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Planetary Interaction 2.0 - (Cities, tax, terraforming and beyond)

First post
Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1 - 2011-09-08 19:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
The updated and more detailed Assembly hall version of this topic is found here.

[Part 1 of 14]

Please note, this threadnought is about 15 posts long.

TL:DR version
• PI becomes a Sim City styled mini game

• Add 3 new types of PI

• Civilian PI (Caesar, imperium Galactica games), focus on building civilian habitat networks, providing services, increase quality of life of settlement, collect taxes, increase population growth rate, consumes (oxygen(on non oxygen planet types) water, livestock, gen livestock, dancers, wine, planetary vehicles, janitors) to sustain operations. Will not focus on resources, but rather operational ranges of buildings which denote service delivery to the segment population. More overlapping, lower taxes, better service delivery, increases birth/migration rate, thus increasing the population as a resource for taxes or conversion. Better services improves standard of living and increases city development index, less overlapping = poor delivery, higher taxes & poor delivery decreases standard of living, increases death rate/migration rate and decreases development index. Can produce ship crews via academies by converting population of city. Enable industrial/Civilian PI to generate military units/dancers from population for consumption

• Military PI, focus on building defenses for existing PI networks, includes planetary shields and planetary guns to protect PI segments inside shield radius and attack capitals in orbit with planetary aggression, consumes (soldiers, militia, small arms, isk, stront) to sustain operations.

Social PI = Rent-able player slots on planets for buildings.

• Introduction of ship crews creation mechanism

• Introduction of planetary aggression timers for dreadnoughts, Titans and supporting carriers in planetary orbit, allows dreadnoughts & Titans to aggress PI structures from orbit.

• Introduction of city development index for planets. Info tab, population count, birth/death rates, current tax base, adjustable tax levels, total value of planetary economy, list of cities/PI networks on planet + who owns them. Also introduces new planetary attributes, population growth rate, death rate, fuel requirements for different PI segment types on different planet types etc.

• Introduction of PI cities as an alliance/fleet type entity for planets. Combines multiple PI segments into one segment that gives bonuses to other segment types. Industrial PI produces commodities, creates employment for planetary population. Civilian PI increases planetary population, provides places for population to reside (Implies social areas for incarna), generates isk in form of tax, gives industrial PI productivity bonus depending on city development index, consumes PI based commodities. Military PI produces ship crews which grant additional ship bonuses, similar to rigs/implants, provides protection for PI from orbital attacks from Eve players, consumes PI based commodities

• Changing cities into solid entities such as stations/offices, displayed on info tabs of various stakeholder corporations/alliances that can be attacked, influenced or lost. Subsequently, each “city” will generate lights on the planet’s graphics. 1 city, 1 set of city graphics. 2 cities, 2 sources etc.

• Add city/Planetary tabs to corporation/alliance information tabs, list segments/cities and total isk value of each city.

• Enable Eve players to lose control of / destroy or cut off cities/individual PI segments from owners with capital orbital bombarding, requires Dust side recapture.

• Planetary attribute overhaul

• Introduction of PI-Hubs + range of level related upgrades, similar to sovereignty system

• Introduction of planetside BPO research and ship/ship module manufacturing, will use mined ores/minerals, imported via customs to facilitate manufacturing as per existing POS mechanisms

• Introduction of Terraforming + a range of new skills for PI

Hence forth follows the suggestion in detail

1.0 ICC (Industrial Command Centers)
1.1 CCC (Civilian Command Centers)
1.2 MCC (Military Command Centers)
2.0 Planetary attribute Overhaul & additions
2.1 Planetary population growth/death rates
3.0 PI Cities + Capital Cities
3.1 City Development Index & PI-Hub upgrades
3.2 Connecting PI Networks to Cities (PI-Hubs)
3.3 Conquering/Destroying Cities
4.0 Terra-forming
4.1 Terra-forming chains (Type to type conversions)
5.0 City location penalties
6.0 Skills for PI 2.0

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#2 - 2011-09-08 19:14:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 2 of 14]

At present, the current PI system is industrially orientated; this is to say that it focuses on producing commodities via raw material extraction only. There is also a severe lack of teamwork with PI, since there is no form of interaction between planetary networks or between capsuleers and planetary networks beyond the owner.

This suggestion aims to bridge that gap by proposing sweeping changes and additions that include a larger range of Command Centres with different functions and goals, which will drastically change the current PI game and add eve like depth to the existing planetary interaction mechanism. This can be done by classifying the current Command Centres as Industrial Command Centres (ICC) and introducing 2 new classes, those of Civilian and Military Command Centres (CCC and MCC respectively). This proposal will also incorporate the ever popular and much debated ship crews’ suggestion available here: [url][/url], by providing a possible creation mechanism, using the existing setups for Industrial based PI, only utilizing Civilian PI. Next up, the introduction of additional planetary attributes that will give rise to planetary populations as a planetary resource (Which grant bonuses similar to fleet bonuses to the City networks) and that will need employment via the various network type buildings, which will receive bonuses from newly introduced Planetary Infrastructure hubs. The remainder of the population or the constant new arrivals being attracted to the city will ultimately have to be converted into misc commodities such as exotic dancers, janitors, military units or crew units for additional implant style bonuses for eve ships, in addition to grinding up the city development index.

In addition, this proposal also incorporates suggestions that could enable capsuleers to create “Cities” on planets, by combining existing PI segments into a planet side alliance of Command Centres that ties in with existing space sovereignty mechanics, by drawing inspiration from and indeed basing the city concept in part on an older game, Imperium Galactica 2. The introduction of a new City UI interface/menu where players can view the attributes of their cities, and enable city managers to change a number of settings, ranging from city tax rate, viewing the city economy status which will be an indication of the value of each city, change the city name/ownership/standings, manage the various network links the city consists of in a screen similar to a fittings tab, only about the planets and respective cities. This will change existing networks on planets into growing, living, breathing foci of attention that Dust can exploit later on, into personal passive income generators for civilian PI farmers who wished for an Eve element of civilization in their PI experience, into fleet bonuses for existing industrial oriented PI spammers that would see them gain 25% production bonuses, 25% more powergrid per network, 25% less powergrid requirements for ecu’s, 25% resource regeneration bonuses and so on and introduce anti-Dust & anti-Eve defensive mechanisms for the various settlements located on planet’s surface with the anticipation of planets one day obtaining sovereignty/occupancy mechanisms.

In addition, the concept of terra-forming planets from 1 type to another is included with a basic outline of how this mechanism will work for 0.0 based planets in addition to the skills required for such time and isk intensive operations.

Lastly, this suggestion also applies the concept of Orbital Bombardment using Dreads & Titans as explored in fanfest 2011 (Thereby expanding their existing application base from merely POS sieges and anti-capital warfare) to Planetary Interaction, along with planetary aggression timers (PATs) & Planetary Incursions to compliment the Dust mechanisms that we are currently aware/unaware of and the proposed military network planetary defences that will be available. It will be like shooting a POS, only you’ll be ganking planetary Carebears. Hopefully this proposal will lay the foundations to create a richer environment and experience for both Eve and Dust players with regards to planetary operations.

My hope is that this suggestion will do for PI, what Incarna will do for Eve.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#3 - 2011-09-08 19:17:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 3 of 14]

1.0 Industrial Command Centers (ICC)
Industrial PI will remain largely unaffected by this suggestion, with the exception of PI-Hub bonuses, the inclusion of an industrial development index similar to sovereignty mechanics, only measured in terms of # of commodities produced per day/week/month and the introduction of one or two new installation types that include manufacturing and researching slots for planets and ice mines for ice planets. These slots will enable planetside BPO researching/copying much in the same way as a POS with labs would, and planetside module/component manufacturing from blueprints as per existing POS/Outpost manufacturing mechanics. Finally, the introduction of planet based ice mining from ice planets, using newly introduced ice mines.

(Existing PI as deployed in Incursion 1.1/1.2)

Industrial PI Structures:
Industrial Command Center (add 500 employees attribute, no additional changes)

Basic facility (add 700 employees attribute, no additional changes)

Advanced facility (add 850 employees attribute, no additional changes)

Elite facility (add 1000 employees attribute, no additional changes)

Launch pads (add 1500 employees attribute, no additional changes)

Storage facilities (changed into corporate hangers)

Extractor hubs/Drills (add 500 employees attribute for ECUs, 50 employees per drill, no additional changes)

Links (add 20 employees attribute per level, no additional changes)

Factory (new -> 700 employees, 800 power grid, 500 CPU)
Factories are single slot production buildings (similar to POS based modules) that allow mined ores and blue prints (both of which need to be imported via the customs office and stored in a storage facility) to be used in the production of ships, modules or capital ship components. The speed of production is reduced significantly compared to POS based manufacturing, as to avoid making POS & outpost manufacturing redundant.

Ice Mine (new -> 700 employees, 800 power grid, 500 CPU)
Ice mines can only be placed on Ice planets. A combination between a processor and an ECU, the player selects a desired ice type from the list of 4 types (clear, blue, ? & ?), while also selecting a cycle time in accordance with his or her preference and routes the ice mine to a storage facility. The Ice Mine will produce 1 unit/block of ice every cycle for the duration of the cycle program. *Note, ice mines do not require careful placement, resources or scanning to be done prior to operations commencing. Space based mining fleets will mine significantly more ice in a shorter duration compared to this installation, as to avoid making ice belts redundant.

Research Institute (new -> 100 employees, 450 power grid, 900 CPU, 2500 isk daily operational cost) 2 slot lab, 0,5 modifier, 4 different types:

i) Amarr Research Institute – Invention bonus???
ii) Caldari Research Institute – Copy speed bonus
iii) Gallente Research Institute – Productivity bonus
iv) Minmatar Research Institute – ME bonus
* Research institutes will enable the manufacturing of datacores using existing PI mechanisms, i.e. Select the blueprint from the list and manufacture over time.

Corporate Hanger (500 employees, 900 power grid, 2100 CPU, 100 000m3 capacity)
Storage facilities have always been a 3rd boob. Nice to look at but not really functional in light of the superior storage and dual functionality of launch pads. A corp hanger with superior storage is the next logical buff for the neglected storage facility. The 100k m3 storage capacity will enable planetside module and even capital ship component manufacturing by storing imported mined ores on the planet’s surface, while at the same time requiring launch pads to import and export goods/materials. Due to limitations of customs office storage, no ships bigger than destroyers/cruisers can be built on the planet’s surface. Other players in your corp/alliance can be given access to this building and it's contents by the network owner.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#4 - 2011-09-08 19:20:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 4 of 14]

1.1 Civilian Command Centers (CCC)
The entire premise of Civilian PI will revolve around creating and supporting habitable zones on planets to enable the settlement of planetary populations and the installations of governments. Each planet type will have a unique population growth rate modifier in terms of new migrants/new births and a death rate. The provision of basic services via the various structures that will be discussed in the following paragraphs will help create richer habitable zones within an operational range around the Civilian Command Center and will be measured using a similar system to existing Industrial PI resources, with a similar grading system. The twist is that the population becomes the resource, thus with civilian PI you create resources versus Industrial PI where you deplete them. This mechanism will help lay the foundations for taxation, as a means of generating isk from the total number of settlers located on the network/city, at the expense of running on a fuel system, similar to a POS, whereby the civilian networks need to be supplied with commodities such as wine, food, water, vehicles, dancers, janitors etc in order to remain functional. Some of these commodities will be producible on civilian networks by converting the required number of settlers using the appropriate structures, such as dancers, janitors and alike.
The civilian planets will also introduce the platforms to allow the manufacturing of ship crews through Academies which can be placed on civilian network segments as one would place an industrial facility/processor. Academies work in much the same way as existing facilities do. The desired crew schematic (selectable from a long list of different types of crew and officers etc) is selected from the list of schematics and installed into the academy. Instead of using raw materials to produce the crews, the academy draws from the city’s population at a 1:1 ratio. Naturally, training does not come cheap or free, so a nominal fee will be charged depending on the quality/grade/type of crew being trained, to cover any and all training/educational costs. Smaller ships will use smaller crews, thus requiring smaller segments of the population to convert. Capital ships will require massive crews, and take up more population (and time and isk) to train.

Civilian PI Structures:
Civilian Command Center (Same attributes as ICC)

Links (no new attributes)

Housing complex (700/850/1000 power, 900/1050/1200 cpu, 5000/7500/10000 employees)
Housing for the city’s population. These complexes create a steady stream of isk income per day per building, similar to PI products per hour if sold, by providing the housing the population needs. The bigger a population can be supported/housed/employed in a city, the more isk is generated. Can be built in small, medium and large variants with varying fitting requirements for each.

Banks (700 power, 900 CPU, 800 Employees)
Replaces launch pad with NPC institution building, sends isk to player wallet, NPC bank takes a cut/NPC bank tax rate. No bank, no isk/tax. Banks types can be built from each race from the list of existing NPC banks or financial institutions. Each NPC bank should have its own unique rates and bonuses that effect population growth rate, employment or resilience via banking policies that favour entrepreneurial ventures, settlement, loans or military funding, which can be assigned to whatever races such policies would be most applicable to. *Note, the tax rate can only be set to values between 1 and 100. 1 denotes 1 isk per settler per day, 100 = 100 isk per settler per day.

Basic Service hubs (1200 power, 1000 CPU, 1000 employees) (Power, Food, Water)
Service hubs works similar to upcoming extractor hubs, which drills are connected to. The hub is a central building with an operational range which can spawn Power, Food production or water distribution facilities for housing complexes. The service hub power factor is different from the Command Centre power (CC power & CPU determines how many buildings can be built. The hubs power determines if the building is active or inactive) If each building does not have power provided by links, there can be no appliances, electricity etc, thus will not perform any function, generate isk or grant any bonuses to the owner of the CC or the rest of the city. If the basic hub substructures are not connected to the various housing complexes, then the services/benefits do not reach the citizens, in much the same way as PI commodities and raw ore cannot be transported between extractors and processors.
*note, the absence of Basic service hubs on any city will result in a constant loss of quality of life and result in the loss of tax revenue for that network/city.

Advanced Service hubs (2400 power, 2000 CPU, 1500 employees) (Markets, Medical, sanitation, Fire brigade, Policing, communications) Similar to Basic Service hubs, these hubs create more attractive living areas for civilians by providing vital services. Without these areas, citizens will grow weary of the planet owner and seek independence/revolt. So you must keep the civilian population happy. Prevents spamming of housing complexes and adds depth to Civilian Planetary setups. If the advanced hub substructures are not connected to the various housing complexes, then the services/benefits do not reach the citizens, in much the same way as PI commodities and raw ore cannot be transported between extractors and processors.
*Note, the presence of advanced hubs and services such as fire departments, policing, medical etc, will reduce the handicaps that result in the population decreasing in the event of a planetary siege.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#5 - 2011-09-08 19:22:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 5 of 14]

Advanced Service hubs continued:
Entertainment hubs (Gallente) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees)
Religous hubs (Amarr) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees)
Market/Stock Exchange hubs (Caldari) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees)
Cultural hubs (Minmatar) (2000 power, 1000 CPU, 2500 employees)
These buildings cater for the special needs of each race and thus increases the quality of life. Having these buildings increases the attractiveness of each planet to the various races and thus increases the steady population growth rate. The higher the population & the happier they are, the higher the modifier effecting receivable tax for the entire city (All connected PI networks) as reflected in the development index of the city/planet. Each hub, will add an extra 1% to the city’s population growth rate per downtime.

Academies (700 power, 900 CPU, 800 Employees)
Buildings that spawn ship crews via schematics, similar to production facilities in conventional Industrial PI, which can then be exported and sold on markets, or retained for personal use. Academies convert the planet’s population into ship crews at a cost, similar to military structures converting the population into soldiers, but that crew subtracts from the planet’s population, so new crews cannot be generated unless the previous crews are destroyed, sold or lost/stolen in the event that the planet does not have the population to create a new crew. Thus allowing each Civilian network segment to only produce a limited number of crews at any given time in accordance with the city’s population, which must be increased before new crews can be generated or replaced. There is no theoretical limit to the amount of ship crews which can be created, provided the City/Planet has the population to support them.

Academies also convert the city population into commodities such as janitors, dancers, scientists etc.
Corporate Hanger (See Industrial PI structures for details)

1.2 Military Command Centres (MCC)
PI will be made vulnerable to not only Dust attacks, but Capital Bombardments from orbit in the form of Dreadnoughts and Titans. Unless all planetary networks are covered with shields and have planetary gun/missile emplacements on site to defend the networks from attacks, using POS defense mechanics, they can be wiped out in the same amount of time it would take to destroy system infrastructure that is offline or just existing rf mode and result in killmails and economic impact. Planetary shields will work much like a POS shield and even run off Stront that can be stored within the shield generator, a place-able structure with a operational range and a small storage capacity for enough stront to last 18-24 hours. Every building that is within this shield generator’s operational range, will be protected by the planetary shield(s). Everything outside, will be vulnerable to attack. Unlike the POS mechanism however, planetary weapon platforms can be placed inside the shields and fire on orbiting/aggression/low standing targets.
Military PI structures in contrast to Industrial & Civilian PI networks and structures, create employment, but do not create isk. In fact, Planetary shields and gun emplacements cost the owner isk & fuel in order to stay operational per day (Which can be automatically subtracted from a chosen wallet/wallet division), similar to customs costs incurred when extracting or importing PI Commodities from planets. Military networks can however, manufacture military units at a cost, i.e militia, light infantry, soldiers etc which will become AI controlled entities on Dust maps while at the same time making the planet harder to conquer by increasing resilience through defensive structures such as shields and planetary guns. Militia and soldiers etc can be sold on the eve markets as they are now. These AI controlled military units will be the Dust side Rats.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#6 - 2011-09-08 19:23:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 6 of 14]

Military PI Structures:
Military Command Center (Same attributes as ICC/CCC)


Bunkers/Forts (700 power, 850 CPU, 1000 employees, 500 isk per hour operational cost)
Deploys # of NPC AI’s & related equipment on Dust maps/like AI controlled players in BF2142/ Eve NPC Rats to help defend planets/cities from attacking Dust players. Each with a bounty. More upgraded/difficult the NPC/AI, the higher the bounty. Will enable Dust side players to get into instant action by themselves or with 2 or 3 friends, if they do not have the #s to take the city/planet, they can at least rat until they run out of time, get bored, join a larger group. Enables Dust players to grind isk similar to mission runners/ratters and would open up new avenues of upgrading instead of buying. Do not create a system where the subscription from Dust players will be lost, can be achieved by really low/ nonexistent bounties on AI’s, i.e 1isk, 2 isk etc.

Planetary shield generator (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + fuel costs)
(protects city from orbital bombardments from Dreads, 18-24 hour reinforcement timer, similar to POS shields, could even be designed to use Stront like the existing POS shields do). However, consistent damage to the planetary shield will result in a decrease of the planetary population every hour as the population flees for their lives.

Planetary gun/missile emplacement (2500 power, 1250 CPU, 1000 Employees, 2000 isk per hour operational cost + ammo costs)
(Places guns/missiles on planet surface in City that can fire from under City shield or without shield, similar to the stargate/POS gun setup) Damages non friendly (can be set via standings) capital ships only in orbit around the planet, firing on neutral Capitals by default (That have Planetary aggression timers) at similar rates to the stargate/station guns, but should pack a bit more punch since they are firing on capital ships, so the damage should be so much that a single dread without logistics will be unable to tank the DPS and will have to warp out or risk being lost to planetary fire. Sub capital ships will not be shot at by planet side guns, since they will be too small to lock onto. Likewise, sub capitals and carriers will not be able to engage structures or segments. Any Carrier that is remote repping Dreadnoughts or Titans with PATs will also receive a planetary aggression timer.

Planetary entrenchment systems (Walls, gates, trenches, armories, vehicle factories)
Recruitment offices/Barracks (700 power, 800 CPU, 500 employees, 500 isk per hour operational cost + training costs)
(employs civilians as NPC soldiers/militia – schematics, creates militia, soldiers, mercs etc by converting the unemployed segments of the population in a city which can be deployed/routed to/at/via a Bunker/Fort) Similar to Ship crews creation mechanism. Each unit costs a small amount of isk to generate.

Star ports (550 power, 800 CPU, 700 employees, 1000 isk per hour operational cost + custom costs)
Star ports could be entry/exit points for social areas of Cities/Planets, where Eve players could land their ships in something similar to offline mode. Land the ship, get out of it, go through planetary customs and go exploring around the city/social areas provided. If you want to leave, get back into your ship, take off and head back to space. All ships present on the surface will be visible in the star port, but only ship owners or authorized personnel can board the respective ships. Players will not be prevented from boarding ships they do not own, but if you are not authorized, you’ll be flagged with a criminal timer and can be fired upon without mercy or concord intervention.
Corporate Hanger (See Industrial PI structures for details)

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7 - 2011-09-08 19:25:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 7 of 14]

2.0 Planetary overhaul
Each planet type in eve will have its own unique growth/death rate modifier(s), depending on the type and desirability/suitableness to human life or industrial value of each. Here is a preliminary overview of my proposed rates per type:

Planetary Death/Growth rate modifier revision(s) -> without bonuses (from PI-hubs or installations), taxes or other influencing quality of life factors, as divided into 3 zones of civilian suitability:

1) Positive growth rate type planets (More suitable for civilian populations):
Temperate: (+13% default rate)
16% population growth rate per downtime
3% death rate per down time
Oceanic: (+8% default rate)
14% population growth rate per downtime
6% death rate per down time
Gas: (+3% default rate)
12% population growth rate per downtime
9% death rate per down time

2) Fringe growth rate type planets (Borderline cases for civilian populations):

Ice: (0% default rate)
10% population growth rate per downtime
10% death rate per down time
Barren: (0% default rate)
10% population growth rate per downtime
10% death rate per down time

3) Negative growth rate planets (Less suitable for civilian populations):
Storm: (-3% default rate)
9% population growth rate per downtime
12% death rate per down time
Lava: (-8% default rate)
6% population growth rate per downtime
14% death rate per down time
Plasma: (-13% default rate)
3% population growth rate per downtime
16% death rate per down time

The implications of these growth/death rates for civilian PI, Industrial PI, individual PI and cities.
1) Civilian PI will predominantly be focused on the more suitable planet types. Having a growth rate that exceeds the death rate implies the population will grow faster than it dies off, providing much larger tax bases to exploit for isk generation and easier grinding of the civilian development index. Subsequently, the majority of PI pvp will be centred on these planet types if PI cities ever become economical targets for large invasion fleets. This means that Temperate, Oceanic and Gas planets will be favoured or “primaried” in the future and thus attract allot of attention. This does not mean that civilian PI on less suitable planets will be impossible, just very difficult to pull off.

2) Individual PI network effectiveness & efficiency will be determined to a great extent, by the planet type chosen for individual civilian based PI. Single players will be able to setup civilian networks on less suitable planet types and with optimized setups, achieve growth rates of no more than 3% or 4% per downtime. This means that the rate of growth for civilian indexes will be significantly slower on less suitable civilian planets (but will result in these planets being ideal for industrial networks). The favour for industrial networks will also be nerfed to prevent Plasma based cities becoming robotics farms that can spit out a region’s worth of robotics in a few days (assuming the city has 1 consumer electronics, 1 mech parts and 1 factory network within the city limits), by preventing near instant civilian growth and thus increase the amount of time needed to achieve higher level economies and install PI-Hub upgrades that would result in increased production.

3) PI Cities will thus either be Civilian or industrially orientated (for the most part), seeing as planet types will have no effect on Military networks. Protection for cities will be required either way, in addition to serving as a much needed isk sink in light of the earning potential that multiple cities will grant corporations and larger alliances. Cities can thus consist of a combination of Civilian networks & Military networks (on more civilian orientated worlds), Industrial & military networks (on more industrially orientated worlds) or all 3 network types for maximum wealth generation, resource exploitation and protection. The makeup of these cities will ultimately fall down to individual/corporation or alliance preference.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#8 - 2011-09-08 19:26:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 8 of 14]

3.0 PI Cities
Due to the limitations of the PI CC’s mechanism (CPU + power), massive cities cannot be built with PI by single players. Why not enable a number of PI networks (owned by different players or different alt characters owned by the same player) to be combined into a “city” as an entity similar to an alliance, which consists of a number of Corporations/CCs which can be selected by the City manager/Alliance executor/CEO. All the segments/networks/Command Centres which form part of the “city” will share benefits with the other segments. This will not enable the City Manager control over other CCs which a player does not own if those CC’s are a part of the city (Just as being a part of the alliance does not grant the alliance leader direct control over his member corps). The size of Cities in terms of the number of networks per city should be limited to the maximum size of an Alliance, if this is convenient for CCP. Cities can be named by the City Manager, similar to corporation/character/alliance/Outpost names. No 2 cities can have the exact same name and all cities will be listed as an owned asset by the respective corporation/alliance, similar to offices, systems and stations.

If a group of players could form a “City” the way they can form corporations and alliances that could be tied to a new “City management skill”, with info tabs and rankings similar to alliances, attributes, and a management screen that would allow them to each manage their own segments individually, while seeing the combined effect of all of them working together and all of this being achieved using the existing PI mechanisms, then this would be really cool. Cities will be the foci of populations and production capacity on the planets and could substitute POS/outpost based production/ research/manufacturing capacity for poorer alliances/corporations who cannot sustain such infrastructure financially. Likewise, larger alliances could claim all the planets they could maintain to supplement or replace the costs of existing manufacturing and research infrastructure. While single players with a single command centre can still build a civilian segment by him/herself, it will not have allot of employment to sustain a very large population, or a proper tax base (Tax payable to civilian CC segment owner’s wallets by default, but could be set to pay into the City wallet) as compared to a group of players attempting to do the same thing by working together.

There will need to be no major graphics overhauls for the existing PI systems and no RTS element in terms of spamming units and attacking other cities for Eve players. This paves the way for the introduction of larger environments that could be converted into urban combat sites for Dust, or social areas for both Eve and Dust players. Planetary Cities can be created the same way sovereignty is captured in space and upgraded, using a Planetary Infrastructure – Hub (PIHub) to setup and upgrade a city on the surface. This unique sovereignty system will only be applicable to PI structures/networks and not the planet or its surface. A PI-Hub is in effect an upgradable structure, place-able on a planet like any Command Centre would be (And would also thus be limited to 1 PI-hub per planet per player/corporation, but multiple PI-hubs per planet per alliance) that could be upgraded with a number of available modules designed to grant specific and longed for bonuses to PI operations for all member networks of that specific city. This also implies the introduction of a City Development Index, similar to existing Sovereignty index levels.

Capital Cities
If a corporation/alliance owns more than 1 city on a planet, they can upgrade any 1 city to a Capital city. Capital cities will have upgradable social areas and allow corporations to “own” agents and generate commission/revenue from all missions run from those agents. Capital Cities can produce capital ships on the surface, provide 25% extra bonuses to all city upgrades and are invulnerable to capture unless all non capital cities have been captured or wiped off the map.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

#9 - 2011-09-08 19:26:25 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
have not fully read yet but i like the idea of PI meaing something... and i like sim city Cool

sorry to cut your post in half

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#10 - 2011-09-08 19:28:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 9 of 14]

3.1 City Development Index & PI-Hub upgrades
Each City’s PI-Hub will have 12 slots (3 for Industrial, 3 for military, 3 for Civilian and 3 for Economy) into which level based upgrades can be installed, in addition to being able to grind its development index along the following lines:
1) Industrial
2) Civilian
3) Military
4) Economical (overall level)

1) Industrial development
This pertains to the level of production/manufacturing/research of existing PI commodities or items within the city limits (the industrial PI networks in the city). The more Industrial networks are producing commodities/manufacturing ship items or researching and the more employment opportunities the city has (measured with installations, each installation will receive an “employment capacity” attribute) as a result, the greater the level of Industrial development in addition to the rate at which development is obtained.

An initial idea for the Industrial level requirements could be:
Level 1 will require 2205 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (3375)
Level 2 will require 4410 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (6750)
Level 3 will require 8820 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (12,500)
Level 4 will require 17640 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (25000)
Level 5 will require 35280 commodities (P2 or higher) produced per month (50000)

Each level of development unlocks a new selection of industrial based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These industrial PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to:
i. (Level 1 upgrade) Production Bonus -> All facilities produce 25% more commodities per cycle
ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Storage Bonus -> All storage buildings receive a 25% bonus to capacity
iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Drill power reduction -> All ECU’s require 25% less powergrid
iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Powergrid bonus -> All networks receive 25% more powergrid
v. (Level 5 upgrade) Resource Regen Bonus -> Planetary resources regenerate 25% faster (no stack)
vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Link power reduction -> All City links use 25% less powergrid

2) Civilian development
This pertains to the total population of the city in addition to the number of civilian networks and services delivered to the populous. The greater the population level and the more services (greater areas of delivery) are being delivered to the available population of each civilian network, the faster and higher the civilian development index will be. The greater the amount of services delivered, the more this modifier will reduce the death rate, as the quality of life increases. The greater the quality of life within a network/city, the less of an impact high taxes will have on that segments/city’s growth rates. High taxes stifle growth, where as low taxes nurtures it. For further reference, please Google Imperium Galactica 2’s City/planetary mechanisms.

An initial idea for the Civilian level requirements could be:
Level 1 will require a 50,000 strong population
Level 2 will require a 100,000 strong population
Level 3 will require a 200,000 strong population
Level 4 will require a 400,000 strong population
Level 5 will require an 800,000 strong population

Each level of development unlocks a new selection of civilian based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These civilian PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to:
i. (Level 1 upgrade) Fuel Economy -> Civilian networks use 25% less fuel per hour
ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Graduate programs -> All academies train crews/commodities 25% faster
iii.(Level 5 upgrade) Amarr Government -> 25% bonus to city population capacity/employment
iv. (Level 5 upgrade) Caldari Government -> 25% bonus to receivable city tax per dt
v. (Level 5 upgrade) Gallente Government -> 25% bonus to range of city service hubs
vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Minmatar Government -> 25% bonus to city population growth per dt
*Note, only 1 government can be installed per PI-Hub

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#11 - 2011-09-08 19:29:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 10 of 14]

3) Military development
This relates to the number of military networks in the city and the level of defenses and resilience any city would have to Eve-side bombardments from orbit. The more defensive structures and networks are present and the greater the military operational cost of the city is, the faster and higher the military development index will be.

An initial idea for the Military level requirements could be:
Level 1 will require 1 military network present
Level 2 will require 2 military networks present
Level 3 will require 3 military networks present
Level 4 will require 4 military networks present
Level 5 will require 5 military networks present

Each level of development unlocks a new selection of military based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These Military PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to:
i. (Level 1 upgrade) Planetary Invul Shielding -> +25% bonus to planetary shield resistances
ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Military Budget -> -25% to operational costs of all military buildings
iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Planetary Fuel reserves -> +25% bonus to PShield fuel storage capacity
iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Training programs -> +25% bonus to training speed of military commodities
v. (Level 5 upgrade) PShield Field Extender -> +25% bonus to Planetary Shield hitpoints
vi. (Level 5 upgrade) Defensive Overloading -> +25% bonus to damage of Planetary Defenses

4) Economic Development
This pertains to the overall development level of a city as measured against the first 3 indexes. To obtain a level 1 economy, level 1 in Military, Industrial and Civilian indexes must be achieved. Lower level economies will provide a larger amount of bonuses and wealth to the controlling players/corporations/alliances as compared to Cities with no economies or individual networks. High level economies will provide maximum wealth generation for the owners and may even force alliances to revise strategic targets during 0.0 and alliance warfare to include cities, hopefully moving a % of the attention away from existing POSes, Outposts or other structures/infrastructure of interest in capturing or laying waste to systems.

An initial idea for the Economic level requirements could be:
Level 1 will require mil1 + civ1 + indy1
Level 2 will require mil2 + civ2 + indy2
Level 3 will require mil3 + civ3 + indy3
Level 4 will require mil4 + civ4 + indy4
Level 5 will require mil5 + civ5 + indy5

Each level of development unlocks a new selection of economic based mods that can be purchased for the PI-hub. These Economy PI-mods (at time of post) are available in but not limited to:
i. (Level 1 upgrade) Service Economy Upgrade -> -25% material requirements for production
ii.(Level 1 upgrade) Planetary supplychain management -> -25% bonus to fuel and operational costs
iii.(Level 3 upgrade) Tax Reform -> +25% bonus to city receivable tax
iv. (Level 3 upgrade) Infrastructure upgrades -> +25% bonus to link capacity
v. (Level 5 upgrade) Resource conservation -> +25% bonus to resource regeneration

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#12 - 2011-09-08 19:31:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 11 of 14]

3.2 Connecting individual PI networks to Cities (PI-Hubs)
To facilitate Cities, an alliance mechanism needs to be introduced for PI CCs. Once a PI-Hub is placed on any planet with other CCs placed by other characters present on the surface, you will be able to select your CC and be presented with a “Join city/Leave city/Create city Option” using a mechanism similar to joining corporations. Selecting this option will present the CC owner with a list of all the current PI-Hubs on the planet in addition to a list of Cities that those Pi-Hubs belong to. Joining a city or creating a city will automatically link the selected CCs/networks to the appropriate PI-hub with a link that is automatically created by the PI-hub, thereby facilitating a single network consisting of two or more separate segments, controlled only by their respective owners but granting each other’s segments bonuses and interacting with one another on some levels.

A new skill should be introduced, something along the lines of “City Management”, which could fall under the current PI skills. Each level of this skill will enable a player to create and manage 1 city/PI-hub, per planet per level, with a maximum of 6 cities/hubs at level 5 (Similar to the Interplanetary consolidation skill).

*Note that any player can opt to join any city, but the city executor will be notified of your application to the city and has right of admission. This means they can either accept your application or reject it similar to corporation applications. City Executors can remove any of the city segments/networks at any time.

3.3 Conquering Planets/Destroying Cities
To conquer a planet, all cities/networks must be seized or destroyed individually. City networks located in 0.0 that are conquerable/compatible with dust, can only be captured or lost under one of 4 conditions.

1) Dust players capture the planet using the dust mechanisms (No Eve/Capsuleer involvement)

2) Eve side orbital bombardments destroy the PI-Hub(s) with dreads or Titans (Results in loss of city, networks removed from appropriate Eve owner’s planet list(s). If the city’s PI-hub is destroyed, the city is destroyed). Eve dread Pilots can warp to a planet with PI networks on it. Similar to the “view in planet mode” option a capsuleer can choose if he right clicks on the planet, players will be given an option to enter “planetary orbit”. This is a holding area, where ships can still fly around and engage each other. Dread pilots will be able to enter siege mode (or attack without it) and begin laying waste to PI networks in the city. Capital pilots can opt to destroy the installations network by network, or destroy the PI-Hub.

*note that no PI structures can be attacked unless the dreads are in orbit and cannot be attacked by any other ship classes besides Dreads and Titans. Warping to 0km of a planet or the customs office will not enable you to target or engage networks. Any dreads in orbit around a planet that receives a planetary aggression timer (PAT) will be fair game for any planetary based defences. Timers only die down after 14 minutes once the ship leaves orbit. Carriers, super carriers and logistic ships along with any support fleets will be allowed in orbit to assist the Dread/Titan fleets. Any Carriers that remote rep any Dreads with a Planetary Aggression timer will also receive a planetary aggression timer and take fire from the planetary defences if they become the primary target.

**If a Dreadnaught is in orbit, Dust players will be able to highlight desired bombardment areas on the surface, be they buildings or the areas between buildings, which the dreads can then lock onto like a cyno field and send in artillery strikes to take out any opposing Dust players in real time.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#13 - 2011-09-08 19:33:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 12 of 14]

3) Eve side dread bombardments reduces the city’s population to 0 (Results in loss of control of network, does not transfer ownership to attackers, City remains intact on planet surface, can only be re-captured by Dust players) Having capital ships in orbit attacking planetary installations will result in a reduction of the population every hour in the event of a planetary shield. The rate at which a population diminishes should be determined by the number of capitals, the duration of attack, the resilience of the city (measured in terms of its development indexes, higher levels lose less population while lower levels lose more faster) and the planet type. For level 5 economies, each Dreadnought attacking planetary structures will result in a 3% population reduction per hour. Level 0 Economies should incur a 8% penalty. Any Dreads attacking a planetary structure will receive a new planetary aggression timer, during which any planetary gun emplacements will open fire on orbiting dreads. These handicaps stack, so the presence of 10 dreads attacking the level 5 economy on the planet surface results in a 30% pop reduction per hour handicap for the applicable city. If no shield is present or the shield fuel is not restocked in the event of a prolonged siege, the structures will take direct damage and can be wiped out before the population is depleted.

*note that no PI structures can be attacked unless the dreads are in orbit. Warping to 0km of a planet or the customs office will not enable you to target or engage networks. Any dreads in orbit around a planet that receives a planetary aggression timer will be fair game for any planetary based defenses. Timers only die down once the ship leaves orbit. Carriers and logistic ships along with any support fleets will be allowed in orbit to assist the dread fleets. Any Carriers that remote rep any Dreads with a Planetary Aggression timer will also receive a planetary aggression timer and take fire from the planetary defenses.

**Note, that only capital ships are subject to PATs (Planetary Aggression Timers). Sub-capital vessels are too small to be locked onto and fired upon by planetside defences. This also implies sub capital ships cannot agress PI.

4) Incursions in the solar system last longer than 48 hours without getting addressed by the player base and invade the Cities. Incursions will require 48 hours after the siege/invasion begins to claim a city or cities on the planets in that system for the Sansha's Nation or any other faction that will have incursions in the future.

4.0 Terraforming
Description: (0.0 based) planetary type transformations (akin to scope and costs of building super capitals) . Based on principle of destruction = easier than creation. Easier to ruin suitable worlds into industrial PI worlds, then to create habitable worlds for easy civilian isk. Terraforming a world destroys all planetary networks/cities on the surface.

Why have Terraforming?:
Creates valuable planets out of not so valuable ones and allow alliances to customize solar systems (think branch, industrial systems with industrial planets) – incorporates misc items from the item database in an attempt to create demand for misc items and PI related items that are otherwise useless.

Terraforming chains: (what planets can be changed into + skills needed for reaction):
Lava <-> Plasmas <-> Storms (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1)
Gas <-> Storms <-> Plasmas (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1)
Temperate <-> Barrens <-> Ice (Climatology 1 + Terraforming 1)
Barrens <-> Lavas <-> Plasmas (Climatology 5 + Terraforming 1)
Oceanic <-> Temperate <-> Barrens (Climatology 2 + Terraforming 1)
Oceanic <-> Ice <-> Barrens (Climatology 2 + Terraforming 1)
Gas <-> Oceanic <-> Ice (Climatology 3 + Terraforming 1)
Storms <-> Gas <-> Oceanic (Climatology 4 + Terraforming 1)

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#14 - 2011-09-08 19:36:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
[Part 13 of 14]

5.0 City Location Penalties (Isk and faction warfare penalties/ drawbacks)

5.1 Hi-sec Cities
Hi-sec cities will not be vulnerable to capital ships bombardments, since capitals are not allowed in empire space. To this end, hi-sec cities will be nerfed severely with an “Empire tax”. The Empires will demand 15% of the financial turnover of the City’s economy per down time, per level of the city’s economy. This means that lvl 5 economy cities in hi-sec space will lose out on 75% of their isk value per downtime in the biggest isk sink in Eve, ever. This will force PI carebears into lowsec and nullsec space. Hi-sec cities will still operate on the occupancy FW (Faction Warfare) mechanic, the City automaticly enters the FW deccing system as a valid war target and the faction it swears allegiance to is determined by the sovereignty holder. I.E. If a corporation sets up the City in Amarr hi-sec, it will become a war target for Minmatar and Gallente FW corps/Alliances.

*Note, all the empire tax that cities are subjected to gets paid up equally amongst all the faction warefare corps, or rather a percentage is given to the participating FW corps as payment for service above and beyond. This will form the foundations of Empire economies and give FW something new to fight over. Planetary wealth. The more Cities a Faction controls, the more isk they get per month. If a city is lost to an enemy faction, that faction starts getting their cut of the tax per downtime/ per month.

5.2 Low-sec Cities
Similar to Hi-sec cities, low-sec cities will be taxed by the NPC faction that owns the sovereignty of the system the city is located in, but the tax will be reduced to 7,5 % per level, per downtime. If the City is located in FW space, the tax is reduced to 5% per level per downtime, but the city also gets drawn into the FW mechanic and becomes a war target. Capitals can attack these cities since its in the ghetto now.

*Note, all the empire tax that cities are subjected to gets paid up equally amongst all the faction warefare corps, or rather a percentage is given to the participating FW corps as payment for service above and beyond. This will form the foundations of Empire economies and give FW something new to fight over. Planetary wealth. The more Cities a Faction controls, the more isk they get per month. If a city is lost to an enemy faction, that faction starts getting their cut of the tax per downtime/ per month.

5.3 Null-sec Cities
Unlike hi-sec or low-sec systems, cities located in 0.0 space will have an adjustable tax system. The corporation/alliance that owns the sovereignty can determine how much they want to tax their cities, and this system will be identical to the corporation tax mechanic, which can be adjusted by the appropriate CEO or directors. 0.0 Cities do not get pulled into the faction warfare mechanic. NPC 0.0 cities will be taxed at a constant 5% per level per downtime.

5.4 Wormhole Cities
Wormhole cities work exactly the same as 0.0 cities.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#15 - 2011-09-08 19:39:00 UTC
[Part 14 of 14]

6.0 Skills for P.I 2.0

  • Interplanetary supply chain management [3] (Allows the remote launching of planetary goods to customs offices - +1 ly range per level)

  • Advanced Interplanetary Consolidation [8] (+ 1 additional planet per level - requires inter planetary consolidation V)

  • City Management [8] (Allows the control of 1 Planetary infrastructure hub/City per level – Requires Empire Control V)

  • Meteorology [5] (Basic understanding of weather patterns, 5% bonus to terraforming speed per level – requires advanced planetology V + Science V)

  • Climatology [10] (Basic understanding of planetary climate, allows unique reactions per level – requires meteorology IV)

  • Terraforming [12] (Basic understanding of planetary terraforming, -5% material requirements for terraforming per level – requires Climatology V)

Fin ~

I will take donations in the form of capitals, isk and full frontal nudity.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Jarome Ambraelle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2011-09-08 21:54:04 UTC
And CCP hasn't added you to the design team because....
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2011-09-09 10:26:25 UTC
As usual Asuka mate, you have come up with a totally new gameplay idea that just... "Makes Sense", make PI a minigame in itself. I like the idea of MORE targets to shoot at, also make Dreads more of a usefull ship. CCP really need to look into this technology for PI as it's something that makes PI more "Meaningfull". Manufacturing shoulnd't be the only product from PI.

Instant Annihilation ::

> Join channel IAPUB for more information! (Recruiting)

Asuka Solo
Tactical Narcotics Team
#18 - 2011-09-09 17:06:39 UTC
Jarome Ambraelle wrote:
And CCP hasn't added you to the design team because....

Because I'm still waiting for them to make me an offer I can't refuse. In all seriousness, I'm totally down to become a part time/assistant Dev. If any member of CCP's HR staff is reading this topic, call me/evemail me.

Also, saw your reply in the other topic Jarome. If you have some ideas about PI or w/e, eve mail me.

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#19 - 2011-09-12 04:07:15 UTC
Where's the EVE-Dust link? Ultimately there has to be something for Capsuleers to hire DUST or NPC mercs to do. Part of running PI will be managing mercenary attacks/defenses. This must be incorporated into the ideas presented here.

You mention "downtime" a scary number of times in this article. The developers are desperately trying to remove all dependence on downtime, with the aim of having EVE running 24x7. Don't require any dependence on downtime, describe "at downtime" things in terms of a discrete event happening a number of hours from certain conditions being met, or steady progress at a particular rate.

PI must include DUST by design, not by bolt-on after the fact.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-09-12 06:13:55 UTC
i said a long time ago that PI should turn into a new game branched off from eve that is like sim city 3000 or something

cities would be expensive and be built over time like skill points are earned now.

the purpose of dust is to take a city over rather then kill it and start over.
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