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CSM: Make the process to replace canditates more democratical

First post
Author
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-03-30 13:41:16 UTC
So, After all this mess, the end result is that a huge mass will remain with their voices unheard in the next council.

Even if CCP wont adimit that, this rendered the Council totally not representative of the playerbase.

And that will happen just because theres no logic system in place to replace someone that opt out his position.

Taking the next in line is not the best method. And, leaving the position unattended like CCP wants is even worse.


In real life elections, usually a candidate has a vice, a seccond in line that supports his views and standings, and is able to carry on his work in case the worst happens.


The proposal I put forward tot he CSM is simple:


Let from now on the candidates to CSM appoint a vice. Should anything happen, this vice would be able to step forward, keeping the representative system intact and thus not disregarding the will of the voters who chosed one candidate over other.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#2 - 2012-03-30 21:15:28 UTC
The existing process is democratic, using first-over-the-line, in order of votes. Just because your alliance bloc-voted for a candidate who self-destructed doesn't make the process non-representative. You as a bloc could nominate two or three candidates and vote them in, thus you would not have all of your representation eggs in one candidate basket.

Dustie Pyryt
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-31 01:23:53 UTC
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...
Jack Parr
Kzinti Hegemony
#4 - 2012-03-31 02:43:15 UTC
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...


Can CCP still allow them forum access. I would be lost without their tears.

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average goon."      - The Mittani

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#5 - 2012-03-31 10:12:44 UTC
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game.


Not our game, just your game. They don't want to ruin EVE, they just want to ruin your day.

Just one example of how understanding doesn't necessarily lead to friendship ;)
Uronksur Suth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-04-01 04:49:10 UTC
Welsige wrote:
So, After all this mess, the end result is that a huge mass will remain with their voices unheard in the next council.

Even if CCP wont adimit that, this rendered the Council totally not representative of the playerbase.

And that will happen just because theres no logic system in place to replace someone that opt out his position.

Taking the next in line is not the best method. And, leaving the position unattended like CCP wants is even worse.


In real life elections, usually a candidate has a vice, a seccond in line that supports his views and standings, and is able to carry on his work in case the worst happens.


The proposal I put forward tot he CSM is simple:


Let from now on the candidates to CSM appoint a vice. Should anything happen, this vice would be able to step forward, keeping the representative system intact and thus not disregarding the will of the voters who chosed one candidate over other.



No. See post #2 by Mara Rinn. Just because your alliance's candidate self-destructed and you don't get to put another Goon in his place doesn't mean it wasn't democratic.
HELIC0N ONE
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-01 09:43:50 UTC
kick Amokdot
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#8 - 2012-04-01 15:32:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzy Warstl
The person who will be replacing The Mittani on CSM 7 is someone that other players voted for who would otherwise not have had a voice on CSM.

It might not be fair, but it is certainly democratic.

Seems to me I've heard a certain group wax eloquent over the inherent unfairness of EvE before. I wonder who that was?

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

mxzf
Shovel Bros
#9 - 2012-04-01 16:48:24 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
The person who will be replacing The Mittani on CSM 7 is someone that other players voted for who would otherwise not have had a voice on CSM.

It might not be fair, but it is certainly democratic.

Seems to me I've heard a certain group wax eloquent over the inherent unfairness of EvE before. I wonder who that was?


Are you referring to the random blog post on April 1st by some random player claiming that someone who barely made it into the top-7 of the CSM is going to be chairing the CSM? Ha.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#10 - 2012-04-01 21:35:40 UTC
No, I must have missed that one.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
#11 - 2012-04-02 01:35:48 UTC
Well since Two Step was Second after Mittani, Why not make him the chairman since the votes show him to be favored over the other candidates.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#12 - 2012-04-02 15:13:36 UTC
I'm confused. Did the leap year throw you off? You missed April 1 by a wide margin.

Let's face it: the Goons would oppose any idea resembling this had their glorious leader not been the one to fall on his face. Do yourselves a favor and quit giving everyone so much to gloat about. Shut up, have your little Burn Jita party, and carry on.

Adapt or die, Goons.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.

Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2012-04-02 19:36:28 UTC
Uronksur Suth wrote:
Welsige wrote:
So, After all this mess, the end result is that a huge mass will remain with their voices unheard in the next council.

Even if CCP wont adimit that, this rendered the Council totally not representative of the playerbase.

And that will happen just because theres no logic system in place to replace someone that opt out his position.

Taking the next in line is not the best method. And, leaving the position unattended like CCP wants is even worse.


In real life elections, usually a candidate has a vice, a seccond in line that supports his views and standings, and is able to carry on his work in case the worst happens.


The proposal I put forward tot he CSM is simple:


Let from now on the candidates to CSM appoint a vice. Should anything happen, this vice would be able to step forward, keeping the representative system intact and thus not disregarding the will of the voters who chosed one candidate over other.



No. See post #2 by Mara Rinn. Just because your alliance's candidate self-destructed and you don't get to put another Goon in his place doesn't mean it wasn't democratic.


It isnt democratic at all. Might be simpler and >> no effort << to CCP. But isnt democratic as it dosent try to maintain the representability of the interests of the voters.

In democracies, should a president step out, his vice would come in. Should the vice die, some other representative like a president of the senate of something would step forward. Not the underdog.

Theres no sense in the next, less voted candidate stepping in.

And see, i am not advocating that someone should replace Mittens or a revote, THIS SUGESTION is in regard to the future ellections and for the betterment of the process.

Is this hate-group so blind by hate that they cant have a civil discussion without bringing the torches and the forks? Gee.

Though i get the "eggs in a basket" popular simple-minded analogy, it has no bearing in a democratic process. Its like saying let Democrats/Republicans run with 4 candidates..... makes no sense.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]

Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-02 19:39:09 UTC
Parsee789 wrote:
Well since Two Step was Second after Mittani, Why not make him the chairman since the votes show him to be favored over the other candidates.


In the current state of affairs, that seems logical. Any word on it?

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]

Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2012-04-02 19:40:59 UTC
HELIC0N ONE wrote:
kick Amokdot


Not in the face!

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]

Isabella300
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-04-03 15:44:56 UTC
Welsige wrote:
Uronksur Suth wrote:
Welsige wrote:
So, After all this mess, the end result is that a huge mass will remain with their voices unheard in the next council.

Even if CCP wont adimit that, this rendered the Council totally not representative of the playerbase.

And that will happen just because theres no logic system in place to replace someone that opt out his position.

Taking the next in line is not the best method. And, leaving the position unattended like CCP wants is even worse.


In real life elections, usually a candidate has a vice, a seccond in line that supports his views and standings, and is able to carry on his work in case the worst happens.


The proposal I put forward tot he CSM is simple:


Let from now on the candidates to CSM appoint a vice. Should anything happen, this vice would be able to step forward, keeping the representative system intact and thus not disregarding the will of the voters who chosed one candidate over other.



No. See post #2 by Mara Rinn. Just because your alliance's candidate self-destructed and you don't get to put another Goon in his place doesn't mean it wasn't democratic.


It isnt democratic at all. Might be simpler and >> no effort << to CCP. But isnt democratic as it dosent try to maintain the representability of the interests of the voters.

In democracies, should a president step out, his vice would come in. Should the vice die, some other representative like a president of the senate of something would step forward. Not the underdog.

Theres no sense in the next, less voted candidate stepping in.

And see, i am not advocating that someone should replace Mittens or a revote, THIS SUGESTION is in regard to the future ellections and for the betterment of the process.

Is this hate-group so blind by hate that they cant have a civil discussion without bringing the torches and the forks? Gee.

Though i get the "eggs in a basket" popular simple-minded analogy, it has no bearing in a democratic process. Its like saying let Democrats/Republicans run with 4 candidates..... makes no sense.

Delilah Wild
Concordokken Holdings
#17 - 2012-04-04 12:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Delilah Wild
I must admit that I chuckled reading Welsige bemoaning the absence of a fair and civil discussion. How ironic....

In any case, The Mittani's lead in votes and former position of chair was hardly in the best interests or tradition of democracy.

The CSM uses at-large voting, one of the more regressive forms of representation. Electing at-large representatives magnifies the power of minority bloc voting (read Goons). While meeting a low bar of democracy (voting), it fails more rigourous tests of fairness and substantive representation. It is for this reason that real world voting is geographically bounded by districts or ridings.

If Welsige is really concerned about improving the CSM, he should turn his attention to replacing at-large voting with a more representative system.

Cheers

Founder, Coalition of Anti-Pirates

Temmu Guerra
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-04-04 20:23:43 UTC
To use a quote you goons love to use.... "HTFU"
Frying Doom
#19 - 2012-04-05 10:14:17 UTC
You forgot
~Deal with it~

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#20 - 2012-04-05 10:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
Dustie Pyryt wrote:
I think CCP should ban all Goon players since they have publicly declared that they want to destroy our game. Why does CCP put up with the crap. It seems easy enough to track down and ban all players with Goon in there alliance/corp associations...


This kind of attitude leads to bad, bad things. Goons have always said they want to ruin "your" game not "the" game and they have held true to that the entire time I've been playing, just because you don't like it is no reason to call for a cull of the playerbase.

Edit: By the way I'm fairly sure there is no such word as "democratical".

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

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