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Fanfest: Factional Warfare

First post First post
Author
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
The Mockers AO
#1 - 2012-03-23 13:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicia Tuoro

    Problems Considered:
  • Lack of Consequences. There are consequences for taking of a system.
  • Doesn't feel like being in a war.
  • Game play in general is lacking e.g. NPCs are rubbish. (permajamming from Caldari NPCs)
  • Combat isn't rewarding. The rewards coming from farming missions and avoiding PVP.
  • Visibility. You don't know when people takes systems/missions. Need to use the Star Map.
  • The Welcome page doesn't help you. What am I supposed to do?
  • PVP kills need to be more rewarding
  • Ranks should have more purpose. More than cosmetic

  • Iteration
  • ALL A WORK IN PROGRESS. DON'T PANIC
  • Want to make it more consistent with null sec territory
  • but want to make it separate from 0.0 politics
  • Remove "occupancy", and affect sovereignty instead. Larger consequence of taking systems.
  • Shoot a re-enforceable infrastructure hub, rather than a control bunker. Making people used to 0.0.

  • Consequences
  • Can't dock in enemy stations.
  • Allow upgrades of systems you own using loyalty points. Put into the hub, communal pool from all faction.
  • Want to motivate corporations to donate through patronage system.
  • reward e.g: 10% bonus to LP gains for next week.
  • Upgrade examples: Reduce costs of medical clones in upgraded systems (50% discount?)
  • Reduce market taxes.
  • Add NPCs to patrol gates.
  • Fully upgraded system could have a cyno jammer. Timers for on and off. Under heavy debate though around control.
  • New screens to show LP upgrade progress in systems

  • Datacore Changes
  • Want to make datacores more expensive. add cash, or increase RP cost.
  • Want to add datacores to LP stores for factional warfare

  • War Zone Control
  • The more you own, control, and upgrades you have, the more reductions you'll have in the LP store.
  • New screen showing progress of total rewards/discounts in LP store. Showing how many "points" you need to get to next reward levels.

  • Complex Changes
  • we want to give you LP from taking a complex, but don't want to give them randomly. The LP will come from the losing systems LP pool, therefore losing upgrades invested in the system
  • Improvements to NPCs. Could be more like incursion npcs? Make them more PVP like.
  • Want to remove speed tanking of NPCs

  • EVE-Dust Link
  • Considering making it possible to contract DUST mercs to make IHUBs vulnerable instead of killing complexes.
  • Balancing looking difficult though

  • PVP Kills
  • Reward should be based on what is destroyed. LP proportional to modules/fittings and total value.
  • Variable based on rank of militia member.

  • Factional Warfare Page
  • Revamp ing the page
  • Leaderboards within the factions. LP gains, kill/death ratio, ranks

  • Questions:
  • how do you prevent spies/small corps throwing up cyno jammers. Who can activate it?
  • How far do we go with "leadership" in fw? You didn't join to get this sort of politics with it.
  • What happens to ships that are currently docked when a system is taken.
  • Considering Glory Hunting. Swapping to "winning" militia
  • Who determines where LP is applied? It's a communal pool. People just donate there they want to.
  • Consider diminishing returns on LP

Senior Representative Light Speed Interactive http://www.lightspeedinteractive.net

Terminal Insanity
Mosquito Squadron
The-Culture
#2 - 2012-03-23 13:45:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Terminal Insanity
the FW changes look really awesome. I love the idea that factions will be able to gain sov for their empires. I've posted a couple threads asking for exactly this =D I hope they expand it to highsec too =)

I don't really like the move to ihubs though. I like the diversity of targets. (POCO's vs POS for example) I hope they work a slightly different mechanic into the FW system then straight up ihubs

"War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP

Damar Rocarion
SQUIDS.
#3 - 2012-03-23 13:51:29 UTC
Official CCP position: We arz looking into that or will look into that.

They have not thought about any meta-gaming aspects possible.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#4 - 2012-03-23 13:52:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tobiaz
The devs need to look at the mechanics used in Incursions. Great opportunities there on how to fight for control (incursionbar working up to MOM), how to organize places to set battlegrounds (like how shiny fleets compete at Vanguards), how to handout LP (no payout for blobbing), and how to track the status of contested systems (journal).

Incursions have proven to be an exceptional tool to achieve a mutual in-goal by crowdsourcing.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!

Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2012-03-23 13:53:25 UTC
it seemed very very very vague to me with way to many holes in it at the moment. while i appreciate them throwing out ideas out these seemed really poorly thought out tbh.

ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
EVEolution.
#6 - 2012-03-23 13:59:09 UTC
looking foward to alot of these changes.

and hopefully there will be more wider reaching reprecussions for the "unofficial" war in high sec... tbh id like FW to spill into the high sec systems if all the low sec systems of a particuelr faction have been lost.
Muad 'dib
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-23 14:02:18 UTC
Not docking in enemy system stations is a huge mistake. the rest looks pretty fun

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#8 - 2012-03-23 14:03:56 UTC
Heh, love the way he kept saying that they would like to find a system that works before expanding on it .. three years after the fact .. hahahahaha. /facedesk.

They are polishing the turd like crazy, that's for sure .. whether it is enough remains to be seen. Still trying to "see" what some of the things would mean, but sounds like there are loads of facets they don't seem to be aware of or choose to ignore. Will be good when/if they do a series of threads in F&I/TestServer forum to debate the various things mentioned in that brainfart presentation.

PS: Good to hear/see that the madness spewing from my (Hirana/Veshta Yoshida) twisted mind stick with the readers, heard several items/comments that I believe originates from my 3 years lobbying effort \o/
Zagdul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-03-23 14:08:23 UTC
Hi from nullsec.

Welcome to blob warfare my low sec friends.


Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Kethry Avenger
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#10 - 2012-03-23 14:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Kethry Avenger
In general I like the direction this is going. Smile

I like not being able to dock in opposing faction space. This should create more of a front-line in the battle. While still allowing motivated corps/alliances the chance to go behind the line, setup POSes and create pockets behind enemy lines

Cyno-jammers. Wow. There are so many ways to grief inherent in that. I would say if it is implemented it should be done for the Highest LP cost and should be very temporary. Say no more than 30 minutes


Need to go collect all my Data-Cores from all my characters before these changes happen

Broader consequences should absolutely operate on a system of diminishing returns. So people just don't switch sides to max out rewards

And if there is an upgrade to have some NPC help on stations and gates, these should become progressively more powerful as the number of systems in your control become less. As the number of systems in your side become compressed you get more help from the NPCs. This could be just the ones that you get through upgrades or it could also be the ones in plexes and missions

Missions should never happen in systems in your control.

I think LP rewards should be balanced, so that you get the most for PvP, 2nd for attacking complexes, 3rd for missions. To balance the LP for PvP dynamically tie it to the market value of average converted LP

I think ranks could provide discounts for FW LP stores. They should be tied only to PvP and attacking complexes, not farming missions.

Edit: Looking forward to Devblog and Test server. Also is this supposed to start this summer?
Zagdul
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2012-03-23 14:24:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
Kethry Avenger wrote:
In general I like the direction this is going. Smile

Cyno-jammers. Wow. There are so many ways to grief inherent in that. I would say if it is implemented it should be done for the Highest LP cost and should be very temporary. Say no more than 30 minutes


You think for a second that entities like PL, who don't hold sov, won't have an influence on control of low-sec jammers.

ahahhahahah,

Best question was "will we be able to keep PL out?" no, because PL holds too much interest in low sec logistics chains and null sec entities hold too much reliance on empire. Sorry, but outside of us free-porting our null sec stations and turning them into market hubs, we rely on the space outside of null to allow you guys to control the logistics through said space.


Again,

Welcome to blob warfare.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#12 - 2012-03-23 14:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
I have to ask the Devs;

Do you want FW to be for people who want skirmishes, carebears who might want to try their hands on cheap PvP – or do you want FW to be for people who actually want to fight sov wars, but don't want to deal with the 0.0 version of it?

Some of the FW changes sound really cool, but when you start talking about shutting the other Faction out of stations if you flip SOV; yes, it sounds logical but 0.0 SOV warfare is what it is today for a reason.

When you start talking about this, the question of timers comes up. Taking peoples access away kinda requires timers – station flipping in 0.0 showed the Devs the need for such a mechanic to make it "fair" and "non-ninja".

That's just 1 mechanic, this and the other mechanics didn't just appear out of nowhere. They are the Devs design responses to issues that have appeared over the years – until they are changed, they will be the same design responses to the same issues should they appear in FW.

Nothing is final, but Devs, remember that 0.0 has evolved over years into what it is today. Don't start introducing 0.0 mechanics in FW and expect it to not evolve into exactly the same thing in the end.

Not saying it is right or wrong for FW to go that way – but please fix what people consider broken about 0.0 SOV warfare before you start introducing the same mechanics in a different system.
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2012-03-23 14:32:03 UTC
I gathered a lot of ::vision::-esque things from the FW presentation and while it all sounds good... It's all speculation and hype until we see some numbers. And FW cyno jammers? I foresee many many lulz and exploits coming of this.
Deen Wispa
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
#14 - 2012-03-23 14:33:11 UTC
Muad 'dib wrote:
Not docking in enemy system stations is a huge mistake.


this.

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
#15 - 2012-03-23 14:45:59 UTC
Completely disagree. No docking is an excellent and much needed mechanic.

Anyone complaining about their ships being 'locked away' has no ground to stand on tbh. You dont have to base on the front line, you can still contract 'locked out' ships etc for sale, use an alt to pick them up or just use a staging POS with corp hangars/ship arrays etc.

Station games play way too much a part in lowsec pvp. Hopefully this will pull some risk adverse pvpers off stations. It just makes more sense too. For example someone from Caldari militia undocking from an FDU station in Gallente occupancy space slaughtering members of the FDU then waiting out a timer to redock without any repercussions... I mean come on.

Would appreciate a full list of what other features the presentation covered as I missed half. Cheers.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#16 - 2012-03-23 14:57:21 UTC
OP thanks for the post covering the talk. I didn't hear it and your post was helpful.

It seems to me that faction war plexing is more fun that it has ever been - and these changes might very well screw it up.

I suppose we could hit diagoras up for some statistics on how much more plexing has happened since they changed the downtime spawn mechanic. It would be great if we could also track how many pvp fights we are getting per plex. I would say I am getting about 1 decent fight every 20-30 minutes.

I recomend that anyone who is complaining about fw go to a system that has a significant enemy presence and open a plex. You are unlikely to find faster and better quality pvp anywhere in eve.

However its still not perfect. Just yesterday I had to warp off from a fight due to the npcs working down my tank before the wt even entered the plex. If ccp is out to make npcs an even a bigger factor they are going in the wrong direction. Please ccp let the players fight for occupancy. Your sleeper ai is very nice, but let this war be based on pvp not pve. People can fight the incursion war if they want to fight the sleeper ai.

CCP still has this idea that faction war players really want to go to null sec to be bossed around by the folks we saw on the alliance panel. When will they ever get a clue, and stop talking about pushing sov blob mechanics into faction war? Isn't there enough of the game dedicated to that crap? Why **** away the last bastion of small gang pvp?

I hope Hans was elected.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
It Burns When I'm PvPing
#17 - 2012-03-23 15:04:22 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Muad 'dib wrote:
Not docking in enemy system stations is a huge mistake.


this.



Do they mean you can't dock in *any* stations in the enemy system or just the faction war corp stations in particular (ie 24th etc).

If they mean *any* station then this is a stupid change that will ruin the attraction of low sec pvp. And in 2009 gallente would not have been able to dock anywhwere in the war zone. Surely they are not that dumb. They must have meant only the fw specific stations.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#18 - 2012-03-23 15:05:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Ciar Meara
Terminal Insanity wrote:
the FW changes look really awesome. I love the idea that factions will be able to gain sov for their empires. I've posted a couple threads asking for exactly this =D I hope they expand it to highsec too =)

I don't really like the move to ihubs though. I like the diversity of targets. (POCO's vs POS for example) I hope they work a slightly different mechanic into the FW system then straight up ihubs



I like the changes also, the Ihubs are perhaps not the perfect "placeholder" of the bunker, but if they use it the amarrians should be golden.

I also love the fact they'll institue actual changes in the maps, all in all, nice presentations and thought process. The idea of actually upgrading your space should be amazing. I hope those changes would be visible on the Ihubs themselves.

Could be actually really nice from minmatar "ducktape" improvements and girders opposite and amarrian ihubs full of golden towers.

- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
Shadow Cartel
#19 - 2012-03-23 15:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
I'll be keeping an eye on all the Faction Warfare changes as they are revealed, no doubt many of the fans that are there right now have more details to share than were listed in the OP here. I'll wait a day or so before really posting anything substantial, just so I can soak it all in and get the lay of the land and have a chance to speak with the community.

If you have pressing concerns about the changes here, email me right away, and I'll start collecting all the notes I receive on the subject. If you're THERE at fanfest right now and have more details to share than are listed here, send me anything you have. I'm very limited being stateside, all I have at the moment are some vague ideas and few things I heard over twitter, so by all means, send me your thoughts!

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Deen Wispa
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
#20 - 2012-03-23 16:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Deen Wispa
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Completely disagree. No docking is an excellent and much needed mechanic.


Anyone complaining about their ships being 'locked away' has no ground to stand on tbh. You dont have to base on the front line, you can still contract 'locked out' ships etc for sale, use an alt to pick them up or just use a staging POS with corp hangars/ship arrays etc.



Apparently, RL isn't a solid ground to stand on? Let me offer a counter for people to chew on;

I go away for a few days. Or a week or two. All of a sudden the station that was in Gallente sov is now Caldari. How do I 'unlock' my ship? Now you're saying I have to train an alt to Gallente BCs or T2 HACS just so it can pick up my locked ship? Or who in the world is gonna buy a ship that is specifically rigged and fitted for certain combat situations?

Or that I or my corp now has to get into POS management just to avoid this lockout situation? Not every corp wants to buy a POS, learn POS management, and maintain the POS just so they can avoid this situation.

I totally agree that station games is horrible and we should do what is needed to deter this. Granted, this is all in the incubation stage and the 'no docking' mechanic is only suggested. But I've seen alot of people advocate for a no docking mechanic and haven't seen alot of people try to counter it. I'm offering a counter in the hopes of finding a solution that offers what we're all looking for out of FW; better immersion and more pew.

Reading b/w the lines, it seems that CCP is only in the incubation stage of iterating on FW. I was hoping they had more solid plans at this point for Inferno

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .

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