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EVE Mysteries - Haakkainen Musings

First post
Kaito Haakkainen
#1 - 2011-09-06 18:15:54 UTC
For some time I have been collecting data, cross-referencing it and establishing possible implications regarding the "Sleeper Mystery". The project naturally expanded well beyond the original topic and now contains information on many different, but related, mysteries within EVE. This information has been compiled into a .pdf document and I hope you find it useful and/or interesting.

It is not, as the foreword will make clear, a finished document. The original OP on Backstage was a request for assistance from the community and that request remains. Additional information, sources and ideas supported by such are all very much welcome. Please keep any theories short, preferably a couple of sentences for each piece of evidence.

Thank you to all those who have aided, directly or indirectly, in the continuing creation of this document.

Version 0.52 is available here

Re-written foreword
Additions regarding Awakened Informorph
Additions regarding the Insorum Problem
Additions that occured in reading
Large number of corrections and edits
Theory section dropped
Duplicate Vitoc section dropped

Awaiting further developments and contributions.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-09-06 18:43:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
Oh, I thought you had stopped playing. Nice to be proven wrong.

And thanks for the new pdf, of course.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

CCP Dropbear
C C P Alliance
#3 - 2011-09-06 20:15:32 UTC
This is my de-facto reference document when talking at conventions/panels/etc about just how crazy awesome our player base is and the immense creativity abundant for us to tap into (for live events, and EVE as a whole).

I'll be interested to read the latest version, particularly since the theory section has been dropped.
global telstar federation offices
Greater D.U.S.K. Coalition
#4 - 2011-09-06 20:55:26 UTC
How are you going to merge it with the Arek'Jaalan pages on the Wiki that will be approved by CCPTwisted

If i dont know something about EVE. I check

See you around the universe.

Hawks Eye
#5 - 2011-09-06 21:09:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Hawks Eye
I just want to express a sincere gratitude to you Kaito for putting this together. This is really a magnificent piece of work and you should be commended for your efforts!
Kaito Haakkainen
#6 - 2011-09-06 23:49:18 UTC
Salpun wrote:
How are you going to merge it with the Arek'Jaalan pages on the Wiki that will be approved by CCPTwisted

While I won't due to time constraints everyone is more than welcome to quote the document or use it as reference in their own work.
Ataraxia Pharmacies
#7 - 2011-09-07 06:11:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Myyona
Kaito Haakkainen wrote:
Salpun wrote:
How are you going to merge it with the Arek'Jaalan pages on the Wiki that will be approved by CCPTwisted

While I won't due to time constraints everyone is more than welcome to quote the document or use it as reference in their own work.

I am seeing AJ partly as a conversion project of your musings into pure IC format. Sadly, little has been done so far, but I plan to do mine to change that. You will get your credits, I promise.Smile

CEO - Ataraxia Pharmacies Personal Biography

Haseo Antares
Production N Destruction INC.
#8 - 2011-09-07 19:06:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Haseo Antares
Very interesting read...took me a while but I read everything lol. Anyways one thing you mentioned caught my eye. You said that when the nation staged an attack in the Taisy solar system they took an unkown substance from the moon. I recently ran across an interesting item in the database that might be what was taken from that moon.

That item was:

Quantrium Wiring

While the universe is full of metals of all shapes, sizes, and compositions, there are some metals that are of such rarity and quality that they command prices far beyond those of the more easily accessible metals, such as tritanium. Amongst these, the very small quantities of a rare metal called quantrium are among the most valuable. This metal can only be found in the polar regions of certain moons, and these only in systems that meet very specific astrogeological conditions. So rare is this metal that, to date, only two known moons have quantities of this metal sufficient to warrant the very expensive mining and refining equipment required to extract it. Both of these moons are in Caldari space, giving the State a monopoly on its production and sale. Currently, all processed quantrium is on long-term contract to Kaalakiota Corporation. While rumors occasionally surface that one or more of the other three races have discovered quantrium, this has not been verified.

There is also an item called Spools of Quantrium Wiring...but anyways just thought I'd mention that. Originally I thought that the item might just be from a mission but it hasn't turned up on any searches for missions.

Anyways keep up the excellent work...that whole article blew my mind so excellent is the best word I can come up w/ atm lol...

We currently have the world's greatest linguists and scientists trying to decode what you just said.

Mebrithiel Ju'wien
anshar incorporated
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#9 - 2011-09-13 15:39:26 UTC
Yay! Somethign to test the new printer ink cartridge on when it arrives ^_^;;
Michael Turate
Goonswarm Federation
#10 - 2011-09-13 19:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Michael Turate
Wow! A labour of love and a tour de force. I've skim read it over an hour or so and the elegant way it draws together so many different strings of lore and mystery is a wonder to behold. I'm very much looking forward to reading it in full, keep up the good work!

One think that occured to me to mention was this from the Amazon page for the new Eve novel: Templar 1

“There will be neither compassion nor mercy;
Nor peace, nor solace
For those who bear witness to these Signs
And still do not believe."

Book of Reclaiming 25:10

New Eden: the celestial battleground of a catastrophic war that has claimed countless lives.

The immortal starship captains spearheading this epic conflict continue their unstoppable dominance, shaping the universe to their will and ensuring a bloody, everlasting stalemate.

But a powerful empire is on the verge of a breakthrough that could end the war and secure their rule over mankind forever. For deep in a prison reclamation camp, a secret program is that will unlock dangerous secrets of New Eden’s past.

It all begins with inmate 487980-A . . . Templar One.

Prepare for DUST 514.

Seems to back up your theory in your work that Sansha/Sleeper technology will be used in the cloning of Dust 514 troops.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-14 08:21:21 UTC
Ok, Kaito, I am going to disagree on a part of the document here.

You write in the chapter on the Yan Jung:
Yan Jung relics have been retrieved both from an excavation site on Matari Prime and in w-space that date back roughly fourteen to fifteen thousand years which is stated as being the late Yan Jung era or shortly thereafter. [source] This connects the Yan Jung to both locations.

But when I read that source I find no confirmation that these are Yan Jung items, only that they are from a period where the Yan Jung existed. It appears much more likely that the chronicle is talking about Sleeper artifacts considering one of them was excavated out in Matari space and would lend support to the theory of the construction of huge space ships for the purpose of transporting/deporting the Sleepers to w-space. I mean, it is fair to assume it would take some kind of massive transport capability to move a whole society. Besides, there is no other evidence of Yan Jung in w-space (plenty of Sleeper, though) giving more credit to idea that it must be Sleeper artifacts. We should not forget that the two civilizations did exist at the same point in time.

The thought of the two having some kind of awareness and dealings with another is strong, though we have no solid evidence to support it. You forget to mention that the Yan Jung and Sleeper inhabited constellations are neighboring each other, though located in two different regions.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Kaito Haakkainen
#12 - 2011-09-14 19:12:24 UTC
Thanks to Messrs Datloran, Antares, and Turate for their contributions. These have been noted for addition to the next version.

Jowen, you are quite right the source does not state that the artefacts were Yan Jung in origin merely that they dated to the Late Yan Jung Era. This shall be corrected. The only known factions at this time, over 14,000 years ago, were the Yan Jung and the First Jovian Empire. The Talocan may have existed simultaneously or may have risen and fallen before this period. Other factions may have existed at the time, descended from the various corporations which migrated through EVE. Amongst these are Indocon and Europa Yards Consortium, though they themselves may be the ancestors of the prominent factions present at the time.

The Yan Jung are known to have colonised Deltole and the Sleepers were, according to mounting evidence, the First Jovian Empire whose territory extended to Detorid. The dead storms in Detorid and reduction in habitability of Deltole V and VI may suggest this era saw conflict between the factions of the time. The neighbouring COSMOS constellations may further support the idea of these two factions being involved in conflict. Whether the Yan Jung and Sleepers were at war with each other, or were allies against another faction or factions is as yet unknown. Alternatively internal, philosphical, or other forms of conflict may have caused the lasting destruction.

The whole thing begs the question that if the Sleepers were around in this era, and were the First Jovian Empire, what happened to them. The First Empire lasted for nearly ten thousand years before it's fall, how does this fit in with what we see of the Sleepers in w-space? How did they go from this relatively low level of technology to their fall thousands of years later. More importantly why did it take them so long to fall given the dangerous technologies they were apparently researching in their early centuries. I find the span of the First Jovian Empires time to be something that doesn't quite fit in with... anything. All one can assume is that either there is a lot we haven't been told, or that we are wrong in our assumptions.

All this avoiding speculation on how possible Jovian relics on the Minmatar homeworld fits in with The Orders manipulation at Eanna, the Sefrims manipulation of the Amarr, and the involvement of a group with advanced infomorph technology and knowledge of ancient relics in the rise of Jamyl Sarum.
Zealots of Bob
#13 - 2011-09-15 17:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Drifnir
Is this the new unofficial W-space mystery discussion thread or is there another one for that topic?

Are we running out of leads or running into dead ends?

Do we need to bribe Dropbear for hints...or what's the next step? I'm at a loss, but i do love W-space, so...can someone point me in the right direction?

Have a nice day.

Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-09-16 06:09:59 UTC
Hm, we have no good leads on when the Sleepers inhabited the Ani constellation?

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Kaito Haakkainen
#15 - 2011-09-16 11:39:56 UTC
The only source I could find was the mission Salvage Heist detailed in your Angel Epic Arc Guide which states:
Although there are many theories, few know what happened to the Sleepers. Their ruins were already old when the Amarr reached space.

For most, the Sleepers were little more than a curiosity; an ancient civilization lost and forgotten. Then wormholes opened across the cluster.
The exact date of the Amarrians reattaining space-flight is unknown. They conquered their world in 20544AD and built their first star gate in 21290AD so the date presumably fall between these two events.

To put this date in perspective:

EVE closes - 8000AD
Rise of the First Jovian Empire - 8500AD
Late Yan Jung Era - 9000AD
Sefrim visit Amarr - 17000AD
Fall of the First Jovian Empire - 17500AD
Rise of the Second Jovian Empire - 20000AD
Sleeper ruins old - 20600-21000AD
Fall of the Second Jovian Empire - 22800AD

[Dates approximated, see document for sources]
Jack bubu
north eastern swat
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2011-09-16 18:23:42 UTC
Regarding your "presence in the dark" chapter you may want to look into the DUST 514 Chronicles

There are numerous mentions of a shadow figure / presence

for example in part 8

And through it all, the shadow figure walks unharmed. Bullets pass harmlessly through it before striking and killing someone on the other side. Smoke seems to move around it, the wind doesn’t get near it.

It stops some distance in front of me, oblivious of or unconcerned about the battle being waged around, and at times, through it. It opens its mouth, and this time I hear it. The voice that at this exact moment has me trapped below the earth’s surface. The voice that has forced me through one memory after another. The voice and the shadow that are one and the same.

“They lied to you, Traveller. Are still lying to you. In the worst way possible.”

Suddenly, I’m standing outside of it all, untouched by the rain and the fighting. I look back at the memory of me lying in a pool of my own blood, at the soldiers advancing. Minmatar soldiers; my own people. At the empty husks that once housed Cala and Krin and Gastun.

“Come, I will show you what really happened this day.”
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#17 - 2011-09-18 08:29:04 UTC
I tried to find something more on the Sleepers in the Ani constellation but could find nothing substantial except this and this.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Kaito Haakkainen
#18 - 2011-09-25 14:06:52 UTC
Contributions have been added in but there isn't really enough here to release a new version.

The most notable discovery of late is the new Neural Boosters article on the evelopedia.

Comparing this to The Vitoc Problem and what is known of the Jovian Disease suggests that the virus involved may have been intended as a booster which evolved into a retro-virus and became the downfall of the Jovians.

Both of these articles escaped my attention for some time and I'd like to request that anyone finding new official evelopedia pages, regardless whether or not they at first appear related, post links to them within this thread.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2011-09-26 09:43:35 UTC
Good addition, but that booster article is not exactly new; it and others like it has been on the main page for more years than I can count.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Kaito Haakkainen
#20 - 2011-09-27 06:45:20 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Good addition, but that booster article is not exactly new; it and others like it has been on the main page for more years than I can count.


Quite right. Been so long since I read through it that I believed it had been re-written when it was recently posted to EVEs facebok page.
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