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Black-Ops Battleships, able to fit Covert-Ops Cloak.
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Kiryu Oranos
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#1 - 2011-09-07 00:18:46 UTC
Hey guys, I'm Kiryu Oranos, and I'm a Black-ops Battleship pilot. I'm typing this now, to question the point of not adding the ability of Covert-Ops fitting on Black-ops Battleships (Widow,Redeemer,Sin,Panther). The point of "Black-Ops" is to remain secretive, and operate behind enemy lines. I don't see how Covert Frigates can have the ability to use the special Tech 2 Covert Cloak, whereas Covert Battleships cannot.The ability to cloak while warped may not appeal to some, but to people who fly these gigantic ships(worth around 400-500 million ISK a piece), its a pretty big deal. I have been caught on multiple occasions warping in, and then having to cloak. Some of you who read this think that adding the ability of the Covert-Ops cloak, might be overpowered, but it would help greatly for the consistent Covert-Ops pilot.It makes me wonder why they did not give the ability to BOs for the nice cloak, yet the Viator, and other transport ships have the ability, when 1/4 as expensive, and they don't have weapons. Being able to bridge a fleet of Stealth Bombers into an enemy system, and then warping off while cloaked, would be the ultimate secret operation, even with the small addition of the fittable Covert-Ops cloak.I hope you readers make contributions to this page, and add your own ideas.And for those of you out there, who will post "Grass is greener troll, with wall-o-text", don't even waste your time.
Thanks in advance,
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2011-09-07 00:43:24 UTC
Its about balance. BOBS can move at their full velocity while cloaked, you're going to have to decloak to warp, but you're still at little to no risk.


Also, you have a jump drive. Abuse that sucker.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Marcus Gideon
Triglavian Assembly
#3 - 2011-09-07 03:02:10 UTC
Bombers used to have the same mechanics as Black Ops today...

They had to use a regular Cloak, but they had speed bonuses while cloaked.

Also, they could target immediately after decloaking (which they still can).


However, CCP eventually realized they belonged in the CovOps family, instead of remaining an estranged cousin.

And it's about time Black Ops join the family too.


As it stands, Black Ops never go forward. They can send a CovOp fleet into battle, and the fleet can always cloak their way back. But the Black Ops is visible for the entire return trip. At best, they can go ahead and then remain cloaked at a deep safe.

Adding CovOps cloaks won't make them overpowered, and everyone will adapt regardless.
Anshu Zephyran
Knavery Inc.
#4 - 2011-09-07 06:51:54 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Its about balance. BOBS can move at their full velocity while cloaked, you're going to have to decloak to warp, but you're still at little to no risk.


Also, you have a jump drive. Abuse that sucker.


Well, that's fairly easy to change. Get rid of the cloaked speed bonus and change it for a CovOps Cloak fitting bonus, like every other ship that fits a CovOps Cloak. (Why they don't reduce the CovOps cloak to have sane CPU requirements and just limit what ships can fit it like they do with strip miners is beyond me, but that's another thread.)
Ajurna Jakar
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-07 07:38:36 UTC
Anshu Zephyran wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Its about balance. BOBS can move at their full velocity while cloaked, you're going to have to decloak to warp, but you're still at little to no risk.


Also, you have a jump drive. Abuse that sucker.


Well, that's fairly easy to change. Get rid of the cloaked speed bonus and change it for a CovOps Cloak fitting bonus, like every other ship that fits a CovOps Cloak. (Why they don't reduce the CovOps cloak to have sane CPU requirements and just limit what ships can fit it like they do with strip miners is beyond me, but that's another thread.)


because they didn't implement it first the right time around and would have to think of a new bonus for recon's that doesn't just mean they can fit a covops cloak

http://eve-corp-management.org/ 
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-09-07 10:29:14 UTC
A covops cloak is not a solution to the BOps' problem, thanks.

No sig.
Kiryu Oranos
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#7 - 2011-09-10 05:58:38 UTC
Aiwha wrote:
Its about balance. BOBS can move at their full velocity while cloaked, you're going to have to decloak to warp, but you're still at little to no risk.


Also, you have a jump drive. Abuse that sucker.


Actually, my mates redeemer got webbed by an insta-lock cane(he later was killed), when he came through a low-sec gate, there is much risk added to the fact that us BOp's pilots can't cloak and warp away cloaked.
Kiryu Oranos
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#8 - 2011-09-10 06:00:51 UTC
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:
A covops cloak is not a solution to the BOps' problem, thanks.


Many Black-ops pilots find it hard to run out of low-sec or 0.0 with non-cloakable warping. If you don't think so, then feel free to tell us all what the solution is.
Kiryu Oranos
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#9 - 2011-09-10 06:02:59 UTC
Anshu Zephyran wrote:
Aiwha wrote:
Its about balance. BOBS can move at their full velocity while cloaked, you're going to have to decloak to warp, but you're still at little to no risk.


Also, you have a jump drive. Abuse that sucker.


Well, that's fairly easy to change. Get rid of the cloaked speed bonus and change it for a CovOps Cloak fitting bonus, like every other ship that fits a CovOps Cloak. (Why they don't reduce the CovOps cloak to have sane CPU requirements and just limit what ships can fit it like they do with strip miners is beyond me, but that's another thread.)


I completely agree with you on the Cloak change for the Black-ops
Sigras
Conglomo
#10 - 2011-09-10 09:48:43 UTC
Kiryu Oranos wrote:
Many Black-ops pilots find it hard to run out of low-sec or 0.0 with non-cloakable warping. If you don't think so, then feel free to tell us all what the solution is.


you mean like using the MWD while cloaking trick and moving >31 km from any non-arazu/keres and insta warping after decloak?

The way you talk makes it seem like .5 billion is a lot of isk when it really isnt, and to be quite honest, giving one black ops ship a covert ops cloak would be perfectly balanced, the problem comes when you have a fleet of 20 of them with fuel trucks covert ops cloak bridging with a stealth bomber fleet.

When you think of balance, you have to think of the macro scale as well as ship to ship; thats the problem with supercarriers btw, in small groups theyre not so bad, its when you get 50 of the that things get wrong.

What black ops' need is a rethink, what are they supposed to be? covert ships support ships that provide bonuses to their fleets? or covert combat ships that get in there and mix it up?

Right now theyre half of each and all of neither; theyre kinda support ships that can supply a little ancillary damage. Once their role is defined then you can discuss balance in context of what theyre supposed to do.
Ineka
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-09-10 10:41:43 UTC
Black Ops are fine has they are, if you don't know how to use them just ask Ninja Muppets to learn you Lol

Send cyno alt baits somewhere pilgrims are best, several BO's available blahblahin while the cyno dumb searches.
Engaged: the bait wait end shields open cyno, jump in rep the bait kill the stuff, loot the goodies, profit

So difficult to do indeed, you need at least 2 neurons one to jump and another for F1 Lol

PVP by NMWUH huh!!!
PsyKzz
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#12 - 2011-09-10 11:50:05 UTC
Blackops imho, just need to have their base stats buffed to that of their t1 counterparts. Simple

Meh.
RL Dabney
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2011-09-11 13:50:24 UTC  |  Edited by: RL Dabney
How about this idea:

The blackops already have a fuelbay, why not add the ability to use fuel to engage in a cloaked warp. Fuel amount used based on range of warp, same mechanics as the jumpdrive.

That way you would have the ability to warp cloaked, but you would have to be very selective about when you do it. And to keep doing it, you would require logistics behind you to supply you with fuel, just as the JD operation needs now.

Or:

Having a covert ops cloak fitted would disable your jumpdrive. So its either the ability to use the jumpdrive, or the ability to warp cloaked...

And i agree to the poster above me, main issue (for me) with BOPS is the horrible fitting abilities...
kerjin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-11 21:23:59 UTC
Replace pointless cloak bonus with a useful jump range bonus.

If you are warping a blackops then you are doing it wrong.
XO SPECTRE
#15 - 2011-09-11 21:52:45 UTC
kerjin wrote:
Replace pointless cloak bonus with a useful jump range bonus.

If you are warping a blackops then you are doing it wrong.



PURE true
RL Dabney
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2011-09-12 03:20:23 UTC
And for the people using the blackops in wormholes, the jump bonus would do exactly what?
Kogh Ayon
Know-Nothings
I Will End Your Whole....
#17 - 2011-09-12 03:50:21 UTC
Making the covert cloaker consumes cap is the prerequisite
Infinion
Awesome Corp
#18 - 2011-09-12 04:35:20 UTC
I agree that Covert cloaks aren't what's needed to be adopted by blackops, so let me offer a slightly different approach.

I think the characteristics of the cloaks on black ops needs to have a functionality improvement. Make proto and improved cloaks overloadable on black ops and have a role bonus that states "Role Bonus: on overload, cloaking devices are able to activate while black ops ship enters deceleration stage of exiting warp"

So if the problem is that black ops ships can't enter a grid without being completely spotted, this is a perfectly feasible alternative that doesn't make their mobility overpowered and unbalanced when scaled accordingly.
kerjin
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-12 11:01:10 UTC
RL Dabney wrote:
And for the people using the blackops in wormholes, the jump bonus would do exactly what?


I havent bothered to jump thru a wormhole in months, I couldn't care less, along with the rest of the lowsec population.

If I was a worm - a black ops would be my last ship choice.

Infinion wrote:
So if the problem is that black ops ships can't enter a grid without being completely spotted, this is a perfectly feasible alternative that doesn't make their mobility overpowered and unbalanced when scaled accordingly.


I don't understand, a blackops _is_ currently capable of being on grid without being spotted on directional scanner or even in local.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#20 - 2011-09-12 12:48:35 UTC
Problem is, they can't ARRIVE on grid without being spotted.
Sure you can warp in and cloak, but then they'd know you're there... somewhere.. and they'll know when you're leaving because you have to decloak to engage warp. Adding covert cloak and the non-targetting delay onto a Black Ops would help a long way into making it a proper ship for a covert fleet.

Preferably also add capital torpedo launchers or capital sized bombs to their complement so they can appear out of nowhere and WTFPWN a capital.

Does railgun ammunition come in Hollow Point?
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