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T1 Manufacturing appears to be non-profit

Author
ko-fox neburium
Backwater Mechanics
#1 - 2017-04-28 11:46:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ko-fox neburium
Hey, was thinking about t1 manufacturing, but virtually every blueprint i see apparently has profit of 1-5k isk max MOST TIMES Cry.

So i was wondering, those that say manufacturing is lucrative, how do you make money of off itWhat?

If you have any links you can point me too, would be nice Lol

Thanks
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2017-04-28 13:27:45 UTC
How? Understanding the market and lots of research ... if you are too lazy, bad luck.

I'm my own NPC alt.

ko-fox neburium
Backwater Mechanics
#3 - 2017-04-28 13:35:37 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
How? Understanding the market and lots of research ... if you are too lazy, bad luck.


But do you mine your materials or buy it? and how do you know which product to sellSadWhat?
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#4 - 2017-04-28 16:07:13 UTC
First question to ask is "are there meta versions of this module that drop as mission loot?" If the answer is yes, the only purpose for the T1 module will be as input for the T2 manufacturing process. The meta versions are better and often cheaper than player built T1.

A second question to ask "is this consumable?" Stuff in Eve doesn't wear out or go obsolete.

T1 rigs are easy to make, 1 time use (you can't unfit them) and a lot of them are quite profitable. You're better off as a small producer since you can purchase small lots of salvage at backwater stations at a lower cost than buying from aggregators in trade hubs.

Containers and deployables like Mobile Depot are usually profitable so are some ammunition and charges.

Use a tool like https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/ to investigate products you're interested in.

Once you've made something, you need to pick a trade hub and sell it. Immediate sales to buy orders are convenient but not profitable (at least for the seller). You need to create a sell order and manage it. In general, the more steps in the value chain you participate in, the better your profit margins will be.

The important thing to remember is that Eve is a game, if you're enjoying yourself it really doesn't matter how much ISK you're making.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2017-04-28 17:10:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
ko-fox neburium wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
How? Understanding the market and lots of research ... if you are too lazy, bad luck.


But do you mine your materials or buy it? and how do you know which product to sellSadWhat?

No, I don't because it wouldn't be (cost) effective. I buy compressed ore and minerals on the market. In general you should evaluate each step of the production whether and how much it contributes to the profit of the final product. For example T2 products always require the T1 version as input. You want to 1) buy it from the market if the price is below production costs, 2) produce if the price is significantly above, and 3) produce and sell T1 directly (skip T2) if the potential profit dominates the final T2 product.

This was simplified, there are more parameters, availability of inputs, blueprints, volume traded on markets, cycles/trends, invention/production time, etc.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Diametrix
Black Rise Goods and Services
#6 - 2017-04-28 19:13:25 UTC
Taken in combination, Tipa and Do Little's replies above constitute a vast sum of wisdom and valuable consultation.

For someone who declares their intention to not search 'that hard way' and asks for free advice on this forum - You, dear OP, show equally wise and considerable potential - you're searching for the easiest and most inexpensive means to get ahead of the competition.

And that's the beautiful thing about New Eden's economy - if you treat it likes it's real you will profit. It's only when you understand why things happen in markets that you can turn a profit more consistently than other players - because, just like in that other game (RL), not all decisions you make guarantee a positive return on investment.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2017-04-28 21:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Oh ... this topic again.

Tau Cabalander wrote:
T1 manufacturing is worth doing.

However it is not worth doing the items you have chosen Blink

T1 manufacturing is profitable. If it isn't profitable for you, then you are:
a) Manufacturing the wrong items for the market demand.
b) Have unreasonable expectations.

For what it is worth, I can easily earn 1b a month or more just selling one type of T1 module.

Tau Cabalander wrote:
I recommend stuff that everybody uses, even yourself.

Avoid the niche stuff. Example: smartbombs, tracking disruptors, etc.

Stuff that is more likely to be destroyed also has higher trade volumes, especially stuff that more than one unit of is fitted. Example: turrets have a higher volume than target painters.
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Don't build ships (or anything), unless you can guarantee a profit.

Everybody thinks it is cool to build ships, even when it isn't profitable. If your grandmother played EvE, she'd think building ships is cool.

Ships are by far the worst items for a new industrialist to build.
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Ship stockplies are a lot larger than most can imagine.

There are literally years worth of ships stockpiled on some accounts, and there are probably hundreds or more of such accounts.

All these ships were constructed when the costs were lower. They can sell at a current materials cost loss, and still make a hefty profit.
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Aside from ship changes that increased costs, so people mass-produced huge numbers of ships before the changes took affect and can now sell below current cost yet still turn a profit, there exists three groups of people:

Group 1: For some reason, some people feel they have a right to a profit making whatever they want to make. They completely ignore the needs of the market (often driving down prices in the process), then come into the forums and complain that the world doesn't spin in their preferred direction.

Group 2: Then there is also the "it's a game crowd". They've posted that they don't care about making profits, because they just like building stuff. They are almost like the "Minerals I Mine Are Free" (MIMAF) crowd, except they do know what they are doing, but they just don't care. They don't put a value on their time.

Group 3: Lastly there is the MIMAF crowd. I like to think they simply don't know better, unlike group 2.

Some ideas:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6398252#post6398252

Materials purchased from Jita buy orders. Costing using Jita sell order prices for materials and the final product. I consider 10% profit my bottom limit. Don't play the 0.1 ISK game; instead, price your items reasonably and leave them alone for at least 3 days. I aim to sell-off entire production runs in 3 days; if that fails, then I adjust the price and wait another 3 days, repeat. If the market is so gamed that you can't sell anything, you chose the wrong item; you should have seen that in your market research! It is best to list items before the weekend; EvE markets peak around Sunday noon USTZ. Buy orders for moon materials are filled in LARGE sprints, whenever a jumpfreighter arrives; don't waste time and ISK trying to maintain a top buy order.

FWIW, I have an alt in nulsec mining in a Mackinaw all the minerals for manufacturing 2-5 battlecruisers a week (yes, I'm building ships, but in nulsec not hisec, and I know what I am doing). Sales are slow at 10% over Jita prices, as I'm not building doctrine stuff (doctrine prices are regulated), but it does sell, and keeps my alt in ships. In just over 2 months I've built several T1 ships for my own regular use, and given a few away to corpmates and new friends I've made. Built some Industrials recently; sold extremely well, but their huge size meant I had to move 30 of them one-at-a-time to market; never again! I need to build my alt a jump freighter.

My alt went to nulsec in an Ares Interceptor, with ~40m in their wallet, and three faction ship BPC in their cargo (built 1 - it was destroyed, so I locally bought a pre-built and rigged replacement ship); first purchase was a Venture Mining Frigate, and I've worked-up my alt from there. A trusted friend moved about 1/3 of my BPO to nulsec. Probably averaging close to 1b a month without trying hard; my alt's manufacturing slots are usually empty.

Hisec manufacturing is a lot easier, because of the access to all materials, and in any quantity, plus the high market trade volumes. I have 4 hisec Charon freighter alts, because I can easily consume that much Tritanium in one production run.
Quazar Doosan
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#8 - 2017-04-28 23:05:26 UTC
Huge wisdom here for us padawans, OP

Diametrix wrote:
... not all decisions you make guarantee a positive return on investment.


Damn it! Smile

https://eve-industry.org/calc deserves a mention, as does ISK Per Hour.

ko-fox neburium
Backwater Mechanics
#9 - 2017-04-28 23:41:13 UTC
Thanks for all the info, i think ill have to study some more on manufacturing and market before going balls deep into it.

Though a friend of mine told me to start with ammo first, but seeing the BPO, the profit i calculated from most ammo doesn't go go beyond 2-3k isk per run. So it brings me to wonder, is that really a good idea to start.

Oh yea, I cant seem to notice but i have the slightest feeling, there's some kinda hate, towards my "to lazy to search" excerpt, so i shrugged that off



Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2017-04-29 02:00:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
ko-fox neburium wrote:
Oh yea, I cant seem to notice but i have the slightest feeling, there's some kinda hate, towards my "to lazy to search" excerpt, so i shrugged that off

Hate, no. Frustration, yes.

I've been posting heavily on these forums for years. Helping everyone I can, even those too lazy to search. I've probably addressed every possible question multiple times. It does get a little tedious at times, though.

Those that start with, "I just want to make some ISK. I'm too lazy to search myself, and I heard industry was perfect fit for lazy people", easily earn my ire.

Still if you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

Warning: I heavily edit my posts. Check back often.
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#11 - 2017-04-29 12:32:52 UTC
ko-fox neburium wrote:
Hey, was thinking about t1 manufacturing, but virtually every blueprint i see apparently has profit of 1-5k isk max MOST TIMES Cry.

So i was wondering, those that say manufacturing is lucrative, how do you make money of off itWhat?

If you have any links you can point me too, would be nice Lol

Thanks


1 reason my t1 is not profitable is there is someone with tons of alts buying and mass producing, before the station changes, all reseach and indy had limited slots, consequently also 1 people would use every slot in a system and surrounding systems unless you manage to catch it as they were claiming jobs and snuck some jobs in. Alt Armies kill a lot of professions like that, 1 people would produce hundreds or thousands of an item and dump it

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-04-29 13:47:57 UTC
*sigh* Alts of others have nothing to do with your problem, it's your limited imagination, willing to adapt. There are tons of non-T2/T3 stuff which are profitable to produce, even with more than 10% profit.

I'm my own NPC alt.

ko-fox neburium
Backwater Mechanics
#13 - 2017-04-29 18:24:03 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
ko-fox neburium wrote:
Oh yea, I cant seem to notice but i have the slightest feeling, there's some kinda hate, towards my "to lazy to search" excerpt, so i shrugged that off

Hate, no. Frustration, yes.

I've been posting heavily on these forums for years. Helping everyone I can, even those too lazy to search. I've probably addressed every possible question multiple times. It does get a little tedious at times, though.

Those that start with, "I just want to make some ISK. I'm too lazy to search myself, and I heard industry was perfect fit for lazy people", easily earn my ire.
.


Sorry about hoe my "too lazy to search" Sad was just tryna have fun lol LolCool
ko-fox neburium
Backwater Mechanics
#14 - 2017-04-29 18:27:56 UTC
Since my capital and skill will not be enough for t2 manufacturing in a while, ive decided to start out with manufacturing ship modules like afterburners and munitions to areas with higher demand (P.S I am absolutely going to avoid selling manufactured goods at trade hubs, due to my experience i've always seemed to be undercut) like mission running system, and if i'm feeling risky, low- null sec lol Cool
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Northern Coalition.
#15 - 2017-04-30 16:56:52 UTC
why would a mission runner need a fresh afterburner?
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#16 - 2017-04-30 17:33:06 UTC
I decided to check "old faithful" - the rig I've been recommending here for at least a year (was making them myself before then)

https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/?typeid=31716

The lowly small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I rig. If you build it in Jita using an unresearched blueprint the profit margin is over 50%

Maybe I should start making them again - not much on my current production list is more profitable than that!
Holgrak Blacksmith
Prophets of Motav
#17 - 2017-04-30 21:01:38 UTC
When I started out I bought a small number of researched BPOs and spent absolutely ages checking the profit margin on each. Profitability on BPOs ebbs and flows, a BPO may be highly profitable for a few weeks, but then everyone gets on the band wagon and it won't earn you anything for months.

Now I have several hundred different fully researched BPOs I just build absolutely everything I can and stick it in jita for either build cost +20% or higher if current price is better. You get to a point where someone is buying something you're selling every minute, and it's just a case of keeping stocks up.

Get into research as quickly as you can, train the other characters on your account aswell, keep 30+ BPOs researching at all times. You'll be surprised how quickly your bpo collection grows.

Train a freighter pilot. You will never be able to mine or produce the minerals/PI/salvage materials needed to keep a full set of manufacturing lines in permanent production.

Find your niche, there are a huge number of ways to make even t1 manufacturing profitable - I live a few jumps from jita, and I only sell my products in jita. Some people sell for much bigger margins by hauling their **** all over new Eden. I run my production slots in 4 day builds, and buy my minerals once a week or so - I don't get the best prices on minerals sometimes, but I'm protected against sudden changes in price. Some people buy months worth of minerals when they feel the price is a t a low point, and run their production lines on much longer cycles. If you persist with manufacturing you will find your own way of making it lucrative.

Start training skills to increase the number of orders you can put up. If you're planning on selling in a very specific area like me, raise your standings to reduce taxes - over a few years of manufacturing you can save yourself many billions.

People will tell you to learn the markets, the best way to do this is to just build stuff and sell it. If you make something and its selling in your tade hub for less than your build cost, don't sell it for less; stick it on at build +10-20% and it will eventually sell, might takes a few weeks or even monthes, in the mean time don't build any more of it and move on.

There are probably a dozen other things I could tell you, but it's late and they aren't coming to me now. Hope this helps a little though.
KenFlorian
Jednota Inc
#18 - 2017-05-01 00:18:42 UTC  |  Edited by: KenFlorian
Plenty of profit in T1.

I've been at this about two years.

I have about 75 BPOs. I've retired about 25 of them. Some will be retired for me when POS's are gone.

Of the remaining, I am not building all of them all the time.

I'm in solid 10 figures per month profit on an average of 7 hours per week game time

One example: I spent the 'exorbitant" amount of patience and time researching an item to ME10. I've seen any number of BPOs of it on the market at < ME10. It took perhaps a year for it to become profitable and now....joyous good news.

I'm playing the long game and having a riot doing it.

Confirming Holgrack's comments and insights.
Glace Kabasir
Doomheim
#19 - 2017-05-02 10:48:58 UTC
Then there are also market manipulation and people focusing on trade putting out batches of stuff they've bought on the markets. It's way too easy to buy stuff dirt cheap from people who just click "sell" without caring they get around 10% or less of the market value, and that means they can always undercut you. But I don't know too many who'd do this with regular T1 mods (too little margin for most traders), though it might explain if you notice the prices going way below production costs. Some people just crash market prices for ***** and giggles.

There are profitable T1 items but as with anything, you need to do your homework, research the prints, find the cheapest possible place to manufacture, and the right place to sell. And they constantly shift from profitable to unprofitable and back.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#20 - 2017-05-09 08:30:42 UTC
KenFlorian wrote:
Plenty of profit in T1.

I've been at this about two years.

I have about 75 BPOs. I've retired about 25 of them. Some will be retired for me when POS's are gone.

Of the remaining, I am not building all of them all the time.

I'm in solid 10 figures per month profit on an average of 7 hours per week game time

One example: I spent the 'exorbitant" amount of patience and time researching an item to ME10. I've seen any number of BPOs of it on the market at < ME10. It took perhaps a year for it to become profitable and now....joyous good news.

I'm playing the long game and having a riot doing it.

Confirming Holgrack's comments and insights.


Just replying to the bolded comment.

If you are talking about items where ME 10 is an enormous amount of research, I often find there is more profit in reselling the ME 10 BPO, and reseraching a new one...

Or copying the ME 10 print, and selling the copies (if it is an item that takes a while to build, such as a carrier, or even some smaller things like modules for capital ships).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

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