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If you play a high sec game, be afraid, be very afraid

First post
Author
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#101 - 2012-03-26 12:38:18 UTC
Ladie Harlot wrote:
Once we make it impossible to place a POS in highsec this game will get interesting again.


This is actually the best idea I have heard.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Victor Valka
Insterstellar Mining and Manufacturing
#102 - 2012-03-26 12:41:08 UTC
Grumpy Owly wrote:
Victor Valka wrote:
EVE IS DYING!!!11!00001011! Shocked


What? Wrong thread?


Please tell us who is offending you from behind and what we can do to help make it stop? TwistedBlink
Stop? Why'd I want that? Bear
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#103 - 2012-03-26 12:44:43 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Removing trillions of isk of guarenteed passive income each month from the game


i stopped reading at "Removing trillions of isk" because of course you probably think that moon goo adds ISK to the game

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#104 - 2012-03-26 12:45:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
**** highsec industry tbh


Ho because you think null sec industry is mainly done in null sec? - no

For a lot of reasons it's much better to produce in high sec then ship to null, sell those goods 20 to 250% more than high sec, they never loose whatever, by making disappear high sec small industrials you will only increase significantly the income of null sec industrials producing in high sec

What you are doing however is push high sec industrials, or at least those that will not leave the game, go to WH's. Knowing the number of interesting corporations/alliances that do this seriously, get ready to wine about ABC's mined in WH's again and blahblahblah

Take moon goo out of the alliances hands, nice stuff, it's the way that how this is going to change that is bad. Now don't be silly to think that it's you, random peon, that it's gonna take your shiny hulk and start mining R64 tomorrow because it will not be the case.

This is terribly bad for players if it's implemented strictly in 0.0, will not change that much for alliances since they have their own mining corporations but will just increase significantly fees charge for corporations living there that don't mine R64
You don't think alliances will just let the gazillions income of moon mining go like pouf just like that?

-they will get their income by increasing significantly the charge per player, thing is that the way CCP is intending to implement it, plus the reduction in bounty, it's terribly bad per peon.
(Im already not doing PI anymore because income/time spent is just stupid)
I don't see this increase the random peon income that much, but the older players playing for free with their dozen alts, the sames that already clean entire system anoms FTL, can clean "The Maze" faster than you'll ever clean a lvl3 alone, etc

CCP will never learn Malcanis law, they don't understand a crap of it or don't do the right thing, the point above will really change 0.0 card forever imho.
Cool, good days are coming, less time spent in front of the screen playing tedious games.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2012-03-26 12:45:26 UTC
Pheusia wrote:
Why is it that the people who say how easy and safe it is to farm BS rats and mine ABC ores in 0.0 are all mining veldspar and doing level 4s in hi-sec?


they like living on the edge

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Galega Ori
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-03-26 12:47:01 UTC
Skydell wrote:
You have pretty much condensed it to where it is going, OP.

High sec is going to become unplayable. "Be afraid" you say. Who? 10 years now, CCP have tried, tried and failed to herd the masses to null sec. You said so yourself. Most will just quit.

Who should be afraid here?


Last time I checked EVE was supposed to be a sandbox style game. So why dose CCP feel the need to take all my sand away and force me to play where i don't want to?

CCP Eterne: Silly Player, ALL devs are evil.

Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#107 - 2012-03-26 12:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
Quote:
but if they nerf all NPC income by 10%, yet Drones start having bounties, will not that be a wash for null sec income, but a high sec income nerf


If you think about it, NPC bounties are pretty common to the point that they bring in more ISK into the economy than Incursions according to CCP Recurve's Dev Blog on the matter. In fact, everywhere I go to mine there are NPC rats everywhere coming in about every 15 minutes or so and I usually take care of them with my drones. The bounties are pathetic in the short term for a single miner, but if you take into account the number of miners I run into along with all the other miners throughout high-sec that mine with drones deployed, the amount from bounties suddenly start looking like a flood.

As to how much bounties are gathered from belt rats compared to mission rats remains to be seen, though. But in a way, miners are directly contributing to the ISK faucet whenever they clear out a belt rat while mining. One way to get around this is buffer tank the mining ships to the point where the natural shield recharge rate can overcome the damage and just let the rats hang around, which is easy if you have a Hulk and you have fleet boosts. For Retrievers and Covetors, that is a different story as they have limited tank capabilities and are therefore forced to destroy the rats and thus contribute to the ISK faucet. Of course, T1 mining barges were never meant to be efficient tankers anyways and therefore are meant to be disposable mining vessels.

To me, however, the main issue is not about the ISK faucet from belt rats. I feel that the main issue is about the minerals coming from drones after you pop them. They are a huge crimp on our mining industry and therefore should end as soon as possible. But it's not just that. It's also the way how mining in general is setup. It's the least social, and the least interactive activity there is as it is right now. Therefore, mining is the least focus-driven career there is. I just hope that the CSM7 pushes CCP to iterate on that industry so that mining can be far more social, interactive and more focus-driven than before.

Adapt or Die

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#108 - 2012-03-26 12:53:54 UTC
Galega Ori wrote:
Skydell wrote:
You have pretty much condensed it to where it is going, OP.

High sec is going to become unplayable. "Be afraid" you say. Who? 10 years now, CCP have tried, tried and failed to herd the masses to null sec. You said so yourself. Most will just quit.

Who should be afraid here?


Last time I checked EVE was supposed to be a sandbox style game. So why dose CCP feel the need to take all my sand away and force me to play where i don't want to?


Where did they say they want to take your sand away?

Right, they didn't.

.

Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#109 - 2012-03-26 12:55:24 UTC
Galega Ori wrote:
Skydell wrote:
You have pretty much condensed it to where it is going, OP.

High sec is going to become unplayable. "Be afraid" you say. Who? 10 years now, CCP have tried, tried and failed to herd the masses to null sec. You said so yourself. Most will just quit.

Who should be afraid here?


Last time I checked EVE was supposed to be a sandbox style game. So why dose CCP feel the need to take all my sand away and force me to play where i don't want to?



CCP have been trying to spread people more thinly around for years now, reasoning for the most part was lag issues I believe.

But I've said it many times, you can't force people to go where they don't want to go, not if they have a choice. As paying customers they do have a choice.
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#110 - 2012-03-26 13:02:58 UTC
Hisec should be a free (if taxed) haven to trade and meet on neutral ground.
Scale industry shouldn't be permitted. Neither should big-time hunting.
But, that balances the real problem.

The real problem is that fights are had over nothing.
If someone wanders in low/null for no reason, he'll get killed for no reason.
Not resource protection, not territory protection, not even extortion. Just KMs.
Re-instate real ammo costs, appropriate defenses on industrial ships, impossibility to easily farm resources to attack no-value targets, remove KMs - and then we can talk about a groundbreaking hisec nerf.

The day hunts and kills are done on resource-based contends, nullsec dwellers can make a point that highsec shouldn't have even the potential to make as many resources as conquerable space.
Until kills are done at no-cost and to no scope, it's evident that nullsec's point isn't resources - is the fight itself.

When a roaming gang will see a mining fleet and it will NOT jump on it unless it's a known enemy / suspected to be such, removing hisec is ridicolous. It's not about risk-adversion: The "wastelands" activities aren't balanced on risk - attacking non-offending parties is riskless and costless.

When we'll have a point that nullsec is to be expanded (population-wise) due to actual resource-orientented gameplay, and not due to "lack of targets", highsec can be nerfed to the ground.

Until then, keep whining.
FTLENGAGE
FIRESTORM FORCE VXIX
#111 - 2012-03-26 13:03:05 UTC  |  Edited by: FTLENGAGE
Pheusia wrote:
FTLENGAGE wrote:
mechtech wrote:
Risk vs reward is what this game was founded on, and it's broken, way broken. High sec income needs to drop by 1/2 across the board, or content needs to be revamped to actually be difficult (lvl4s for example were created before rigs or T3 BSs were released).

so why is it so easy to farm rats in 0.0 with 0 risk?


Why is it that the people who say how easy and safe it is to farm BS rats and mine ABC ores in 0.0 are all mining veldspar and doing level 4s in hi-sec?

i lived in 0.0 for years on my other chars and it was always ridiculous how much isk you could make if you stopped pvping for a few hours.
i used to spent about 7 days a month ratting and that would easy cover the cost of plex on 3 accounts and all the losses i would make

with all the logistics that are available now 0.0 is to easy, jump bridges , jump drives etc.

the only risk is getting minerals/ships/mods from one part of highsec to a 0.4 system its a JOKE!


i remember when you had a fleet of 50-100 people full of zyd/megacyte traveling from 0.0 to empire in a huge conoy to keep it safe and split the risk of it all going up in smoke...

these days you stick it in a carrie and wave it good bye
Roime
Shiva Furnace
#112 - 2012-03-26 13:03:36 UTC
Where did they say that they will be forcing people to move somewhere?

Right, they didn't.

.

Sasha Azala
Doomheim
#113 - 2012-03-26 13:09:18 UTC
Roime wrote:
Where did they say that they will be forcing people to move somewhere?

Right, they didn't.




They don't have to directly say it.

Their actions/changes speak just as loud as words.



Like the time they tried to spread out the mission runners and instead forced mission runners to be more compacted away from the borders of low-sec.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#114 - 2012-03-26 13:10:51 UTC
Jade Constantine wrote:
Seriously chill out.

The problem with Eve the last few years is it got horribly stale and boring. People got stuck in their ways and much of the game turned into yawnsville online. Soundwave is right that it needs shaking to the core. Many forms of hisec income are too easy. Lowsec income definitely needs boosting in terms of interest and profitability and Nullsec passive moon income needed shooting in the head.

I wouldn't worry too much with theories of goon csms getting all they wanted btw. Chances are Mittani and crew will be kicking and screaming and whinging behind the scenes right up to the moment the ring-mining change happens and all the static moon goo wealth goes away. That will be the single most significant change the game has seen since moon-mining was introduced and it will turn 0.0 back into a brutal bloody warzone where alliances smash themselves to pieces in the quest for regional security and mining opportunity.

Impact on the rest of the game -> potentially immense as the prices of t2 ships and modules skyrocket - maybe it'll become more difficult for the average player to replace missioning nighthawks in the future but frankly - good.

Eve should be about interconnected systems where actions in one part of space impact players everywhere else. Last few years its like Hisec and Nullsec where separate shards and thats not how the game should work.


I only see a little problem in your reasoning: WH's.

And ship price? -T3's price should go down the hill pretty fast, because wh's will be the only place where you can build most of the T3 parts without need of whatever R64, then faction and DED stuff don't need R64 stuff neither.
Once those WH producers get how to get over the R64 skyrocket prices one problem will just be replaced by a probably bigger one.

Anyway, once implemented we'll see how good for the game all this stuff is and how good for the economy it is (no change imho because more valuable items=more trading revenue=more isk out of nowhere)

coolzero
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#115 - 2012-03-26 13:21:24 UTC
on the datecores..

nerfing them isnt fair imo at least for the persons who did the grinding before the reputatiuon change

i did my datacore agent before the reputation change and that took a hell of a long time to get those agents reputation(took me about a year + the skills.)

now you just have to get the reputation for the lowest lvl4 agents and you get all of the agents thus they made it waay to easy for everyone to farm data cores.

Roime
Shiva Furnace
#116 - 2012-03-26 13:21:59 UTC
Sasha Azala wrote:
Roime wrote:
Where did they say that they will be forcing people to move somewhere?

Right, they didn't.




They don't have to directly say it.

Their actions/changes speak just as loud as words.



Like the time they tried to spread out the mission runners and instead forced mission runners to be more compacted away from the borders of low-sec.


Ok, so it's just in your head

Cool. I kinda guessed that, tbh.


.

Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#117 - 2012-03-26 13:54:29 UTC
Risk/reward balancing.

If you want more, then risk more.
Ben Arwhal
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2012-03-26 13:58:58 UTC
Noob opinion incoming!

I am a mining/manufacturing/mission-running noobbear, but:

I don't really see a problem with making highsec either: a) a more risky place to live or b) a less profitable place to live.

From the sounds of it, removing POS from highsec would be a good start.

Also, either dropping rat bounties in highsec (which has been suggested), or only have missions up to level 2-3 available in highsec, with everything else in lowsec.

Not to mention adjusting highsec incursions, "nerfing" them if you will, to encourage more people to head out to low/nullsec for those incursions.

I don't know that much can/should be changed about highsec mining or NPC-station production, though increasing market taxes paid might encourage some population shifting as well!

Ultimately, highsec is too safe and makes it too easy to make a lot of money.

Of course, I'm of the unusual and unpopular opinion that "highsec" should be removed from Eve entirely, so perhaps my ideas aren't worth much merit >_>
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#119 - 2012-03-26 14:03:42 UTC
I don't have any problems with these changes and I live in highsec. I wonder why that is.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#120 - 2012-03-26 14:45:04 UTC
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:

I left nullsec..

I left it because it is a load of dog crap that rewards good ole boys and large alliances over small dedicated ones. Where asking for invasive Full API keys is now normal due to absurdly broken corp and POS mechanics. Where new players get shunned as potential spies due to said mechanics. Where FCs feel free to call kitchen sink CTAs and say "Don't like mah CTA? GTFO of Corp or log off" Where corps feel free to say "Don't report blue bots" Where major RMT operations run. Where lazy ass renters gather and never bother to read on the future of EVE much less care

And to be frank CCP It looks like you have barely just stated on this mountain of crap. Corp and POS fixes in 2013? They should have been planned with Inferno instead of shiny new (and will be abused) wardec system. Nothing about AFK cloaking?

I am not going back to nullsec until it is fixed. And yes that means I will sooner quit EVE after hisec sledgehammer nerfs hit than go back to null not having fun. The threat of members going back to hisec content is about the only thing keeping member abuse in check and once that is gone I will have better things to do than support a broken game by that point.

Beautifully said. Null sec jerks who want to scam us , make it clear we are not welcome in their corps, suspects everyone in the game is a spy, etc, etc.
Why would anyone want to do deal with that to have "fun" in Null?