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Market Discussions

 
 

Suspected market bot

Author
Ante up
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2017-07-10 17:37:09 UTC
In one of the items I trade, there are some bizarrely timed price updates.I suspect a bot and I am wondering if this behaviour is worth reporting and how to go about reporting it.

What is happenning is that three different orders are being updated within seconds of each other, each at identical prices.

To give an example, I might have a sell order priced at 500.04 ISK. Three separate orders will then be updated at 499.91 ISK each, within 2 seconds of each other. The timestamps will show for example 89d 59m 26s, 89d 59m 24s and 89d 59m 22s.

I will then undercut the price, and a few minutes later the same orders will again be updated with a new identical price, again within 2 seconds of each other.

Is it possible to update orders so quickly without some type of automatic script ?







Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2017-07-10 18:16:34 UTC
If you think it's a bot then definitely report it, you can do this through the support website. Gather as much info as you can, such as the name of the character if possible and the order IDs which you can find by looking at the market data exports created by press Export Market Data at the bottom of the Market window.
Cor'El Dahken
P-V Corporation
#3 - 2017-07-10 18:38:47 UTC
I do that sometimes.
If my buy orders only partially fill at a time I'll put what I have up for sale when I get it.

I sometimes end up with 5 different sell orders, just easier to update them all while I'm on that page. And it's not like I need to undercut myself, so I just update them all to the same price.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#4 - 2017-07-11 02:01:18 UTC
I also do this legit although I tend to stagger my orders by 0.01 with the smallest quantity cheapest.

Comes up a lot with Light Ion Blaster II which I often build on lines that would otherwise remain idle.

Posting a single sell order of 2500 units pushes the market down so I instead split the sell order. If either FW people or the Russian gankers buy two thousand I still get all the sales.

Same applies with Neutrons but there the numbers are bigger. Sell orders need to be pushing ten thousand to impact the market.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Desmios Sanguis
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-07-11 19:15:37 UTC
There are TONS of market bots in eve. CCP does nothing about them as far as I know.
Ante up
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2017-07-12 08:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Ante up
I reported it to CCP, and they have passed it onto the security team.

Some of those who have replied seem to have missed the point of my post. The issue here is not the fact that he has mulitple orders for the same item. I also use order splitting on occasion - there is clearly a legitimate use for it.

The issue is the speed at which he is able to update separate orders. I'm pretty sure it is physically impossible to update orders within 2 seconds of each other. Try this - create two orders in the same market. Select the first order, change the price, hit enter, then select the second order, update its price to exactly the same price as the first order, hit enter and tell me what the time stamp difference is between the two orders. I can get it to within 5 seconds using a mouse wheel to .01 isk the difference. There is no way I could get anywhere near that speed using a completely new price that would require typing (as is the case with the strange orders I found), and 2 seconds is as far as I can tell impossible for a human, whatever the technique used.

Long story short, if anyone knows how to do updates within less than 5 seconds of each other, I would be interested in knowing your technique. Otherwise, given the fact that the orders are being consitently updated - every single time - within 2-3 seconds of each other leads me to think this is being automated in some way.

CCP have told me they do not necessarily provide feedback on each report, so I may not be able to tell you what action they have taken, if any. If I do get un update, I will post it here.
O'nira
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
#7 - 2017-07-12 16:01:48 UTC
most people use a tool that allows them to paste the price in, i'm semi sure that i could get this within a single second using legit means - will try later
O'nira
Hotline K162
The Clown Car
#8 - 2017-07-12 18:04:10 UTC
Ante up
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-07-13 00:47:26 UTC
OK I'm impressed. FYI my client is not as fast as yours and I cannot reproduce what you did, but I cannot discount that it might be possible on a faster rig. In any case you have demonstrated that it is possible to do what I thought was impossible.

Although I still suspect there is a bot at work, simply because of the sheer consistency with which the updates are carried out, I will let CCP know that update pattern is not in itself definitive proof that there a bot at work.



Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#10 - 2017-07-13 01:19:37 UTC
You can copy paste prices. I do this regularly and can definitely get adjacent seconds at least if not the same second.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Joule Serine
Milk is Love of Killmail
#11 - 2017-07-13 09:10:02 UTC
Ante up wrote:
OK I'm impressed. FYI my client is not as fast as yours and I cannot reproduce what you did, but I cannot discount that it might be possible on a faster rig. In any case you have demonstrated that it is possible to do what I thought was impossible.

Although I still suspect there is a bot at work, simply because of the sheer consistency with which the updates are carried out, I will let CCP know that update pattern is not in itself definitive proof that there a bot at work.





The secret is that scrolly mouse wheel. After that, tab+enter to ok.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#12 - 2017-07-15 21:28:21 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
I also do this legit although I tend to stagger my orders by 0.01 with the smallest quantity cheapest.


yep, easy to copy/paste prices and update a few orders in a few seconds, and as said by someone else use the mouse wheel to change by .01 if you want to order the prices in a certain manner.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Peta Chieve
White Partyhat Warehousing
White Partyhat Trading Company
#13 - 2017-07-21 12:57:35 UTC
I have aussie ping and i can get my orders within 1-2 seconds difference when i change the prices.

Ctrl+C
Ctrl+P

Proud CEO of White Partyhat Trading Company

We look forward to meeting you.

Strelok Holmes
Shiptoasting In Local
#14 - 2017-07-21 21:36:05 UTC
Peta Chieve wrote:

Ctrl+C
Ctrl+P

You mean Ctrl+V?
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#15 - 2017-07-22 05:42:04 UTC
Strelok Holmes wrote:
Peta Chieve wrote:

Ctrl+C
Ctrl+P

You mean Ctrl+V?


Copy, Print...

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com