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Is this Fanfest public behavior actually okay? Are there any limits?

Author
Blinking Duck
The Kurian Order
#221 - 2012-03-26 19:11:37 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:

As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.


There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.



Damn....the fear is strong with this one.
Twulf
Thunder Clap Industry
League 0f Grumpy 0ld Farts
#222 - 2012-03-26 19:11:50 UTC
Christopher Merchentson wrote:
If the harassment did continue and the guy ended up killing himself CCP can be held liable if it were a American company. Not sure about the fact that it's a foreign company.


Criminally not much but they could ban products from the company in the USA.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#223 - 2012-03-26 19:32:45 UTC
This is a big deal.

the goons still think its a game.

If CCP does not act on this the media will not let it go.

To many cases of cyber bullying going to far make sure that CCP cannot ignore this.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#224 - 2012-03-26 19:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Eian
This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. In RL and in game I'm kinda known as being a hard core mother. I was watching this live on stream and thought it was disgraceful behavior. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place.
Eian
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#225 - 2012-03-26 19:42:40 UTC
Whatayoke wrote:
Christopher Merchentson wrote:
American

foreign company


you americans, so funny.


He just lives here. He's not actually part of us. In fact we would like to offer him to the first taker.
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#226 - 2012-03-26 19:47:17 UTC
Well, this scandal is breaking out on all major gaming websites.

CCP has a major PR disaster on its hands. Every normal gamer will steer clear of EVE.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#227 - 2012-03-26 19:50:27 UTC
Eian wrote:
This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. In RL and in game I'm kinda known as being a hard core mother. I was watching this live on stream and thought it was disgraceful behavior. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place.

Not really. While the CCP moderator present (I gather) definitely should have stopped this, and while I also feel CCP could use a little heavier hand in community policing in general, the only person to blame for what happened is The Mittani himself. CCP should be judged according to how they will react to what happened, not by it having happened.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#228 - 2012-03-26 20:40:32 UTC
If anyone is actually interested in the person in question, instead of bashing Mittens, he is alive and well and still playing the game.

Of course, none of you actually care about that.

Is there any space on the bandwagon? My NPC corp Jita price checker alt has some badpoasting to do.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
#229 - 2012-03-26 20:57:18 UTC
RougeOperator wrote:
This is a big deal.

the goons still think its a game.

If CCP does not act on this the media will not let it go.

To many cases of cyber bullying going to far make sure that CCP cannot ignore this.


This is the only way that anything will happen regarding this. The media will only put on enough pressure if the outraged keep the ball rolling....kind of a reverse goonswarm propaganda machine thing. Beating them at their own game might be fun...and it would certainly be very EvE.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#230 - 2012-03-26 21:02:08 UTC
EVE as a game encourages anti-social behavior. This is part of the game and expected by all participants. But we want anti-social behavior in the game, and not in the real world. Fan Fest is a great example of this: Enemies meet and drink together, because in the end, we are all players of the same game. This does mean, though, that there has to be a line as to what is not acceptable anymore. A line where the accepted and expected anti-social in-game behavior ends and where unacceptable behavior begins.

I do hope that CCP does a thorough investigation, and either decide that this line was not crossed here - and present an explanation as to why that line was not crossed here - or take the correct consequence and terminate the customer / service provider relationship with the player of "the mittani".

Oh, also:

The Mittani wrote:
deal with it~
This thread is doing just that. :-)
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#231 - 2012-03-26 21:03:05 UTC
Ban Bindy wrote:
and gave out his name at the panel.


Get a grip, they gave out the name of a video game character, not an actual humans name.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.

Kridak
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#232 - 2012-03-26 21:25:02 UTC
I rarely post on forums but this is just silly. Sure e-bullying is illegal and some cases where extreme bullying have led to suicide there have been guilty verdicts, but there's also been plenty of acquittals.

If you look this guy up in game there's a link that eventually leads to his blog, he seems to be doing just fine. You also have to read a bit into the e-mail that was presented in the Alliance panel, there's no mention of actual depression or suicide. There are some mention of it in a few blog posts on this e-bullied persons blog.

On this blog he also proclaims he drove his wife to poison herself. His ex-wife left him btw, and that was after going blind and def, how mean do you have to be that your wife who's recently lost two very important senses has the courage to leave.

I am for free-speech, which in my view includes bullying. Sadly somewhere the laws started changing and now lots of countries have made ideas and opinions illegal. You can be a Anti-semite (other word got censored), but you can't dislike a person? Hopefully CCP has the guts to form a opinion on this that's not just main--stream PC.


Actions have consequences, some actions should be illegal.

Ideas have consequences, should ideas be illegal? Who decides what ideas are illegal? In Iran (and many other countries) it's illegal to apostate. In the US it's illegal to call someone names, but only really if they kill themselves, otherwise usually you're acquitted. It's hypocritical to make one idea illegal just because you don't agree with it. I hate "1940's German people" and love gay people, in Iran that's illegal, in Sweden that's just being normal. I hate door-salesmen, literally despise them, especially if it's a religion they're selling, I feel physically unclean if I accidentally open the door for them, under no circumstances should they ever be outlawed and in return I can yell all I want at them before I slam the door in their face.
Jeremy X
Audub0n Ballroom
#233 - 2012-03-26 21:43:47 UTC
OK the purpose of the CSM is to represent the player base of EVE.

And the thing is that some of that player base is pretty base. Low empathy smack talking harrasing stalker scumbags of dubious humanity need representation too. And clearly Mittens is doing a great job of representing these folks.

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#234 - 2012-03-26 21:45:49 UTC
So, someone has actually spoken to the guy, and he doesn't give a ****.

http://paste.pocoo.org/show/571748/

Quote:
[21:30:50] The Wis > Ok.. Well that is nice. Hmm.. wait.. If i do kill my self they might arrest him and prosicute him since he is in the US.. That would really be bad for him.
[21:31:01] The Wis > Just kidding of course but a thought.
[21:31:20] The Wis > Fly safe. I have real life stuff to do now

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#235 - 2012-03-26 21:47:10 UTC
So, if the guy who is being "driven to suicide by cyberbullying" doesn't give two *****, can all you blowhards now go and biomass?

kthnx

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#236 - 2012-03-26 22:26:09 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Eian wrote:
This whole drunken thing was a disservice to EVE the game and the community. In RL and in game I'm kinda known as being a hard core mother. I was watching this live on stream and thought it was disgraceful behavior. No matter what happened it's CCP's fault for allowing this kind of behavior to happen in the first place.

Not really. While the CCP moderator present (I gather) definitely should have stopped this, and while I also feel CCP could use a little heavier hand in community policing in general, the only person to blame for what happened is The Mittani himself. CCP should be judged according to how they will react to what happened, not by it having happened.

I have to disagree to an extent. People like Mr. Gianturco are not interested in being held accountable for anything. His attitude proves this and there should be no doubt. They simply do not comprehend and are not interested in understanding where social and ettiquette boundaries are. You'd be better off talking to a chair or a rock. You have to expect that there will be a few human beings that are going to do whatever they have to for some attention and to prove they are the "baddest a-hole" in the world. And if the threat were realized it would be a joke to this clown and his followers.

CCP, on the other hand, NEEDS to expect and prepare for this. And they didn't. Not only that, but even after Mr. Gianturco's invitation to his audience to provoke his victim's suicide nothing was done to ammend the situation. I feel like it's been only after the reaction of its playerbase that some action has been taken. And even worse yet, he continues to be a CCP and community liason; a representative of this community.

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.

Forest Hill
Tirones Inc.
#237 - 2012-03-26 22:59:41 UTC
Wasn't a famous player permabanned last year, during the 'summer of rage', after wishing a dev would 'die in a fire'? Even while many regarded that as a clear in game reference, CCP didn't interpret it as such, at that time. It'll be interesting to see what they do with this one.
RougeOperator
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2012-03-27 00:54:18 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
So, if the guy who is being "driven to suicide by cyberbullying" doesn't give two *****, can all you blowhards now go and biomass?

kthnx



Its not about that one guy its about the next guy or the next ten guys or gals. Who may not be able to get over it.


Its a matter of precedent.

**Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence" **

Del Vikus
Sundered Core
#239 - 2012-03-27 04:59:51 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Crying about people being drunk and partying at Fanfest is like crying about suicide ganking and nonconsensual PvP in the client itself.


You're confusing in-game grief with RL grief.

That reflects a serious error in judgment on your part.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#240 - 2012-03-27 06:11:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Regarding whether Mitten's behavior was acceptable, it does not matter if the guy really meant to off himself or if he does that. It also does not matter if Mittani really wanted him to die or not. His using his reputation and the Fanfest event to call for the harassment of an individual player would have been out of line even if the guy had never mentioned anything beyond not particularly liking being harassed by Goonies. Most bullying is meant as a joke by the bully. That does not make it alright.

The outrage is not about pity towards someone who has trouble dealing with Goonies in the game. The outrage is about someone abusing a position of trust to "play" against other players in such a way that is intended to cause bad feelings.