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Orcas and Refining (Awesome Mining Suggestion)
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Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-26 19:00:24 UTC
Hello miners

So currently there is a mining ship that fills almost every niche in the game for null sec corporations and high sec/low alike:

ArrowMercoxit
ArrowIce
ArrowShips with ore bays
ArrowShips with Ship Maint. Bays
ArrowMassive Cargo holds
ArrowClone vat bay
ArrowCorporation hangars
ArrowMining boosts

But currently no ship in the game has an option for In-Space refining. So i set my eyes on my orca. It has pretty much everything a station can offer:
ArrowLots of storage
ArrowFitting
ArrowCorporation hangars

Currently orca's are a must have for any industry corporation, And they can be used in high sec as an 'Alternative station' for pure mining corps.

AttentionSo what if you own sov in null sec, but the system has no station? You have your one or two floating space stations but no way to refine that precious ore you've mined. aha! An orca With a refining array on it. The orca can take ore from the Ore bay, refine it onboard and dump it in the cargo bay, Shiny minerals for all

This can be great for a corporation because:
ArrowYou can set a tax, like a Player Owned Customs Office
ArrowLonger mining Ops
ArrowAnother reason to buy the already versitile orca
ArrowLess trips too and from a station (High/low sec)
ArrowCan set the tax/wasteage factor with corporation/alliance standing

So that's my suggestion, id love if a dev can see this, i think it would be a great addition to the game currently.

Glad to hear what you all think about this, Please post suggestions/Comments
FlySafe

Ma na Ma Na
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#2 - 2012-03-26 19:05:20 UTC
Adaten Severasse wrote:
Hello miners

So currently there is a mining ship that fills almost every niche in the game for null sec corporations and high sec/low alike:

ArrowMercoxit
ArrowIce
ArrowShips with ore bays
ArrowShips with Ship Maint. Bays
ArrowMassive Cargo holds
ArrowClone vat bay
ArrowCorporation hangars
ArrowMining boosts

But currently no ship in the game has an option for In-Space refining. So i set my eyes on my orca. It has pretty much everything a station can offer:
ArrowLots of storage
ArrowFitting
ArrowCorporation hangars

Currently orca's are a must have for any industry corporation, And they can be used in high sec as an 'Alternative station' for pure mining corps.

AttentionSo what if you own sov in null sec, but the system has no station? You have your one or two floating space stations but no way to refine that precious ore you've mined. aha! An orca With a refining array on it. The orca can take ore from the Ore bay, refine it onboard and dump it in the cargo bay, Shiny minerals for all

This can be great for a corporation because:
ArrowYou can set a tax, like a Player Owned Customs Office
ArrowLonger mining Ops
ArrowAnother reason to buy the already versitile orca
ArrowLess trips too and from a station (High/low sec)
ArrowCan set the tax/wasteage factor with corporation/alliance standing

So that's my suggestion, id love if a dev can see this, i think it would be a great addition to the game currently.

Glad to hear what you all think about this, Please post suggestions/Comments
FlySafe


I really like the idea of a mobile in space refining system of some sort. This might be a good way to accomplish it!

Issler
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#3 - 2012-03-26 19:21:43 UTC
Not a good idea. What you do not realize is that nul alliances get a portion of what you refine as tax. that part "we keep" goes to the alliance coffers.

Also, there is a pos module, a refining array. Most nul sec alliances will kill your pos, kick your corp, and get very upset if you online one of those mods at a pos.

Lastly, if in nul, why would this not be a rorqual option more than an orca? Rocquals have compression already and thus would defeat the purpose of compressing ore in many cases. For an orca it would be far to powerful.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-03-26 19:46:13 UTC



Not trolling here, but why would you want to refine in space / belts (meaning not at a POS or station)? If its a transport / logistics issue you're looking to resolve the Rorqual handles it far better then refining ever would (through compression).

Also this ship ability would remove any need of the refining POS arrays (as Lady Ayeipsia mentioned) which all ready works good enough and offers the ability to refine at remote locations at a pretty small cost (25%).

The only way I can see this being of much use outside of existing game mechanics would be wormhole space, which you can still setup a refinery array or Rorqual in, or for corp members trying to bypass paying alliance fees in a station (refining taxes).

So yeah, similar mechanics exist, it would screw over alliances (allowing corps to bypass fees used to pay for station related stuff) and no one needs to be able to mine /refine arkonor prior to transporting. Its a pain in the ass moving it (m3 wise) because of its value. Being able to refine it before dealing with transporting would make nullsec / WH / grav sites mining far too easy and way to profitable.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-26 19:48:19 UTC
There is only one utility mining ship that should be used in null/low sec, the rorqual, an orca dies out of high sec. The refining is high sec is great with some skills and getting standings up i currently refine with no loss at all. The rorqual compresses the ore jumps to a system outside of high sec, compressed ore to other ships and send them to high sec refining station, if anything ask for a T2 industrial core, though the T1 fits the bill right now.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2012-03-26 23:34:49 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:



Not trolling here, but why would you want to refine in space / belts (meaning not at a POS or station)? If its a transport / logistics issue you're looking to resolve the Rorqual handles it far better then refining ever would (through compression).

Also this ship ability would remove any need of the refining POS arrays (as Lady Ayeipsia mentioned) which all ready works good enough and offers the ability to refine at remote locations at a pretty small cost (25%).

The only way I can see this being of much use outside of existing game mechanics would be wormhole space, which you can still setup a refinery array or Rorqual in, or for corp members trying to bypass paying alliance fees in a station (refining taxes).

So yeah, similar mechanics exist, it would screw over alliances (allowing corps to bypass fees used to pay for station related stuff) and no one needs to be able to mine /refine arkonor prior to transporting. Its a pain in the ass moving it (m3 wise) because of its value. Being able to refine it before dealing with transporting would make nullsec / WH / grav sites mining far too easy and way to profitable.



-Its so corporations can have some sort of a mobile 'Station' if you will,

Ma na Ma Na
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-26 23:37:49 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Not a good idea. What you do not realize is that nul alliances get a portion of what you refine as tax. that part "we keep" goes to the alliance coffers.

Also, there is a pos module, a refining array. Most nul sec alliances will kill your pos, kick your corp, and get very upset if you online one of those mods at a pos.

Lastly, if in nul, why would this not be a rorqual option more than an orca? Rocquals have compression already and thus would defeat the purpose of compressing ore in many cases. For an orca it would be far to powerful.



- this is so that the orca can be used in null sec aswell, it brings a new thing to do with an orca.
- As for the alliances getting mad at you, its a personal ship, not a refine array

Ma na Ma Na
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2012-03-27 00:01:51 UTC
Old timers may remember the plans to make Industrial be able to fit modules for industry, including a refinery, hence all Industrials have a lot more CPU than they should.

There was even the skill "Mobile Refinery Operation", which is now a collectable.

Don't know CCP's thoughts, though they are bringing back Salvage Drones.
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-03-27 01:36:45 UTC
Thats interesting, never knew about the Sk Bo

Ma na Ma Na
Janet Patton
Brony Express
#10 - 2012-03-27 03:37:55 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Old timers may remember the plans to make Industrial be able to fit modules for industry, including a refinery, hence all Industrials have a lot more CPU than they should.

There was even the skill "Mobile Refinery Operation", which is now a collectable.

Don't know CCP's thoughts, though they are bringing back Salvage Drones.


This is truth, if they wanted mobile refineries they would have done so with Industrials a long time ago.

Why do I have this sig? I don't smoke.
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-27 14:03:25 UTC
Can we get some dev clarification on this? the whole skillbook thing, and where are industrials now?

Ma na Ma Na
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#12 - 2012-03-27 15:48:41 UTC
Adaten Severasse wrote:
Can we get some dev clarification on this? the whole skillbook thing, and where are industrials now?


There is not much to clarify. Early on they had an idea for industrials that did not pan out, so they got regulated to being mini-freighters with an inappropriate name. Just like other skills that were introduced then removed, the skillbooks and training for them still exist, but they do not apply to anything.
Plaude Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-03-27 16:11:18 UTC
I like the basic idea of having the Orca being able to refine ore on-site. Yet somehow, I can't help but notice the downside to this. As someone else pointed out, Null-sec alliances who own stations with refinery-facilities will be pretty pissed off at you for denying them the refinery taxes. But that's an issue the individual pilot will have to deal with. It also liberates many industry-corps from tirelessly grinding boring missions every time they move to a new system.

New to EVE? Want to learn? The Crimson Cartel will train you in the fields of _**your **_choice. Mainly active in EU afternoons and evenings. Contact me for more info.
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
#14 - 2012-03-27 17:41:42 UTC
"Awesome" and "good" aren't exactly the same thing.

It'd be awesome to be able to kill everything in a frigate. But that'd completely break the game... This change you suggest would only break a large aspect of the game.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#15 - 2012-03-27 21:52:32 UTC
Yeah if/when we ever get an industry expansion, I'd love the current POS refinery arrays to be looked at. Something like this could be an awesome addition instead.

What about my Rorqual? Big smile

.
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-03-27 22:12:36 UTC
Revolution Rising wrote:
Yeah if/when we ever get an industry expansion, I'd love the current POS refinery arrays to be looked at. Something like this could be an awesome addition instead.

What about my Rorqual? Big smile



Rorqual /is/ a floating space station,,,, BUT with no refining!

Ma na Ma Na
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2012-03-28 20:41:40 UTC
shameless self bump

Ma na Ma Na
Skorpynekomimi
#18 - 2012-03-28 20:52:08 UTC
The rorqual exists to compress and store ore, before jumping it to a station in lowsec or an outpost, where you can refine it.

However, a specific ship for industry in spaaace might be good. That, or something akin to a mobile corp hangar. Sort of like an orca you can anchor like a GSC, and leave it there without risking someone else just hopping in and taking it.

Economic PVP
Adaten Severasse
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2012-03-28 23:02:48 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Not a good idea. What you do not realize is that nul alliances get a portion of what you refine as tax. that part "we keep" goes to the alliance coffers.

Also, there is a pos module, a refining array. Most nul sec alliances will kill your pos, kick your corp, and get very upset if you online one of those mods at a pos.

Lastly, if in nul, why would this not be a rorqual option more than an orca? Rocquals have compression already and thus would defeat the purpose of compressing ore in many cases. For an orca it would be far to powerful.


http://e621.net/data/f6/b1/f6b1e5e60209f61e2b8db7114c00537e.swf

Ma na Ma Na
LifeHatesMe
LifeHatesUsAll
#20 - 2012-03-29 05:48:43 UTC
Quite confusing.. rorqual has a 250,000 m3 ore bay, 40,000 m3 stock cargo bay, and a 30,000 m3 corporate hangar bay.

320,000 m3 total

Compression is 40x for commons, and 20x for rares. Granted you do need to siege to compress ores. (Means you need a stack of Heavy Water.)

Buy a Rorqual? I still don't see why they need to be limited to 0.4 and above.

On that note. I think it's about time they unnerf the Freighters pulling/accessing cans in space. I'm sorry, but a ~30-35m isk fit for a Iteron 5 with 37,000 m3 ain't enough! :/

Alternatives are what? Another rorqual? That's 2.1b. Another Orca? That's 500m. Better haulers please!
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