Assembly Hall

Or the current system, being in a giant alliance is a red flag for never ending wardecks by greifers at the jita 4 undock.

I think new system is good, you pay proportionally to how many targets you want. They should keep track of active subs and trials and not count them, but beyond that, no issue of having a real cost to making wars, thats not pocket change.

Furthermore, pvp, get out of highsec seriously.

TL;DR: You point out minor issues in their proposal, yet your own proposal repeats them, makes them worse and creates new ones, but you conveniently ignore all that. CCP has given this more thought and their proposal is better.

I'm not convinced your proposal is better than what CCP has in mind. Yes it promotes the use of alts, but the cost rises about 500k per character on a fully paid active account. This can be used to ramp up the cost, but it is in no way a decshield. This can also seen as a good thing, since you have incentive to get rid of the huge number of one man corps and create larger, more fuctional corps as a response. This is a good thing for the game and the players.

It also doesn't make large entities more safe. The reason being the cost increase per member isn't huge and cost also increase with your wardec count. This balances it out, since a large entity has to dec a lot of small corps in order to get equivalent funzis out of the system and the cost increases with the number of wardecs you have while the cost/character is the same. In a system like this it's a bad option to dec every random small corp you come accross. Point being your issues with the new proposal are insignificant at best and they also have good side benefits.

Your counter proposal also has the same weaknesses as the CCP proposal, but in a different, worse form. Since the cost is determined by the number of people in the attacking corp, it makes manipulation of the price very easy in favor of the attacker. All you need is a 1 person corp deccing people, have people transfer to it after the bill is payed and keep on the war at minimum cost to the attacker. It's a system with another loophole that allows bypassing the intent and balancing in the system. This is bad in general and is the reason we needed a fix in the first place. There is no point intentionally bringing them back, especially to fix trivial issues in the proposed system.

As for the benefits you mention.

Alt-shield:

It doesn't work in the proposal and consolidates players in larger, more capable organisations. This isn't a bad thing.


Strive to be smaller:

No. It isn't a good goal to begin with and can be bypassed entirely by alt corps.


Bigger revenue - use less people:

As said you can bypass the limitation and same reward for smaller amount of people will bring larger gains in both systems. This is just common sense and can be done in every sytem if the players so choose.


Equal safety for all corp sizes:

They are pretty equal in the new system too. The cost increase per character remains equal and costs still increase with the number of decs you've made. It encourages engaging entities that can offer entertainment for you own entity, which means deccing 20 small corps vs 1 large one is a huge waste of money and offers comparetively very little entertainment for the cost. So smaller corps are cheaper to dec and more vulnerable, but they are very unattractive options to larger entities.


Defender declarations also increase in cost:

Is this a good thing? It seems it only creates a needless barrier for the defender and makes mercenary contracts prohibitavely expensive to use for the smaller corps. Basicly meaning they are in an unequal position, since they can't afford to hire help from any large entity. In the CCP system they can freely negotiate with any merc they choose and they provide help according to the contract. In your system this would be hard, since you'd have to pay for the cost of 1k man ally, even when the agreement is sending a few ships to hep defend against an aggressor. This would create a heavy and damaging cost barrier, that would punish small entities and cripple the mercenary contract system. CCP's system is simply better.

This and other threads on similar topics continue to miss the key economic point -- CCP has revenue issues and has to take action to address them.

Every hard core gamer who gets into this game ends up, within six months or less, being able to pay for his gaming by buying PLEX ingame with isk. It's dog dirt simple, in fact -- you only need to make 20m a day and that can be done in an hour's play if you're ruthless enough, even if your 'toon is only one month old.

It follows that CCP makes all their RL money from a) those players who don't play enough to make 500m isk a month, plus b) new players that haven't figured it out yet, and c) new audiences such as DUST 514 first person shooter gamers, and d) people who prefer to pay 15 euro a month in order to put the isk into their ships and toys, plus e) vanity players who buy Plex for cash so they can have those shiny mods long before they can make the 500 million isk they cost.

War deccing for griefing presents a problem to ccp -- players in groups a), b), and e) get turned off and quit the game. BUT, ccp needs the revenue they represent, so the war dec mechanics have to be tweaked to let these [for now, they might change] carebears play the way they want to.

{Go ahead, look up my 'toon ingame -- you'll see that I'm old enough to grief any newb any time anywhere I want to -- and there's nothing the newb can do about my enormous advantage in skills and ships except either hide, quit EVE, or band very tightly together with other players and do nothing anywhere without friends in at least the same system. NOTHING.}

CCP can not afford to let new players who get enticed into EVE quit in large proportions within 90 days or even six months. They need the revenue.

Ergo, high sec griefing MUST be limited.

It rather follows that the ally system to combat war decs is going to be retained and some griefer corps are going to discover that they've bitten off quite a lot more than they can chew.

***
Nonetheless, ccp must also address the mechanics of neut alt reppers and station games, including 'bumping' ships with neuts.

***
I'm ambivalent about the target size/cost issues ... and ccp has to make a decision here that keeps newer players in the game and paying. It's that simple.

Thank you all for continuing the discussion while I was gone

Destination SkillQueue:

Yes what you have pointed out are valid points, but I think CCP can fix them as well. For example if corporation has declared wars charge the newly joined members the proper increment fee at full amount. This would prevent players bypassing the charges and make more stable corporations. (no more 1 today 100 tomorrow corps)

I have played Eve for 6 years with this character and 8 years total. I have been in corporations that are filled with alts before. It is a sorry existence - being in a 600+ man corporation with 10+ - 15+ online all the time and corp chat devoid of life. That is not something i would wish for

About equality - Actually with base cost present the cost per capita decreases the amount of isk paid per person, but the difference is negligible. Now it would be simply unprofitable to target large alliances with war declaration since no matter how much spoils you obtain the amount of isk spent on war declaration would overwhelm it

What you have said about prohibitive cost of larger defender corps is true but they also could potentially strive for smaller corps that consists of only pure active pilots w/o alt junk. It would also possible to have defender corporations that specialize in specific timezone



Sephiroth CloneIIV

Now they would potentially retaliate by simply hiring the defenders. And let the griefers and defenders wage war at Jita 4-


ViciousCycle

What CCP wants is to have PLEX at low enough isk price

Reason being CCP wants more people to buy PLEX - atm we do not have the shortage of PLEX at our hands. Main problem right now it the ISK influx into the game - there is no good ISK sinks atm in the game

And do not forget - you are talking about hardcore gamers - no everyone in eve is like that - there are some out there who have year old chars and perfectly fine paying RL money for the game. It all depends on how much you earn in RL if you can easily earn 15$ than 480mill isk then I think you might as well just pay for eve. Or even 9$ if you have yearly subscription

This is an Eve online - place where scamming is allowed - i think griefing is viable tactic as well. I dont want Carebear online anytime soon. Besides i personally flown industrials in high sec while beild WarDe