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Miners! Make Moar Isk Nao!

Author
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#1 - 2012-01-08 07:59:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Patri Andari
tl:dr Mining missions earn you more isks and will make mining more profitable.

Note to forum moderators: Please do not move this until you read it all


CCP changed the agent mission some time ago and I am sure many of you did not realize this. I think so because mining is still so unprofitable. Mining agents only give mining missions now and they pay a bundle of LP.

If you change your focus you can:

1. Make more isk in the short run.
2. Harvest tears from non-miners.
3. Make mining ore more profitable than it is now.

If you multibox mine for ore or ice -- STOP! Or at least pause. The more people that do so it will have a greater impact. Instead mine for LP (loyalty points).

My experience has shown me that with L4 mining missions:

A. Most agents will never send you more than 1 jump outside the home station and the majority of missions will be in the home station

B. LP average 5-9 thousand lp per mission or better depending on skills and system security.

C. You will earn at the VERY least 2-4 times as much as mining ore or ice depending on the corp you work for and the items you choose from the LP store.

The setup:

3 characters. One in an Orca and two miners. The two miners fly at least Covetors (Hulks optimal) with max skills for ore and ice (including T2 upgrades) and fly T1 cruisers with 5 gas harvesters. The Orca pilot should be maxed for his ship be able to field scout drones as wells as shield maintenance bots. He should also be able to use remote shield repairers and siege gang links.

Each character should be trained for max social skills including Mining Connections V. (implants are optimal).

The Score:

At the dock the Orca holds two barges (or Hulks) set up for ore or ice mining with the their additional mods in the corp hangar. The other two characters in gas mining cruisers (I use Moas). Each character accepts a mission.

Fly to each mission and mine the ore, gas or ice. Change out fittings needed at the site. Use the Orca to stow the materials mined. Done this way, you can do three missions before having to re-dock and turn them in for more. If the station/system has multiple agents it becomes more efficient.

Unlike security missions, your efficiency scales very well with each character added. but in my experience three is the most efficient per crew. more on this later

Your Take:

Much more than you currently earn mining. Best of all? You compete with mission runners and incursion runners for profits from LP and you do so with the skills you already have. If you have a perfect Hulk and Orca characters in empire and you are mining in belts you are wasting your potential. A pair of Hulks and an Orca with average skills can earn more than 2X the LP of an average mission runner no matter how many toons he uses (including mission blitzers) unless he splits his crews. I know no one that runs multiple security mission crews with much success.

You are a mega mutiboxer? No problem. Just remember 3 is the most efficient number for a group. So if you have six characters divide them into two crews of three. Never pay cash for game time again with the isk you will earn.

Go get LP! Imagine that NPC corps are paying you a premium to mine for them!...or keep selling regular ore to the market for a loss

Best/Worst case scenario:

If a significant number of miners do this it will reduce the amount of ore on market and dilute the profits from LP. BUT...If it truly effects LP value negatively it will increase the value of ore! Why? Because that means most of you stopped mining ore. That drives up the price. So continue mining on a limited basis and horde your ore...or build stuff but only sell when you need cash. Make isk from LP until it is devalued.

When ore is more profitable stop running missions and return to the belts. If ore crashes, make fuel blocks. If Ice crashes...back to missions and sweet sweet LP...or do all three if you have enough accounts. The point is LP has not been truly exploited to its maximum potential.

What's in it for me?

Nothing really, I truly just want to see the price of minerals skyrocket. I want the tears of those who hate industry, industrial corporations and industrial focused characters to flood the boards. The majority of eve characters make their profit from L4 missions and the LP it provides. No one has the ability to crash markets better than the "free minerals" crowd. So get to it. In the end you win not matter what.

Mission runners will hate the fact that they have to share LP with you. So much so that you may want to consider using barges instead of Hulks.

If you run a well trained crew you will out mine/misson them. If you choose BPCs from the LP store, you may out build them. (most faction BPCs require a T1 item and your minerals are "free") If you have decent marketing skills and refine skills you can price your items lower than them. This competition is in your wheelhouse.

If you have ever lost a mining ship to a gank, consider it payback :)





Patri

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown

Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#2 - 2012-01-08 08:01:44 UTC
reserved for setups

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown

Skorpynekomimi
#3 - 2012-01-08 08:18:56 UTC
It'll drop, not skyrocket. At least at first.

I should go back to this, though. Maybe when I don't need my hulk for mining ice for PoS fuel, and can keep it in my mission hub.

Economic PVP

Border Queen Hadijja
Doomheim
#4 - 2012-01-08 08:30:19 UTC
Unless their mining bots can be reprogrammed for this, I don't think a significant portion of the highsec mining fleets will participate.
Abdiel Kavash
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-01-08 09:03:59 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
I should go back to this, though. Maybe when I don't need my hulk for mining ice for PoS fuel, and can keep it in my mission hub.


*facepalm*
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#6 - 2012-01-08 11:21:02 UTC
Border Queen Hadijja wrote:
Unless their mining bots can be reprogrammed for this, I don't think a significant portion of the highsec mining fleets will participate.


I don't have any figures as to how many mining bots exist but I reckon there are quite a lot of pilots in high sec who do mine ore and who are not bots.

I personally think the OP's idea is a sound tactic especially for those who 'multi-box'.
Charity Maple
Delta Innovative Tech and Cat House
#7 - 2012-01-08 14:17:49 UTC
As a n additional benefit, some of the R&D NPC corporations have mining agents. This allows you to build up your standing without having to train up to a BC for security missions, or run time consuming distribution missions. Get your standing 5.0+ with the R&D corp, get the research skill trained and start building up a passive side income in datacores.
stoicfaux
#8 - 2012-01-08 21:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Patri Andari wrote:
A pair of Hulks and an Orca with average skills can earn more than 2X the LP of an average mission runner no matter how many toons he uses (including mission blitzers) unless he splits his crews.


How long does it take on average for the three ships to run a mission?

From some quick research, a Max Hulk + Orca can slurp ~3,000m3 of ore per minute? Those level 4s seem to have ~45,000m3 of ore. So those two hulks should take ~7.5 minutes to clear the mission, giving 667 to 1,000 lp per minute. If you add in two minutes of travel time, that's 526 to 947 LP per minute? (Not including time lost to belt rats or mission rats.)

By comparison a single pilot flying a Mach or a Cheetah has been averaging 627 lp/minute without cherry picking missions. (Varies from ~350 to 2,400 lp/minute or 2,500 to 8,500 lp per mission.) If you assume 2,300 isk/lp conversion, the kill mission bounties add 25% additional income, so that's effectively ~780 lp/minute.

So, when you add in the costs for two additional PLEX and throw in cherry picked missions, I'm thinking a blitzing mission runner will make more than a three miner mission setup, unless you get a lot of those 9,000 lp miner missions.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Intar Medris
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2012-01-09 10:28:42 UTC
Border Queen Hadijja wrote:
Unless their mining bots can be reprogrammed for this, I don't think a significant portion of the highsec mining fleets will participate.



I love how people just assume every Barge in in a belt is a bot. From the bots I have seen. They are usually inefficient and not very productive. Good way too tell if some one is a bot or not. Wait a few minutes to see if they use a survey scanner. These are a must for productive mining. Also bots tend to warp in sit there for 30 secs then mine or bounce off a rock and do nothing for several minutes before warping away. I don't think you will find many bots outside of 0.8 sec. Since well they are likely to get ganked. If you were you to watch me mine you would assume out of stupidity that I was a bot. Why? Because of the common miss conception bots are SUPER efficient and a human can't out mine a bot. You also completely ingore the fact I use a alt for hauling my ore or think he was a bot as well. Once you know what and how to do it you develop a behavior, and some might think you're a bot since you do it so well.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.

luvmehard
Brave Rental Operations
Brave Collective
#10 - 2012-01-09 12:22:20 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
Good way too tell if some one is a bot or not. Wait a few minutes to see if they use a survey scanner. These are a must for productive mining.


Uhm, no. They aren't. I almost never fit one on my miners (CPU problems).
Just look at the radius of the rock and you can quite accurately deduce the ore yield.

.derp.

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#11 - 2012-01-09 19:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
I dont remember the LP form them but L3 mining missions are also of interest. They are always in the same system, so you can just dump the orca in a safe spot, boosting. The range bonus is sufficient that you hardly ever need to move the hulk form the mission warp in. The rats can be killed by the Hulk's drones. The cargo is always less than a maxed out hulk can hold. And they are always ore mining missions, so no need to re-fit or re-ship.

But, it is just a L3.

Edit: I make about 50% more per hour of mining as I make and sell stuff with the ore, than if I just sold the ore. Also for many miners, its not the isk per hour thats the driver, its the isk per click. Doing a mining mission takes many more clicks in the client interface. That's less time spent reading, watching TV, talking to the wife, chatting, and so on.

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Testokan
CyberTech Production
#12 - 2012-01-09 19:41:36 UTC
Did some testing today.

My Fleet: 2 x maxed Hulks (No minimg implants); 1 x maxed Orca; 2 x maxed Gas Harvester
Agent System: 0.5; personal standing to Agent: 9.6; Social skills all 4

I can do 4 missions per hour. Approx. 15 Minutes per Mission. This includes accepting the mission, picking the
right ship, warp to Site, fly to roid, mine, warp back to station and complet mission. Travelling time takes long for Hulks and Orca.

My average reward for these 4 missions are: approx. 9 Mil ISK Rewards (incl. Time Rewards) and approx. 20000 LP per hour.

When I mine with the same setup in belts or grav sites I can do something between 20 and 30 Mil ISK. Even more if I built stuff from the minerals. Now I don't know what the conversion of LP to ISK is, but I don't think that 20000 LP's are worth 10 Mil ISK.

What I do like about Mining missions is, that you can increase standings for your Alts a very easy and quick way.
As all the mining missions take approx. the same time, it is also very easy to calculate how much ISK and LP's you will do in x hours.

So I don't earn more running Mining Missions ISK related, but the easy and steady standing increase is for me better then running Level 4 Missions.
stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-01-09 20:11:46 UTC
Testokan wrote:
Did some testing today.
My average reward for these 4 missions are: approx. 9 Mil ISK Rewards (incl. Time Rewards) and approx. 20000 LP per hour.

When I mine with the same setup in belts or grav sites I can do something between 20 and 30 Mil ISK. Even more if I built stuff from the minerals. Now I don't know what the conversion of LP to ISK is, but I don't think that 20000 LP's are worth 10 Mil ISK.

Last I checked, if you dump your lp into fast selling ammo or implants, you're looking at ~800 isk/lp. If you take your time, you can get ~2,000+ isk/lp for particular items depending on the market. So that's 16M to 40M+ isk from the LP (not counting the isk loss from the time taken to convert the LP to isk.)

Quote:
What I do like about Mining missions is, that you can increase standings for your Alts a very easy and quick way.

You could probably supplement your income by joining or starting a company that sells standings increases.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Testokan
CyberTech Production
#14 - 2012-01-09 20:45:41 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Testokan wrote:
Did some testing today.
My average reward for these 4 missions are: approx. 9 Mil ISK Rewards (incl. Time Rewards) and approx. 20000 LP per hour.

When I mine with the same setup in belts or grav sites I can do something between 20 and 30 Mil ISK. Even more if I built stuff from the minerals. Now I don't know what the conversion of LP to ISK is, but I don't think that 20000 LP's are worth 10 Mil ISK.

Last I checked, if you dump your lp into fast selling ammo or implants, you're looking at ~800 isk/lp. If you take your time, you can get ~2,000+ isk/lp for particular items depending on the market. So that's 16M to 40M+ isk from the LP (not counting the isk loss from the time taken to convert the LP to isk.)

Quote:
What I do like about Mining missions is, that you can increase standings for your Alts a very easy and quick way.

You could probably supplement your income by joining or starting a company that sells standings increases.



Nice. I really need to check out the LP Store.
So if I summ up, it nets both about the same. Except you get lucky with an LP Store item.

My income is good enough. Smile
Zifrian
The Pannion Domin
Ghostbirds
#15 - 2012-01-09 22:19:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Yeah, most of my mission isk comes from the LP store. You just need to find out what items are profitable. I can get about 2500 isk/lp for an item I know of...which I will keep secret. Sorry P

To the OP though, not a bad idea to try out. Something to do during Hulkageddon though for sure.

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Etaoin Shrdxv
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-01-10 02:53:04 UTC
You mean griefers have to scan me down? Sounds good.

Wait, wait.. I'm solo. I don't fly a Hulk. After LP, will I still make isk/minute above market mineral prices?
Droxlyn
TOHA Heavy Industries
SONS of BANE
#17 - 2012-01-10 03:35:28 UTC
Etaoin Shrdxv wrote:
You mean griefers have to scan me down? Sounds good.

Wait, wait.. I'm solo. I don't fly a Hulk. After LP, will I still make isk/minute above market mineral prices?



Don't worry about the mineral prices. You always have to give 100% of what you mine to the agent, and they aren't refineable ores anyway. Your income will be based off of agent reward, LP conversion, and any random loot you bother with from the wrecks of the belt rats or mission pests you bat away. Sometimes they don't show up right away, so if you are in a weak ship, send a combat ship with a miner I on it to trigger combat, clean up, return with barge/exhumer. If you were going to mine anyway, you'll probably come out ahead doing the high-end mining missions vs mining ores.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#18 - 2012-01-10 04:20:46 UTC
Testokan wrote:


Nice. I really need to check out the LP Store.
So if I summ up, it nets both about the same. Except you get lucky with an LP Store item.

My income is good enough. Smile


Bonus for Miners, the mining heavy corps tend not to have great combat agents. So there's not a lot of their LP out there. I'll let you draw the conclusions from that piece of information.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
#19 - 2012-01-10 06:13:24 UTC
As someone who actually runs mining missions, I have to ask, is this a joke? I do it for the standing not isk/hour. There's no blitzing, you have to chew through a lot of ore or ice. You usually have to do some slow boating with the slowest ship in game. And the mining LP stores are pretty much the same as the other non-combat LP stores. There's less non-combat LP than combat LP, but it's not that exciting. There are some interesting LP stores such as ORE and Thukker mix, but unless you're doing those, you're not picking up LP store opportunities that anyone running missions for a normal non-combat faction wouldn't get.
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2012-01-10 15:02:36 UTC
Is it possible to do this efficiently with just 1 Hulk and no Orca boost? I only use one account, and I'm looking for some variety in my carebearing. I know there's better money, but I trained up for a Hulk a couple of years ago and haven't flown one in a very long time.

I can't justify using alt accounts because having a 400+ Million ISK flat monthly obligation really sucks a lot of the care-free fun out of the game for me.

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.

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