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Need help with potential citadel/ engineering complex setup in lowsec

Author
Brometheus
The Creative Assembly
#1 - 2017-04-27 18:47:04 UTC
1 Arrow What is the best way to go about anchoring one in lowsec? It is a quiet system but still, any tips or tricks?

2 Arrow Fitting recommendation for fending off anyone who would want to attack

3 Arrow Using it primarily to build/ refine out of, astrahus has a 3 hour vulnerability window compared to 9 on the Raitaru...but Raitaru has bonuses to things I would actually be doing. Which one would you guys recommend and why?

4 Arrow Not entirely sure how to get in touch with the locals, no main group really seems to run the system

5 Arrow What skills are required to anchor Raitaru/ Astrahus, fuel consumption and all that. The info in-game doesn't mention any of this, unless I am missing something

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! o7
Benson en Efnyssen
Celtic Anarchy
The Bastard Cartel
#2 - 2017-04-27 21:53:24 UTC
There will defintely be a local pirate group in the area. Check the moon-goo moons and see who owns the towers.

Your biggest risk is it getting shot as it comes out from unanchoring. Otherwise the effort involved in bashing is a decent deterrent alone.

Definitely fit it though, depends what you anchor but either way without a defence fleet its still pretty vulnerable

Getting in touch with the locals may not wort in your favour.... Big smile. Worth a shot though! See the POS one above and check killboards, check their public chat channel and speak to them...

Fuel consumption is for service modules only. If you dont want to put any labs, clone bays etc the fuel cost is 0.

ArrowArrowArrow Good arrer!

Where abouts are you putting it up...?
Antheria
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2017-04-28 04:08:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Antheria
Are you nuts?

Find a quiet hi-sec system & set up your base there. Sure you won't get the extra bonuses of being in lo-sec but I reckon your asset will survive quite a bit longer.

If you are determined to avoid hi-sec, you'd almost be better off finding a good null-sec corp to join with a relatively safe system or two under their control & setting one up there.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-04-28 07:47:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Have a look to the thread about Pakkonen's public ECs a couple of lines below ... the OP may be able to help.

Anyway, setting up ECs for your own is hardly cost effective unless you push through really great volumes, but this would wreck the system index killing the cost advantage. The best option IMO is to use public offerings. This also allows for switching systems in case the index becomes to high.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2017-05-07 12:46:28 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Have a look to the thread about Pakkonen's public ECs a couple of lines below ... the OP may be able to help.

Anyway, setting up ECs for your own is hardly cost effective unless you push through really great volumes, but this would wreck the system index killing the cost advantage. The best option IMO is to use public offerings. This also allows for switching systems in case the index becomes to high.



Can confirm that one person can ruin a system index fast.

I've had to split my research and production over multiple systems because the indicies get too high too fast.

One system I ruined by building about 10000 Torpedo Launcher II over a period of a month or so, alongside a couple dozen faction capital modules (CONCORD 25000mm Steel Plates, etc) and a hundred or so T2 capital modules.

Another I ruined by researching capital BPOs. Not a lot of capital BPOs either, I certainly do not have the capital to run 50 science lines doing ME/TE research on dreadnought BPOs all at once. I wrecked that system by doing 4 or 5 FAX BPOs and a few dozen capital module BPOs, alongside a couple dozen structure component BPOs.

Since I spread my activities over two systems, however, I've been able to wreck one system, then transfer my work to the other one, and bounce back a month or so later. Works for me.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2017-05-07 15:31:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
I remember the first system I did my industry stuff, the index clearly followed my on/off times with the expected delay.

The overall picture is a total mess IMO outside big corporations/alliance, with a shared, diverse and protected infrastructure. If nobody makes a stable profit or at least can pay for fuel and protection with offering public services (and I doubt somebody can say that with a straight face), those who offer public access today will cease doing so sooner or later, leaving those big entities who's agenda is power and control.

As I said in another thread, the Upwell structures are made for player controlled space and big corps and alliances, they are dysfunctional as an alternative to NPC stations in empire space. Jita trade will not move to a destructible player controlled structure anytime soon, instead we keep playing this silly offshoring game to at least partly mitigate CCP's Tobin tax. Even more the structures break an existing balance and gameplay, e.g. faction warfare and wormholes, without offering a new balance.

In total the new structures make the gameplay in the different spaces of New Eden less diverse, by introducing a powerful, universal tool which caters only one single play style.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2017-05-08 20:28:05 UTC
I can't get into details, because OPSEC, but the most important thing is to find a system that is dead.

A system that is a hisec entry-point is an extremely bad choice. Doesn't have to be a major access point either; just the shortest path to hisec will make it a bad choice.

A system without stations is also a bad choice, as you'll also want to anchor an Astrahus for asset safety.

A system with a lot of moon mining is also a bad choice.

I also recommend putting the structure somewhere non-obvious where it doesn't stand-out visually upon entering the system. I made that mistake, and lost an Astrahus.
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#8 - 2017-05-10 18:51:38 UTC
You may find this tool useful when searching for systems to set up production in - it shows you the manufacturing/science indices over the last few months so you can see whether people are ramping up or ramping down production in the system.

https://stop.hammerti.me.uk/system.indexes/

Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck

Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related.

Structure name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api

Aurelius Oshidashi
Hard-line Syndicate
Serrice Council.
#9 - 2017-05-17 09:38:37 UTC
I suggest you join us in null sec. We offer you total freedom to do whatever you want, no obligations except your API when joining and a 1% tax to cover some corp expenses. We have better ore, rats and sites than in low. And because of our exact location and powerful coalition, it's super safe here.

Although we don't oblige you to join on any op, you are free to join the ops both our Corp, alliance and even coalition undertake.
Tessa Sage
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-05-17 10:00:35 UTC
Brometheus wrote:

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! o7


The bonuses on rigs is largely what prompts citadel owners to anchor in lowsec. However, with the staggering increased cost to deploy the T2 rigs where the multiplier makes the most bang, you may consider a hisec T1 hub is more beneficial in the short term. Expect citadels in high traffic locations to get taken down before a month's time, if not at first anchoring. Even in hisec, attentive pirate groups can wardec you within the 24 hour first anchoring.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#11 - 2017-05-17 10:10:29 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
I remember the first system I did my industry stuff, the index clearly followed my on/off times with the expected delay.

The overall picture is a total mess IMO outside big corporations/alliance, with a shared, diverse and protected infrastructure. If nobody makes a stable profit or at least can pay for fuel and protection with offering public services (and I doubt somebody can say that with a straight face), those who offer public access today will cease doing so sooner or later, leaving those big entities who's agenda is power and control.

As I said in another thread, the Upwell structures are made for player controlled space and big corps and alliances, they are dysfunctional as an alternative to NPC stations in empire space. Jita trade will not move to a destructible player controlled structure anytime soon, instead we keep playing this silly offshoring game to at least partly mitigate CCP's Tobin tax. Even more the structures break an existing balance and gameplay, e.g. faction warfare and wormholes, without offering a new balance.

In total the new structures make the gameplay in the different spaces of New Eden less diverse, by introducing a powerful, universal tool which caters only one single play style.



You are assuming the people that put up public citadels have a competitive mindset.

I am currently using someone else's well rigged citadel for a large volume of production. They are charging me peanuts.

I'd still use their service if there was a 500m/month fee for doing so, but the office I rented costs less than one quarter of one percent of that sum, and the facility taxes are trivial.

If the system index gets sent to hell by the production I am doing there, I will just move but bookmark their facility, and use it again in 5 weeks time when all the damage I have done is undone.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
#12 - 2017-05-17 14:47:44 UTC
No system is quite, it just seems that way, there are people who are lurkers (they call themselves spies), who scour the eve universe looking for things to report to their masters so a bashing party can be put together, one thing to keep in mind is how obsessed folks are with killerboards and a complex is a nice badge for them.

If your interested in that system there is a good chance that someone else also thinks this too, what attracted you attracted them, also it may be a system that a powerful null Corp uses to get into high sec, take your time and research it to find out whom this peaceful quite piece of real estate belongs to...it probably someone's back yard.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2017-05-17 15:37:07 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:

You are assuming the people that put up public citadels have a competitive mindset.

Yes, but rational thinking is the only useful assumption you can make. I'm like you using every bit of the new system to my benefit (this is EvE), but I criticize a system, which to make it work requires irrational or altruistic behavior of players.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#14 - 2017-05-20 11:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
A quiet low sec system is not as bad as many people claim.

For Citadels/ECs/ and the coming refineries, bashing is still boring, just like POS bashing was/is boring. Most players don't bother unless there is some benefit to them from it. Killing a undefended structure is not really fun or engaging. There are some who don't need a reason, but as I said it is boring, many will not bother.

If you can go unnoticed and stay off radar you have a good chance of being left alone.

I lived in low sec for 2 years. had a large reaction POS that never once got attacked in the 1.5 years it was deployed. And it was even in a high traffic system. Maybe I was just insanely lucky, but I found life in low sec quit enjoyable, once I learned the basics. Do your own research, do not rely on others to tell you what to do.

I have recently returned from a break, but I doubt things have changed much.

You always have to remember though, any asset in space is vulnerable, low sec is the most insecure space, generally dominated by pirates.

Occasionally low sec systems are policed by large alliances as a pipeline to their null sec space, but they will not defend your assets. There is a good chance they will ignore them however, if you are not interfering with their operations.

Still, do not anchor it if you can not afford to lose it. there is always a chance you will log on to see a timer from an attack you didn't even know was coming. Low sec does not require a war dec for attack, and the attackers can use dreads. If they want your structure gone, there is little you can do to stop them.

Citadels/ECs will not auto defend themselves, no matter what is fitted, there are no passive defence modules. Not like POSes. Arming a citadel is only beneficial if you are online to actively control it when it is attacked. Even then, without a fleet you have very little chance of defending it. Your primary defense is your invulnerability timer, and the hope that the locals have no reason to clear you out of their system.

Citadels have a vulnerability window, which POSes never had, set that window to a time inconvenient for the local pirates and they will likely ignore you. anchor as far as possible from the gates so it is not at the top of the list when people jump into the system. If you are lucky you will be ignored, If not well, you can afford the loss right?
Skorpynekomimi
#15 - 2017-05-21 16:53:13 UTC
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

Economic PVP

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2017-05-21 21:28:44 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

The System index determines the cost of jobs. It increases with the number of job hours running. Hence, the more people doing stuff in a system the higher your industry costs in that system.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Skorpynekomimi
#17 - 2017-05-21 23:09:10 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

The System index determines the cost of jobs. It increases with the number of job hours running. Hence, the more people doing stuff in a system the higher your industry costs in that system.


Neat. Is there a known formula for this for me to plug into my spreadsheet?

Economic PVP

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2017-05-22 12:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

The System index determines the cost of jobs. It increases with the number of job hours running. Hence, the more people doing stuff in a system the higher your industry costs in that system.


Neat. Is there a known formula for this for me to plug into my spreadsheet?

Roughly number of job hours in system vs. number of job hours in universe. But you don't need a spreadsheet, there is this: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php

EDIT: new article related https://imperium.news/api-reveals-hourly-manufacturing-activity-for-every-system/

I'm my own NPC alt.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2017-05-23 18:08:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

System index is determined by activity in a system. It is an incentive to spread jobs across multiple systems.

Imagine you want to research a BPO to ME:10 or TE:10

The system index is 1.0 (low) and the research cost is 250 million ISK.

In another system the index is 0.10 (completely dead) and the research cost is 25 million ISK.

Now imagine the same job in a busy system with an index of 4 or more.

From https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/
Quote:
The index for a given activity-system pair is equal to the number of job-hours of that activity type in that system over the last 28 days, divided by the number of job-hours of that activity type in the universe as a whole over the last 28 days, and then square-rooted to give better numbers. This is then expressed as a percentage, which will tend to be in the low single digits, and can be all the way down to 0 at one end and (in theory) all the way up to 100 at the other.

I.e., where:

system_activity_job_hours is the total duration of all jobs of that activity type in that system over the last 28 days, and:

global_activity_job_hours is the total duration of all jobs of that activity type in the universe over the last 28 day, and:

system_activity_index is the index we’re creating, the formula is:
formula
Skorpynekomimi
#20 - 2017-05-23 21:58:33 UTC
Tipa Riot wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Tipa Riot wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
What is System Index and why does it affect anything?

The System index determines the cost of jobs. It increases with the number of job hours running. Hence, the more people doing stuff in a system the higher your industry costs in that system.


Neat. Is there a known formula for this for me to plug into my spreadsheet?

Roughly number of job hours in system vs. number of job hours in universe. But you don't need a spreadsheet, there is this: https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprint/costindex.php

EDIT: new article related https://imperium.news/api-reveals-hourly-manufacturing-activity-for-every-system/


I already have a spreadsheet, I just want it to spit the slot rental costs into the column on it's own. And, frankly, the formula will help a great deal.

Economic PVP