn big for that. Granted..semantics...and not worth splitting hairs....so I'll just treat this as a respectful disagreement. :)

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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-27 17:19:07 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.


Mining barges take in ore, Orca's store ore which is stored presumably in a loose fashion , can you get the similarity there? Roll


Any ship in this game with some minor exceptions can take in ore.

Your point?

Your argument is in vast need of work.

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#10 - 2012-03-27 18:11:40 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.


Mining barges take in ore, Orca's store ore which is stored presumably in a loose fashion , can you get the similarity there? Roll


Any ship in this game with some minor exceptions can take in ore.

Your point?

Your argument is in vast need of work.


I am working on the premise that an ore hold is a special hold requiring a heavy structure in the Orca and that as the Hulk takes in raw ore it needs a strong structure too. Surely you can work that back?

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-27 18:30:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Dracvlad wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Add to that.....the hulk is NOT a Capital Ship like the Orca...so please do make foolish comparisons.


Mining barges take in ore, Orca's store ore which is stored presumably in a loose fashion , can you get the similarity there? Roll


Any ship in this game with some minor exceptions can take in ore.

Your point?

Your argument is in vast need of work.


I am working on the premise that an ore hold is a special hold requiring a heavy structure in the Orca and that as the Hulk takes in raw ore it needs a strong structure too. Surely you can work that back?


You also need strong structure to hold explosive ammo/bombs/missiles of various kinds/forms/fashions.

Again...your logic is reaching....very poor reasoning to buff structure points on a mining ship.
Additionally...the Orca is not just an ore hauling ship...it also has a Corperate Hanger...and a Ship Maintence Array.

Its cargo hold is many times larger than most.


While I wouldn't mind such things personally as an industriliast...I always was under the impression you should have a fleet near by to protect.

Yes...null sec logic.

But then in High Sec I never mine in high traffic zones.

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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#12 - 2012-03-27 20:06:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
Well that was annoying the forum lost all that I just typed

Lets try again, your logic in terms of the ammo is flawed and has no relationship to large chunks of ore that are uneven and very bulky and of course are not constrained by gravity or special racks fitted to the ship. Anyway if you want to think that a hold for ammo is the same as a hold for ore than feel free, but it does not make any sense.

I am very interested in the crimewatch proposals at fanfest, because at the moment if you have a covering fleet in High Sec you have to ask the ganker to flip a can so you can try to stop him, I wonder how many would do that? Lol And in terms of out of the way places, well I tended to mine in systems well away from low sec. But I have not been in a Hulk for over 6 months and even then that was only for a special reason. Until a Hulk has a hull stronger then a wet paper bag I guess I won't be bothering at all.

But I have no issues with Hulks being ganked, my issue is that they are so weak in terms of stucture that even a solo catalyst can now kill one and have time to get the pod too. And my concern above anything else is that CCP decide to nerf tier 3 BC's which I do not want to see.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp