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An Idea for the Small/Independent Miners of Hisec.

Author
Talislanta D'shade
Vox Solaris
#1 - 2017-06-02 07:00:35 UTC
Greetings capsuleers,


I wanted to bring to your attention an idea I have been kicking around for months in my head to both generate discussion but also the commentary on how to implement such an idea.

The idea, in short, is a mining consortium to allow small corps to punch much higher above their weight class especially in hi sec. The overall concept is an informal arraignment to start but becomes a serious effort to unify the smaller guys into an economic force to be reckoned with.

General Overview:

The consortium of independent miners, haulers, and industrialists or (CHIMHI)...yes that's a Deadpool reference there :)

1) To provide a stable place to gather for fleet operations in hi sec areas

2) Facilitate ore/ice/gas mining to promote greatest possible efficiency especially for those pilots or corps that are unable to field maximum results from their mining operations, this would be leveraged via more experienced pilots providing boosts to the fleet.

This is only an initial attempt to collect this idea in a physical format but honest and constructive criticism is welcomed.

____________________________________________________________________
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2017-06-02 09:56:30 UTC
Eve has a mechanism for that - it's called an alliance. If solo miners want to join, they can simply create their own 1 man corp.

However, if miners wanted something like this it would have happened a long time ago. Even if you got people to join it's likely they would drop back to an NPC corp the first time the alliance gets wardecced!
ScanAlt
Imperian Sciences
#3 - 2017-06-02 12:36:52 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Eve has a mechanism for that - it's called an alliance. If solo miners want to join, they can simply create their own 1 man corp.

However, if miners wanted something like this it would have happened a long time ago. Even if you got people to join it's likely they would drop back to an NPC corp the first time the alliance gets wardecced!


Valid points, all of them.

The other option that comes to mind to make a chat channel with the same aim, which I'm certain has been attempted before by someone, somewhere. You could get around a lot of the wardec-related issues that way.
Bjorn Tyrson
Decompression Theory
Digital Vendetta
#4 - 2017-06-02 12:53:16 UTC
Yes. Both ideas have been tried and failed multiple times over.
Even I tried running a chat and Intel channel for industrialists back in the day just in the heimatar region. The problem is that people who only want to solo mine have no interest in interacting with other players. And so they don't. Giving them a chat channel even if they join. Won't make them talkative.
Talislanta D'shade
Vox Solaris
#5 - 2017-06-02 19:48:18 UTC
Thank you all for the input, it is much appreciated.
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
#6 - 2017-06-02 20:03:10 UTC
Talislanta D'shade wrote:
Thank you all for the input, it is much appreciated.

Don't let the apparent reality stop you. It costs very little to try.

Worst case you meet an interesting person or two and end your experiment. Best case, you form a new social group that might continue to grow into something more. Either way the game is more interesting than if you continued to mine alone in highsec.

With the newish boosting mechanic, there might now be a space for such organization. Just don't be surprised if most miners you approach prefer to isolate themselves as much as possible from the other players and try to play Eve as a single player game.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#7 - 2017-06-03 00:02:29 UTC
We have eyes everywhere

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#8 - 2017-06-03 14:40:34 UTC
An idea for the small/independent miners of hisec:

Get out of hisec.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2017-06-04 01:44:43 UTC
Even if it hasn't worked before, doesn't prove that it won't work for you. Nobody thought Brave Newbies had a chance with they first started in HS.

But there are major challenges. HS wardecs make official structures like alliances difficult. 'Eyes Everywhere' make it hard to put out general solicitations like this thread. Not to mention the frequent 'solo and overly cautious' mindset of HS miners making it hard to recruit.

Maybe test/refine your concept in a localized area. Find a region that's low-key and travel around to the belts and try to recruit people to your cause. Offer free boosts. Hang out in the local Ice field and make friends with free boosts. If the concept works look to expand.




Red lensman
BlackSky inc.
#10 - 2017-06-07 13:11:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Red lensman
the current on grid boost make co-op mining unprofitable for more than 2-3 people in high sec as your all mining the same belt so your competing for same resources, the old off grid boosts allowed large fleets of miners spread over a system we used to mine with fleets 20+ people with 5 per belt and would add any one in system but you can't do that now. as more than 5 boosted people in a belt eat it to fast in high sec
Skorpynekomimi
#11 - 2017-06-07 18:52:16 UTC
Red lensman wrote:
more than 5 boosted people in a belt eat it to fast in high sec


For a mining op, you WANT to chew through belts fast. Mow through it, move on to the next. If you're mining and then selling the ore, you're doing mining ops wrong. You mine to get out of paying for the minerals, so you increase your margin on the stuff you sell.

Economic PVP

Red lensman
BlackSky inc.
#12 - 2017-06-07 22:21:28 UTC
but with the current boost mechanic you can only boost in the belt your in, so non corp members reduce's your take if you invite others
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#13 - 2017-06-07 22:24:46 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
You mine to get out of paying for the minerals, so you increase your margin on the stuff you sell.


100% incorrect.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2017-06-07 22:34:52 UTC
lets just say there are reasons most highsec miners are solo or very small group orientated, and haven't joined forces. varying from things like don't want the competition, don't want to get war dec'd, don't want gankers, just like to play solo.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Krysenth
Saints Of Havoc
Fidelas Constans
#15 - 2017-06-07 22:59:38 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Red lensman wrote:
more than 5 boosted people in a belt eat it to fast in high sec


For a mining op, you WANT to chew through belts fast. Mow through it, move on to the next. If you're mining and then selling the ore, you're doing mining ops wrong. You mine to get out of paying for the minerals, so you increase your margin on the stuff you sell.

Mining reduces, not eliminates, what you pay for the mined materials. While that does increase the margin, usually, of what you're selling in the end, it doesnt always equate more profit. If I can mine 30m worth of reprocessed minerals, but mine 50m reprocessed ice, harvest 100m gas, or any alternative method of generating isk that exceeds what ore mining can generate for me, I'm losing isk instead of "saving" isk.
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
#16 - 2017-06-08 00:11:37 UTC
Krysenth wrote:

Mining reduces, not eliminates, what you pay for the mined materials.


It doesn't even do that. The resulting minerals are worth exactly what they're worth. If you use them, you've bought them from yourself at that value. The money just comes out of your asset value instead of your wallet.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Kathern Aurilen
#17 - 2017-06-11 09:34:28 UTC
Ii been kinda thinking along those lines. BUT you can't make someone interact if they don't want to.

I have been thinking about all the main guys I see in ore or ice belts and a little cooperation between them would make it alot easier. Like just friends from their own Corps fleeting together and one orca brings all mining burst and one brings all shield burst and one bring all armor burst and one brings skirmish burst. Alone they do their own thing but together they would be very defensive and helpful to each other. It doesn't have to be official, I see it all the time in my local fields.

And mostly welcomes who ever comes along into fleet. Making a massive mining fleet for ice. But the ice fields aren't as big as they used to be. The older ice fields used to take hours and hours to mine out. Withe the new spawning fields, much smaller and can be cleared in a hour or so if enough hits them all at once. The main problem is

No cuts, no butts, no coconuts!

Forum alt, unskilled in the ways of pewpew!

Dan Morvis
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2017-06-25 05:28:02 UTC
I'm newbie miner. I've run with NEMCO and solo for about 2 months. Been to null and back.

I think your idea could work, but in order to do so, all members would have to heavily invest in security and combat. To me, the problem is that miners in general, not just in high sec, don't focus enough in combat skills. It quickly became clear to me that almost all high sec mining corps are fine in interesting until they get wardecced. They lack organization, skills and defensive capacities, and often get pwnd by 2 man corps with dedicated PvPers, even if they number in the hundreds. This is what I think holds back most high sec mining corps from going anywhere.
Pat Syko
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2017-06-25 13:42:20 UTC
Dan Morvis wrote:
To me, the problem is that miners in general, not just in high sec, don't focus enough in combat skills.


Exactly. EVE is game about conflict. And most miners, aren't prepared for that.
Axure Abbacus
Pentex Subsidiaries Corp
#20 - 2017-07-01 19:35:46 UTC
Many of the challenges with these types of ideas is the general risk aversion that attracts some pilots to industry. I have considered joining faction warfare before I begin taking on additional pilots just to be clear that even mining is a contact sport. The more diverseifyed your pilots are the better they will perform under a wardec.

It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.

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