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How much bling is too much bling?

Author
Krizsan Zarathud
Systematic Nihilism
#1 - 2017-07-02 07:21:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Krizsan Zarathud
Hello gentle beings,

I'm missioning in high-sec and wanted to know if there's a "rule" (like the 3k/ehp hauling rule) about blinging mission ship.

As I see it, there's two kinds of bling: the one you need (like, lower CPU requirement) and the one you use so you can kill stuff faster.

I only use one deadspace mod (a Pith B X-large shield booster), but as my income increase, I want to buy a better...everything! (beginning with a better propulsion system)

Any advice or commentary?

Thanks!
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#2 - 2017-07-02 08:07:10 UTC
If you are aware of risks and feel added gear is sufficient improvement go for it.

Faction dmg mod or two combined with ultra cheap x type shield boosters is not that bad and definitely improvement

Full faction fit is swag deadspace fit is overkill for anything missions purple is you just being bad.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

guigui lechat
the no fock given
#3 - 2017-07-02 11:53:02 UTC
Krizsan Zarathud wrote:
Hello gentle beings,

I'm missioning in high-sec and wanted to know if there's a "rule" (like the 3k/ehp hauling rule) about blinging mission ship.

As I see it, there's two kinds of bling: the one you need (like, lower CPU requirement) and the one you use so you can kill stuff faster.

I only use one deadspace mod (a Pith B X-large shield booster), but as my income increase, I want to buy a better...everything! (beginning with a better propulsion system)

Any advice or commentary?

Thanks!

guigui lechat
the no fock given
#4 - 2017-07-02 11:54:19 UTC
holy **** the forum deleted my answer ?¿?


I said you just need 100k ehp/B worth of EQUIP (removing rigs which don't drop) to be average non worth to kill with canes at gate.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#5 - 2017-07-02 19:02:13 UTC
guigui lechat wrote:
holy **** the forum deleted my answer ?¿?

it does that literally all the time, I ctrl+a, ctrl+c all my posts out of habit now, of course the rare times I forget are the most likely times the forum eats the post. Good thing the new forums don't seem to do that.


most of my ships use a few faction damage mods and a cheap pith booster. These are really the main things to go bling on. Faction damage mods use way less CPU and give more damage so they are my main priority, and then the pith boosters were mostly in the 30-50mil range so they are pretty cost effective and a good way to get more boost for the same cap. And if you armor tank Imperial Navy ENAMs are pretty cost effective around 30mil each, and faction Large armor reps are historically cheap since AARs came into play. And if you use specific hardeners you can typically pick up deadspace for fairly cheap.

Faction afterburners are pretty cheap, and looks like a few faction MWDs aren't too expensive either. I looted a shadow 500mn MWD a while back and it was pretty cheap so I used it rather than selling it, but most of my ships have meta mwds. don't really need to pimp there but cheap enough it won't really draw attention. A while back RF 100mn ABs were pretty standard bling for many mission ships, looks like you can pick up a domination for even less.

those are the main places I use faction stuff, and most of my fits don't get too expensive. In big mission hubs less is better. 2 faction damage mods, faction booster or rep+EANMs, and a faction prop mod and you are looking at ~300mil in loot which is rather low for gankers. a third damage mod would keep you under 400mil, and I typically use three. I'd say 500mil is my cut off. This is with faction BS/Marauder EHP levels. This leaves some room for some cheap faction utility mods.

Things I would avoid:
Faction tracking comps get pretty expensive and don't give enough boost that I would use them for missions, but they seem pretty standard for incursion fits. Same with faction/deadspace invluns, they get super expensive for a solo mission boat, but are popular in incursion groups. Gist shield boosters also get into the silly expensive territory. Faction sensor boosters seem to have dropped a bunch in cost. Faction guns don't really give enough benefit to be worth it imo, that might get changed soon™ when they do tiericide to guns. With guns they do a bit less damage but use less fittings and cap, and with launchers they have better rate of fire, but can't use t2 ammo, and you will want to use fury ammo. and 30-50mil per mod isn't too expensive but when you need to fit 8 it gets to be more expensive than it is worth imo.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Krizsan Zarathud
Systematic Nihilism
#6 - 2017-07-03 07:34:49 UTC
Everything's clear and makes perfect sense.

It's pretty hard to understand this kind of things when you're a newb, because looking at fits on osmium without explanations is pointless, and comparing every module stats in Pyfa takes time (and isn't really pratcical).


Thank you all for your answers!
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#7 - 2017-07-03 16:56:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Donnachadh
There is no such thing as too much bling.

And I mean that seriously, fly what you want, use all appropriate precautions and to hell with what others say you should or should not do. One of my mission characters occasionally flies a Golem worth more than 6 billion ISK and I enjoy it because there is nothing better than grossly overpowered ships when you want to crush some rats at the end of a bad day. Gank magnet some say and there is a degree of truth to that, but with that bling brings more EHP and more tank DPS. Yes you are a more attractive target because of the value of the potential drops when/ if you blow up, however they have to bring significantly more ISK worth of ships to the party to try and blow you up so it tends to balance out in the long run. And remember you do not have to kill those who attack you in high sec, you only have to survive 20 to 30 seconds until Concord ends their party.

To be honest and completely serious this is a game and nothing that happens in it affects you in your real life so do what you want to do. If you are not comfortable flying blinged out ships then do not fly them the stress and worry over losing it would take all of the fun out of the game. On the other hand if you are like me and enjoy the grossly overpowered nature of things then go for it, add all the bling you want, use proper precautions and simply accept that sooner or later you will have to replace the ship.
innocent alt
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-07-04 17:56:07 UTC
Some small hints for flying a bling ship in high sec missions:

1. Try not to get ship scanned. Have undocking and docking BMs at your agent's station. Use the undock BMs with varying "Warp to" distances (better even use several BMs with some distance to each other).
2. Fit cloak + MWD or cloak + AB (depending on the mission). At the gates use the cloak + MWD trick. If using the AB instead of the MWD it depends on your skills how much time players have to lock you. In my experience a Nightmare (AB bonus!) with good skills can pull off the trick with an officer AB almost perfectly. A Machariel has a harder time with the same AB, even if its agility is greater.
3. Do not buy the bling mods with your mission running char!
4. While in mission hit dscan all the time. If you see probes warp off to a safe spot and cloak. Wait it out or maybe even dock up.
5. Have several mission running setups in several distant places. So in case you feel someone is stalking you you have a way to verify this by moving (unless they are smart!).

Obviously running missions this way is less relaxed than running them with an ordinary T2 fit. Those points are not foolproof in any way (see below), but they should decrease your chances to be ganked greatly.


My experiences with running a 50B mission boat for years: I got ship scanned at gates three times in all that time (as far as I was able to tell), when I was lazy and careless.

However, two of the scans led to a corp and their friends stalking me (following me around even if moving to far away areas), trying to catch me in a gate camp (trying to suicide gank, failed thanks to cloak+AB) and finally war deccing my solo corp. Dodging that war dec by using a different character was no big issue, but it was a kind of nuisance nevertheless. In the end no harm was done to my assets, though.

Krizsan Zarathud
Systematic Nihilism
#9 - 2017-07-04 18:18:40 UTC
Thanks for the help, that's a lot of useful tips!

I only have two faction / deadspace mods on my fit, but this game makes me paranoid beyond sanity.
Fluffy Moe
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2017-07-05 00:40:19 UTC
Krizsan Zarathud wrote:
Hello gentle beings,

I'm missioning in high-sec and wanted to know if there's a "rule" (like the 3k/ehp hauling rule) about blinging mission ship.

As I see it, there's two kinds of bling: the one you need (like, lower CPU requirement) and the one you use so you can kill stuff faster.

I only use one deadspace mod (a Pith B X-large shield booster), but as my income increase, I want to buy a better...everything! (beginning with a better propulsion system)

Any advice or commentary?

Thanks!


Why not just run them in the game simulator and see ? It will tell you right there and then what your total stat changes are. Do the "ship info" on your simulated ship for stat details. It will also tell you how much your fit costs based on local market data, so you will know how much risk you are actually running.

If you have the skills, why not just use regular T2 and occasional green faction stuff for that matter ? 100k EHP + 700ish DPS at long range is nothing, you can do it on any BS (even basic T1) without using any bling stuff whatsoever, jsut T2 and meta 4 mods.

And if you're missing just a tiny bit here and there, don't forget you can use skill implants, instead of blinging a ship.

Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Rebel's Without A Cause
#11 - 2017-07-08 01:24:10 UTC
Deadspace tank modules are usually good. They put up the price but also increase the tank. Note sometimes the A-Type and X-Type modules.can be cheaper than B-Type, because people farm them in null. Factional tank modules are usually the same as T2 ones, just costing less fitting resources. Exception is the factional EANMs, which is also pretty cheap (30mil), and passive hp-increase module, which you probably wont use in missions, and the syndicate DCU, which is very expensive and not a great boost.
Deadspace and factional props are pretty good, but can also be expensive. I dont know about the AB, but for MWD, I recommend the Gist X-Type 500MN one, great boost, about 100mil and NO CAP PENALTY!
Factional damage upgrades are good, but after 2 the difference would be very small.
RF target painter is relatively cheap, but I dont know how big the difference is.
Navy ammos, drones and cap charges are cheap and widely used.

P.S. Some of the cheap (<5mil) "bling" modules I know: pirate armor hardeners, dark blood large nos, A-Type passive armor non-adaptive resists, domination EM shield hardener (worse than T2), pirate thermal, kinetic, exp shield hardeners, C-Type thermal, kinetic, exp shield amplifiers.
Slan Slacker
30plus
Fidelas Constans
#12 - 2017-07-10 10:55:32 UTC
Bling it out to the max (as long as it is helpful) and then play with appropriate caution. I mean what is your isk for? There are some very nice mods that make running missions more fun. Just don't fly your ship around the universe where everyone can see it. Buy your expensive mods with another character and use the Haulers Channel to arrange it to be shipped to a "safe" place. Don't have it shipped from Jita to Amarr and then go and get it yourself in a T1 hauler. Instead have it shipped to your mission system, then contract it to your mission runner.

For years I only used T2 modules because of paranoia. But as I got richer and more comfortable with PvP and enemy tactics I realized almost all of the risks can be mitigated. So why not enjoy that bling and make your mission ships more fun to fly? Almost all my characters live in null sec, but I have a couple in highsec for mission running... because I like running missions. Actually enjoy it. I read the text and everything. I love rescuing the Damsel. I loot and salvage everything and I always kill everything. I never blitz a mission. Yeah it is only about 50m and hour with LP conversions, but I like it. I also like making mission ships and theory-crafting on them. Sometimes what makes it work is some bling. Sometimes a lot of bling. Deadspace adaptive invulns are an example of very expensive mods that can really up your resists. Alternatively you can use a low/mid/high-grade implant set to get bonuses to augmetn your bling to make it even better. BTW don't fly that pod around in an interceptor, frigate or by itself. You can see these kills all the time. Wrap that pod in a beefy, tanky ship and keep it out of the way of the gankers.

The cure to high sec worry is to live in null for a while. After that, caution and paranoia become second nature. High sec ganks of expensive mission ships are extremely rare and are done by relatively few people and corps. Most of these are done in trade hubs or SEO mission hubs. You can use zkillboard to find high sec, expensive kills and see where they are happening yourself. You will see that almost all of them are wardecs. Find a good home for your mission runners, get to learn the locals. Mark them blue to you. Use dotlan and zkillboard to identify all the alliances and corps that gank high sec missioners and mark them red. Don't run an epic arc (too much risky travel) in a 4b macherial/vargur/golem, use a 600m rattlesnake instead. Fly defensively and you will be fine. If you get popped then hats off to them for beating you.
Cathablia Sarain
Broke-Ass Agency
#13 - 2017-07-10 21:11:06 UTC
Krizsan Zarathud wrote:
Hello gentle beings,

I'm missioning in high-sec and wanted to know if there's a "rule" (like the 3k/ehp hauling rule) about blinging mission ship.

As I see it, there's two kinds of bling: the one you need (like, lower CPU requirement) and the one you use so you can kill stuff faster.

I only use one deadspace mod (a Pith B X-large shield booster), but as my income increase, I want to buy a better...everything! (beginning with a better propulsion system)

Any advice or commentary?

Thanks!


Well for myself i use a "cheap" full tec 2 typhoon setup with 1-2 faction modules and a cheap X armor rep and i dont seem to meet too much trouble
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2017-07-11 07:49:42 UTC
I tend to fit my ships with T2 (orange), Faction (green) and Deadspace (blue) mods, whichever ones will make my ships have the best stats available. Course I also fly them defensively as if everyone is out to get me (knowing what type of game this is, that statement is pretty close to the truth).

Bottom line is if all you do is PvE, then might as well spend the ISK on your ship for better results.

As for your question of 'How much bling is too much bling?', I think having Officer (purple) mods is too much bling. Now that is definitely a gank magnet for sure.


DMC
Krizsan Zarathud
Systematic Nihilism
#15 - 2017-07-11 09:04:55 UTC
Thank you all for your replies, that's a lot of good advices.

My problem comes from the lack of PVP experience and forum-induced paranoia Big smile

And the fact that I have little understanding of market prices: 100 millions for a mod sounds expansive, but you can make that in 3 hours cleaning missions, or one lucky drone escalation.

I'm playing safe (never afk, watching local for gankers and checking names on killboard), but I wouldn't know what to do if I was warp scrambled in my mission pocket. So, I'll stay 80% T2 until I have a better understanding of pvp and only bling tank a bit.
Alasdan Helminthauge
HC - Rebel's Without A Cause
#16 - 2017-07-11 09:52:41 UTC
Krizsan Zarathud wrote:
I'm playing safe (never afk, watching local for gankers and checking names on killboard), but I wouldn't know what to do if I was warp scrambled in my mission pocket.


normal mission rats never scramble. They only disrupt (in scram range lol), which means you can still active your MWD or MJD to pull range and flee. Generally you can use your light drones to take out the frigates first, and start aligning as soon as your tanking hp layer drops to 80%. You should be ok then.

BTW whether it's expensive is not only decided by the price, but also the boost amount. I'd say 100mil for a 5% boost is good (because 5% implant is about 120-150mil), but for a 2% boost is bad.
Krizsan Zarathud
Systematic Nihilism
#17 - 2017-07-11 09:58:29 UTC
@ Alasdan Helminthauge
Sorry, I meant: "if some gankers scan me down and scramble me in my mission pocket".
LulKlz Duster
Chemikals
#18 - 2017-07-13 15:53:14 UTC
I have lost billions in blinged out ships. A 200 mil Vengeance, why not!!!!
Over half a billion in a stratios, even better!!!!
It's only a game, have fun.
(Disclaimer, have a source of ISK to Feed your YOLO lifestyle)
Roderick Mellius
Prometheus LTD
#19 - 2017-07-18 19:11:11 UTC
Krizsan Zarathud wrote:
I only have two faction / deadspace mods on my fit, but this game makes me paranoid beyond sanity.


As the saying goes, it's only paranoia if you are wrong.

Never the case in EVE.

I had 2.5bil Shield Vargur fit and peps tried to gank my two times. XtraBling=XtraEHP. The first time the gankers got through my shields but I survived to be ganked another day. Added some more bling and the second time, in bastion mode I just overheated all things and watched glorious explosions all around me. It was a good day.

They will blow me to space bits eventually, thou. Just having fun while I can.Lol