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Is this Fanfest public behavior actually okay? Are there any limits?

Author
Andrea Griffin
#201 - 2012-03-26 17:22:47 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Fine.

Then I am going to launch a petition against everyone who has threatened me real world harm. I expect CCP to permaban them. I also expect them to release their real names so I can pursue a police investigation.
You should petition any real-life threat. It's not acceptable. Granted, those threats are hard to take seriously since it's hard to figure out where you live unless you outright tell them, but its not impossible. That doesn't mean that it is acceptable behavior.

CCP takes that stuff seriously. They're quick to take action on those kinds of issues.
tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Pandemic Horde
#202 - 2012-03-26 17:25:01 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
See the thread Fanfest Alliance Panel Disgusting.

See in particular post #68, in which someone's in game eve mail is posted to the forums.

If this is what these people actually did and said at the panel, this is so totally disgusting and sadistic that it can't be accepted.

I don't care about what happens in the game, since I can't do anything about it.

Holding someone up to PUBLIC ridicule in real life and following it up by encouraging people to continue this behavior on the forums, by posting the guy's eve mail to the forums, is not acceptable behavior by a human being.

You should read the thread if you want background. The quick version is that this person was apparently very rich in the tears that these plays love so much. He is referred to as depressed and suicidal. If the thread is accurate, our CSM chair encouraged people to get in touch with this guy and harass him further and gave out his name at the panel. Someone followed this up by posting one of the guy's eve mails to the forums.

These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


deal with it~



HOLY **** - IS THIS YOUR ******* ANSWER? YOU ABSOLUTE LOW LIFE!!

All my views are my own - never be afraid to post with your main, unless you're going to post some dumb shit

Blinking Duck
The Kurian Order
#203 - 2012-03-26 17:29:00 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Kids will be kids.

I'd be more concerned if the behaviour continued outside the halls of fanfest whilst wearing CCP embossed garments perhaps?


No dude.

Mittani needs to be VERY careful!

There is a recent case very similar to this where the guy got a 10 year sentence because the guy did kill himself and he only got 10 years because the law wouldn't allow a higher sentence.

The Mittani is not 'a kid' under the law and what he did is very very dangerous to himself (Mittani). The Mittani should probably act with all aggressiveness to try to extricate himself from this or his life could turn to crap really fast.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#204 - 2012-03-26 17:46:08 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Killer Gandry wrote:
But you have to admit that there are people out there who take this kind of stuff way too serious. Is Mittens someone who is qualified to see if this guy is merely seeking attention or has reeal suicidal tendencies?


Fine.

Then I am going to launch a petition against everyone who has threatened me real world harm. I expect CCP to permaban them. I also expect them to release their real names so I can pursue a police investigation.

Should take quite a bit of time, since the instances here number in the dozens.

Or, perhaps, I can accept that words do not always convey their literal meaning and some are meant for effect over substance.


You will report out-of-game issues regarding harassment, such as threatening phone calls or correspondence, to your local law enforcement officials or Internet provider. CCP will not reveal personal information about its subscribers to unauthorized individuals.

If someone threatens me in the real world I don't petition CCP. I call the cops.
The cops then can have CCP release their real names to them and take the matter further.

Depending the outcome of such an investigation CCP may decide to either ban, warn or ignore that player.


You really should start reading up on the rules you agreed upon before trying to sound smug.



Luckily I know I'm right, because you're always on the wrong side of getting up in arms about things not being fair and angry posting about it.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

My Neutral Toon
Doomheim
#205 - 2012-03-26 17:48:18 UTC
People are just upset that Mittens won again, and the only reason they are upset is because others are upset



RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!




I would have told the guy to shoot himself too. The only people who are public with their depression/suicide thoughts are people who are looking for attention. People who are actually suicidal (and not mentally incapacitated) keep it to themselves. No one knows they are suicidal until they jump off a bridge.

...Can't. Tell. If ...Troll? Or Serious....

Butt Hurt about Harrasment? Read first GM post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2012-03-26 17:48:56 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
The Mittani wrote:
deal with it~



HOLY **** - IS THIS YOUR ******* ANSWER? YOU ABSOLUTE LOW LIFE!!


Mission accomplished

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#207 - 2012-03-26 17:50:34 UTC
The Mittani wrote:


deal with it~


Watch out guys.
We got ourselves a badass over here.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#208 - 2012-03-26 18:15:01 UTC
Well the responsible adults among us, certainly hope that he gets help and doesn't follow thru on his threat.

I'm curious though, you would think Mittani would be more concerned about this.
Online harrassment has gotten a lot of attention lately, people have been jailed for situations that led to death or serious injury. Certainly he can't be that out of touch with the real world....

So, is it the stupidest troll ever?

It's certainly bad enough to be...

Signature removed - CCP Eterne

Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#209 - 2012-03-26 18:16:57 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Professor Alphane wrote:
Not quite sure why your convinced I've got a mighty sword


The youtube videos you posted last night.



You seem to have me msitaken in 2 ways, identity and the imprssion you have I give a **** what you think


You respond to every post I make and you're obsessed with Mittens. You give a ****.


A strange game, the only winning move is not to play.

http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/

Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#210 - 2012-03-26 18:19:31 UTC
Khanh'rhh wrote:

Luckily I know I'm right, because you're always on the wrong side of getting up in arms about things not being fair and angry posting about it.


As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.

If your side is the right one then humanity lost.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#211 - 2012-03-26 18:24:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
No time to read the whole thread.

If this report: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/ is in any means accurate description of what Mittens said, this is a rather serious issue.

Shooting people in the game in order to try and "win" by forcing them out of the game is one thing. Gloating on local, yea, fine.

But this is a person in position of trust using that position and the publicity it brings to encourage others to harass a specific other player. The victim has no way to reach a similar audience and plead his case; even if he tried the influence that the position brings to the perpetrator would prevent him being heard on an equal basis. Moreover, the perpetrator already knows the target is depressed and suicidal, and still encourages this bullying. In most civilized countries that would probably count as a crime. In a civilized game, that should definitely count as an argument for the developers to ban him - in the very least to ban him from such positions of trust.

As much as I hate forum-whines of the "wah-wah I will quit unless you do what I like"... I for one take this seriously enough that if Mittens gets to continue in the CSM, I have to seriously consider whether I can morally justify giving CCP my money. I do not wish to in any shape or form to support this kind of malicious crap.

And no, I don't give an effing damn if Mitttens was drunk or sober at the time. An abusive drunk is still abusive, and "alcohol made me do it" is no excuse for bullying or violence.
Glarealot
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2012-03-26 18:29:19 UTC
The Mittani wrote:
Ban Bindy wrote:
See the thread Fanfest Alliance Panel Disgusting.

See in particular post #68, in which someone's in game eve mail is posted to the forums.

If this is what these people actually did and said at the panel, this is so totally disgusting and sadistic that it can't be accepted.

I don't care about what happens in the game, since I can't do anything about it.

Holding someone up to PUBLIC ridicule in real life and following it up by encouraging people to continue this behavior on the forums, by posting the guy's eve mail to the forums, is not acceptable behavior by a human being.

You should read the thread if you want background. The quick version is that this person was apparently very rich in the tears that these plays love so much. He is referred to as depressed and suicidal. If the thread is accurate, our CSM chair encouraged people to get in touch with this guy and harass him further and gave out his name at the panel. Someone followed this up by posting one of the guy's eve mails to the forums.

These are major eve players actually encouraging people to cause a play psychological harm, and in a PUBLIC context outside the game. This cannot be accepted.


deal with it~


http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png

.

Ladie Harlot
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2012-03-26 18:33:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Ladie Harlot
Killer Gandry wrote:

As far as I can see there are a lot more people than me who feel this was way out of line.


There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.

The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.

Tablaren
Mute Team 6ix
#214 - 2012-03-26 18:40:43 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
No time to read the whole thread.

If this report: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/ccp-investigates-player-panel-that-encouraged-cyber-bullying/ is in any means accurate description of what Mittens said, this is a rather serious issue.

Shooting people in the game in order to try and "win" by forcing them out of the game is one thing. Gloating on local, yea, fine.

But this is a person in position of trust using that position and the publicity it brings to encourage others to harass a specific other player. The victim has no way to reach a similar audience and plead his case; even if he tried the influence that the position brings to the perpetrator would prevent him being heard on an equal basis. Moreover, the perpetrator already knows the target is depressed and suicidal, and still encourages this bullying. In most civilized countries that would probably count as a crime. In a civilized game, that should definitely count as an argument for the developers to ban him - in the very least to ban him from such positions of trust.

As much as I hate forum-whines of the "wah-wah I will quit unless you do what I like"... I for one take this seriously enough that if Mittens gets to continue in the CSM, I have to seriously consider whether I can morally justify giving CCP my money. I do not wish to in any shape or form to support this kind of malicious crap.

And no, I don't give an effing damn if Mitttens was drunk or sober at the time. An abusive drunk is still abusive, and "alcohol made me do it" is no excuse for bullying or violence.



While usually I think that harassment is part of the game, at that point like Elsebeth states, this is no longer a case of harassment but actual criminal actions. Problem being nobody wants to take a stand and actually enforce anything online.

I imagine CCP won't do anything, they have the "We will investigate this" down pat. Even if at this point I can't believe he'd be allowed to keep his CSM post.

The CSM is by definition a player-base representation in order to bring forth the communities requests and feelings to CCP. It is not a position which is meant to give members a greather means to harass the playerbase they are supposed to be representing.
Shade Severii
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2012-03-26 18:40:43 UTC
1) **** all you white knights
2) I would never harass people in game, out of game, in real life etc. or condone it....its just not something that i consider fun
3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens.
4) I understand that EVE is more then just a game to some people (was once for me) but its a real slippery slope banning people for SAYING things as in EVE i see people saying horrible things and they are never banned.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#216 - 2012-03-26 18:50:58 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:

There's maybe half a dozen people who are mad (all their sockpuppets don't count). They were mad before fanfest too.


Calling someone a sockpuppet while handing a virtual BJ to someone else hardly gives your posting any value.


Shade Severii wrote:
1) **** all you white knights
2) I would never harass people in game, out of game, in real life etc. or condone it....its just not something that i consider fun
3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens.
4) I understand that EVE is more then just a game to some people (was once for me) but its a real slippery slope banning people for SAYING things as in EVE i see people saying horrible things and they are never banned.


We aren't at it because Mittens plays an ******* in the game. Heck that's his good right.
But if you can't see the difference between playing an online bastard and the crap he spouted at the Fanfest then I hardly see any point of even trying to explain the difference to you.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#217 - 2012-03-26 18:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Quote:
3) CCP should take whatever action they see fit and not listen to these idiots. BUT whatever action they take they need to be consistent with it and NOT just kick Mittens and just go back to how things were. I know at least 5 people who should be banned for being assholes in game IF they kick Mittens.

Are any of those people chairmen of the CSM?

Mittens needs not be kicked for being an ******* in game. He needs to be kicked (from the CSM at least) for being an ******* while the chair of a representative body of the player community and abusing that position to harass another player.

There is a difference. :)

Mind you, obviously it is CCP's decision to ban him or not. As it is my decision then to figure out if I can give them money if they don't. *shrug*
XavierVE
No Corporation for Old Spacemen
#218 - 2012-03-26 19:03:50 UTC
I made a thread on the forums asking for people to simply "boo" CCP Soundwave after that Fearless debacle.

Devs and GM's wigged out on me for calling for harassment against him, got moderated, threatened with a ban.

Guess I should have asked people to harass him until he committed suicide, that sort of thing is okay by CCP standards.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#219 - 2012-03-26 19:06:32 UTC
I'd wait until CCP makes the report after their investigation (or after several weeks have gone by so you can assume they are delaying it without informing us why) before assuming that this is ok by their standards.

After all, Mittens too, being a human, deserves that the case be thought about before decision is reached. Though personally I would suspend him from CSM until there is a decision in any case.
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#220 - 2012-03-26 19:08:54 UTC
XavierVE wrote:
I made a thread on the forums asking for people to simply "boo" CCP Soundwave after that Fearless debacle.

Devs and GM's wigged out on me for calling for harassment against him, got moderated, threatened with a ban.

Guess I should have asked people to harass him until he committed suicide, that sort of thing is okay by CCP standards.


Calling out for harassement in any form is unacceptable. Even per the rules CCP stated themselves.

Be confident they are looking at damagecontrol and how to save Mittens without losing too much face.
If you really want to be effective into getting CCP's unbiased attention to this do as Kestrel did. Get media on it. The more attention the less leeway CCP can give in this case.
If CCP wants to be taken serious then they have no other option than remove Mittens from the CSM minimal.

Or do rules have more bargaining room for the one than the other?