These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Armored PvP 2012
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Denuo Secus
#1 - 2012-03-21 00:02:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Denuo Secus
Hi,

a while ago the answer to the question "armor or shield in solo/small gang PvP?" very often was armor. The main argument for this was utility of med slots for tackle, sebo, cap booster...

Meanwhile the advice is different. Shield, agility and speed seems way to go. I guess this is because the game has changed a bit. Blobs are more common. The ability to GTFO is essential. I don't fit a web since I don't want to go into web range anyway. I want to finish my opponent fast, with superior damage, tracking and range of shield tanked turret ships.

My question: what do you think are good reasons to choose armor today? Why should a small gang use armor tanks - especially with light logistic support available.

My own thoughs:

- Armor seems nice to defend a position or to drive off an enemy. In combination with good damage projection (Amarr) it's very hard to kite such a gang. But I have problems to see benefits in armor tanking when it comes to more aggressive and offensive PvP. So actually chasing and catching targets which don't want to fight.

- Still: utility to fit ewar as force multiplier.

- Frigs are short of slots. If I fit armor I have essential med slots free for cap booster, dual prop, ...

- Capitals have a lot of slots. Splitting low slots for gank and tank does not hurt. More important, med slots are free for sebo, web, drone modules, ...

This is more a PvP tactics question rather than a pure fitting consideration. When fitting armor I loose the ability to dictate range. What do I get in exchange?
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-21 05:57:04 UTC
Speaking from my very limited field of experience, armor ships work well on gates in FW plexes, because you catch stuff as it lands. You don't need a lot of mobility for that, and the extra buffer helps in web + scram range.

Otherwise, I think you may have summed it up pretty well. ;)

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#3 - 2012-03-21 06:51:46 UTC
Armor Ships are not neccesarily slower then Shield Ships. If you Buffer tank it, sure it will be sluggish. But there are still options like using an active tank with active hardeners and using one of those Meds you saved on a cap booster. This also has the advantage, that these moduls can be overheated. If you are using for example a Gallente T2 Frig, all you need as resistances is an EM Hardener and an Explo Hardener. Neuts are a problem then of course, so better plan that into your fit.
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#4 - 2012-03-21 11:58:55 UTC
My blunt and honest opinion, armor for small gang/solo may as well be deleted because its useless in every way compared to the shield fits.

Why?

Most armor ships are in scram range or slow, they dedicate to the fight and cant escape unless on a gate and deaggro or ECM drones.

So as soon as you engage something and scram it, you light up on intel channel and in come the 10 drakes and 10 canes all with ECM drones and a falcon.

See unless your flying around a 100mn legion or a ubertanked Hyperion with links and expensive implants, you will go into most fights and leave in your pod. Dont let all these PvP videos of people flying 100mn armor t3's and duel rep hyperions fool you, they are flying with billions in implants, several gang link t3's and scouts.

Shield however, mostly kite with a point and use speed to keep out of scram range of anything. So as soon as you see things dont go your way just plan your escape.

Until the drake gets nerfed and minmatar ships get balanced and ecm drones nerfed and falcons fixed. Shield will always be better for any form of solo/small gang nullsec work.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#5 - 2012-03-21 13:19:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
With the advent of the welpfleet, it really doesn't matter whether your fleet uses armor or shield, IMO. The highest EHP ships in the game are armored, but you can't expect to create fleets comprised solely of Damnations, now can you? Even a 40-man enemy fleet can one-volley your 90+k EHP battleship, thanks to tier-3 BC's.

For small gangs fighting small gangs it's different. Shield setups mean more damage (usually), while armor setups mean more tank. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but it will affect your decisions on which targets to engage. For the smaller gangs, all is well tbh.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-03-21 22:14:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
I dissargee tbh.
In an even fight with similar numbers, I'd rather be in armour with logi every time, especially with low numbers.
That said, I fly in WHs where fights tend to be close up and have little chance to escalate into blobbing.
you can't really kite a propper WH gang since they should have enough dual long range web lokis to ruin your day.

The issue in kspace is that pretty much every fight of any size is going to escalate into blobbing from one, or more likely both, sides in which case what youre in tends to come down to who can hit from further out to avoid taking damage while still dealing it.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-03-21 22:33:28 UTC
Denuo Secus wrote:
Hi,


My question: what do you think are good reasons to choose armor today? Why should a small gang use armor tanks - especially with light logistic support available.

My own thoughs:

- Armor seems nice to defend a position or to drive off an enemy. In combination with good damage projection (Amarr) it's very hard to kite such a gang. But I have problems to see benefits in armor tanking when it comes to more aggressive and offensive PvP. So actually chasing and catching targets which don't want to fight.

- Still: utility to fit ewar as force multiplier.

- Frigs are short of slots. If I fit armor I have essential med slots free for cap booster, dual prop, ...

- Capitals have a lot of slots. Splitting low slots for gank and tank does not hurt. More important, med slots are free for sebo, web, drone modules, ...

This is more a PvP tactics question rather than a pure fitting consideration. When fitting armor I loose the ability to dictate range. What do I get in exchange?


With Armor you are probably going to wind up with more EHP than the other guys. This makes an armor fleet very deadly for either defending or attacking head on.

EWAR has the potential for many lulz. With tracking disrupters your going to catch a lot of people off guard and pretty much make it impossible for battleships and certain battlecruisers to do any DPS your logi can't handle.

Range is irrelevant in the case of Amarr. Remember, they can insta-swap ammo. Gallente would be even more suited for this but Drones don't live up to turrets and missiles right now.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Annie Anomie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-03-21 22:37:24 UTC
I see very good PVPers successfully running armour all the time.

Vs. shield it offers them significantly more tank, lots of ewar etc.etc.
Silas Shaw
Coffee Hub
#9 - 2012-03-24 16:12:31 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SobBykOcLLI&feature=plcp&context=C449a288VDvjVQa1PpcFPjaLh5ktVlJnwkTRJLPg86g9SgV5TdPPs%3D

starting at about 5:45. Its kil2 in a nano-HAM drake, talking about the strength of a (his words) traditional cane vs a shield cane.
sten mattson
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#10 - 2012-03-26 04:22:24 UTC
lets not forget that armour lets you have less of a sig radius as well
so that AB AFs can do a lot of dmg while not recieving a lot

i swear , if you keep your transversal above 700m/s with an AB on , and an armor tank , none of the tier 3 BC will hit you . ever

your only fear will be webs and neuts

IMMA FIRING MA LAZAR!!!