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"Bootstrap" notions, entire new temporary regions to justify it

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Caldari State
#1 - 2017-04-27 17:32:49 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
Disclaimer: This isn't completely fleshed out yet. I'm just kind of spitballing this, so when you rip it apart, please also try and think of ways to make it work, as well. The ultimate goal of all this stuff is to make it POSSIBLE to never dock in an NPC station. Not easier, just possible. And a fun thing to maybe do with that.

NPCs sell blueprints and skills. Why? It's always been that way, sure, but why should it be that way? (Besides LP and limited stuff, anyway.)

Pods cannot do anything... except generate newbie ships.

I have thought on these things. How about:
1:
Pods make newbie ships

  • Pods get one inherent module: they can go to an asteroid, activate the module, and the pod drains the nearest asteroid in TBD range for a small TBD amount, and creates a racial newbie ship around the pod, complete with civvie miner and crap-gun, maybe afterburner as well. (Locked targets is 0, but no real need to target the rock.)

This should not be effective in any PVP situation. I'm not intending it for that purpose anyway. Can still get newbie ships from pod docking in NPC stations.

2:
Creating blueprints/skillbooks from ISK.
Currently, you just go buy the things. That's fine.

How about another system: deployables that do stuff. Ships can build certain deployable items from stuff:

  • 25% efficiency refinery deployable, created from any ore. Intended to be a crappy stepping stone. Not affected by any skills. SLOW.
  • Blueprint creator: long timer, creates blueprints of non-LP NPC-available blueprints, timer is roughly equivalent to how long it would take to fly to a station and buy it. Times two. Takes ISK.
  • Skillbook creator: long timer, creates skillbooks that are available in NPC stations (not LP stuff). Takes ISK, this sink is also preserved.
  • 40% efficiency refinery? Made from minerals, slow, but better than the crap one. Can do ice.
  • Straight-up mini-shipyard. Again, not as good as any other option, and can only make certain classes.
  • Alternately: let industrials refine, like they were originally kind-of intended? A no-moving module that turns an industrial into a mediocre refinery.

NONE of this stuff should make anything easier or more available that it already is- no faction stuff, or whatever. Again- not the point of the system.

What it IS intended to do, is that someone could show up in a system with a pod, and VERY eventually, build anything T1, and then T2. Build planetary command centers, build the ground-goo stuff,

And why: entirely new systems, accessible only by VERY tiny ships. Escape pods. Say, the EVE gate "reconnects" and prototype long-range one-side gates can only send escape pods.

Then, everyone goes there in escape pods. Hilarious newbie-ship PVP ensues, and the ultimate objective is to jump a titan back with something shiny, which causes all the nearby stars to go nova and destroy everything and everyone that remains in the systems (DELETE IT ALL!).

Violent debate ensues about the usual horses of local-chat and the rest of the stuff. But it would be interesting, since at first it would be near impossible to scan anyone down. Perhaps probes should not work in the entire place, because otherwise the first group to tech up to combat probes could smash anyone else back to pods too easily.

You can kind of tell which bits I have put a little less thought into. Also, I wouldn't bring any expensive implants with me...
Caldari State
#2 - 2017-04-27 17:38:02 UTC
Oh, and more stargates would be buildable (and destroyable?). Except the only thing they can send one-way without the other end built would be pods...

And when you die, you'd wind up back in empire space, and have to go back in a pod.
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2017-04-27 18:38:08 UTC
fyi if it was in range to jump a titan OUT, we'd be jumping carriers IN in like a week.



Also, what's the draw? Why should I leave my blinged out ratting revenant docked up in my home keepstar and wander off to this new part of space? What do I get out of it?
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2017-04-27 19:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
Interesting mechanic for getting into the new space, requiring taking a pod and nothing else.

Your noobship creation idea is interesting, but a bit complicated, maybe in each system there is a disabled shipyard you need to activate instead? Possibly enough salvage lying around the system to build a limited range of ships, with inbuild blueprints programmed in. Ie base combat, basic mining barge, base exploration.

I do not see the requirement for no NPC stations though, but I like the idea that blueprints for the new equipment (all equipment in the newspace) comes from rat drops, with a market coming into being as people have surpluses. But there is no fluid router link to New eden so your isk there is inaccessible.

Skillbooks could be extracted from sites by hacking, but naturally hacking modules would Need to be built into the base exploration ship.

We would need to rebuild like EVE in the beginning, but without needing NPC seeded markets to kickstart things.
There would not be any time pressure to hurry the process along, maybe a tweak to keep us on track, to match CCPs new eden deadlines, for the pioneers it will be exploration and exploration combat on "extreme" mode.

A place to build and develop, a home to create, not just another extension of The current universe, but with NPCs twisted and devious enough that Gankers and Griefers, will not find life easy. Predictable and repeatable tactics will get slaughtered, gate-camping chokepoints will be a fatal mistake. The entry points into the new universe will be have the strongest responding NPC's and the furthest away the most relaxed, in the new entry systems PVP will be like chum in the water, attracted to the aggressor Who will be swarmed by them! A far more agressive response than concord. But further away, NPC's can become part of your combat tactics.

WE will build the universe, not NPC's but NPC's will keep it interesting. Plenty of opportunity for PVP, but to do so in entry systems "get gud!" Farming pods as they come in and out is NOT going to end well. The mechanic would basically encourage all to head deeper into the new universe, for EVERY reason.

So basically, until we built enough infrastructure to build the newspace ™ side of the gate, there might be a year or even two before ships and materials could cross between. We would create newspace ™ in our own image, and in unexpected ways.

And when we DO come back, macaper's prophecy comes true “the little brother makes the final sorrowful steps home; he is not welcome” for his new world is so much brighter!

I like it, and it takes pressure off CCP to deliver everything and balance the markets quickly, there would be a good year at least to play with and a lot of fun exploring in the meantime.
Very nice.

CCP Seagull, said she didn't want to give new space until they could make it great.

I think she is missing a trick and underestimating EVE players, let us in with a few basic tools, and half decent PVE and in two years we will give you an alive thriving space, that will be great, that you can open to the wider universe!

Ccp can also use it to throw some oddball ideas and curveballs, to see how we cope, and how we run with them, sort of a live sisi on steroids! That may never make it out into the wider game.

I promise you one thing, half of WH space, signal cartel, a big chunk of HS would be forming an orderly queue to get in for an opportunity like this. It will appeal to both alphas and omegas, and make it a real boost to alphas to upgrade, as there is a more level playing field, everyone in here with a pod, the same knowledge of the space and nothing else to start. And all will need to train the new ships classes. Or possibly the SOCT have been here before us?

F1 monkeys and revenant ratters, will be quite happy for others to develop it for them.
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2017-04-27 20:51:06 UTC
Is it at least Cyno jammed?
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2017-04-27 21:13:30 UTC
No, stop being dumb.
Caldari State
#7 - 2017-04-28 02:07:47 UTC
Alderson Point wrote:
^^

You're thinking too grandiose. This would simply be extra things on top of the existing system, NOT a complete replacement. "REPLACE EVERYTHING" is a terrible idea, and would very easily result in unforeseen consequences.

There's multiple points behind the entire bit:

  • Doesn't wreck the existing economy: CCP can try things, live, and they can't have a huge effect on the markets. If it doesn't work, well, only a couple shiny limited blueprints of special ships made it back for people to gank if they ever undock. Or something along those lines.
  • Doesn't introduce/remove huge amounts of new materials: only pods go over, only whatever shiny is at the end goal comes back. Everything is destroyed at the end, but you can just stay in known EVE space and ignore it completely.
  • Again, it's not forced on anyone. Participation is strictly voluntary, and you can just go provide your services to other players who are really into it, receiving ISK in return.


I was even thinking that ISK transfers maybe shouldn't function over there... no local, no banks, no nothing, even more so than WH space? But nah. This way the system can work with ISK to make blueprints and books, and have SOME effect on EVE main.

Have multiple special jumpgates all through empire space, that can drop pods into random places in this new area. Then, the pods build themselves noobships, create a mobile depot blueprint, create a tiny shipyard, create a Venture blueprint, create more mining lasers, and get themselves started.

All without ever docking at a station. Everything is horribly exposed, but if nobody has combat probes, people would have to D-scan stuff down. And if combat probes NEVER work in this area, the first player to make a decent combat ship can't just destroy every single deep-space-base that anyone else builds.

And the first person to create a freeport citadel with a refinery will be RICH.

The skillbook generator isn't strictly necessary, but podding yourself back to empire space to inject skills would be needlessly annoying.

As far as going back... I'm not sure. Having the entire thing be ephemeral and on a timer adds a sense of urgency. And yet, the only thing that at risk is your pod, whatever you cobbled together in the time you invested, and any ISK that you invested.

Having the entire shebang explode once 5 titans use 5 special gates, destabilizing that new universe? It WOULD do that pretty well. And it would probably cause a fairly interesting war, as people who aren't done yet rush to destroy the return gates before they're built. And to use the return gate, the ship can only have blueprints and ammo in the cargo hold, or something. And it's only a titan-only thing to make it take a very long time to go from pod to titan.
Caldari State
#8 - 2017-04-28 02:14:25 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
Danika Princip wrote:
fyi if it was in range to jump a titan OUT, we'd be jumping carriers IN in like a week.



Also, what's the draw? Why should I leave my blinged out ratting revenant docked up in my home keepstar and wander off to this new part of space? What do I get out of it?

Yes, this ignores the normal jump mechanics. Special gates to get over in a pod, special gate that you have to BUILD (long time) to get a single ship back, one-shot deal, destroys the return gate in the process. With a special BPO that you can ONLY get this way.

Everyone who jumps over is basically dead, either they're going to get podded, self-destruct, or die in a fire once the place destabilizes after the last titan makes the suns go nova. Even offline people and people docked in citadels. Except for like 5-10 people, total, who make it back.

But you can ignore the entire thing, if you like. Wait for it to be over, then buy some copies of the blueprint after people bring it back and start copying it.

Or, people can wander over, and participate in a massive cluster-smash furball, where people will probably camp the belts pretty hard.
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2017-04-28 06:16:13 UTC
That doesn't answer the question though?

What's in it for me? Or for an alliance, big or small? Is there actually any kind of benefit whatsoever to moving over there and starting over in noobships as opposed to staying put, building titans by the dozen in regular new eden and ignoring the new content entirely?

I mean, what blueprint are you even talking about, and why is it worth the effort?
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-04-28 08:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
Danika Princip wrote:
That doesn't answer the question though?

What's in it for me? Or for an alliance, big or small? Is there actually any kind of benefit whatsoever to moving over there and starting over in noobships as opposed to staying put, building titans by the dozen in regular new eden and ignoring the new content entirely?

I mean, what blueprint are you even talking about, and why is it worth the effort?

What, you expect me to set everything in stone so someone can find one little part that doesn't work, and then claim the entire idea is trash? Not my first rodeo, all of this stuff is purely theoretical spitballing, and so very subject to change and balancing.

No, you're not forced to do it. Why would that even be good design? Trying to shift too many unwilling people to a new area, without their ship stockpiles or easy access to trade hubs? Disaster waiting to happen. The point is not to pull everyone out of the existing areas.

Instead, it provides a bit of an arena, with rule changes. Maybe pirate/faction stuff WON'T be available there. Maybe it could just be T1 stuff from blueprints, and eventually T2 stuff, all built onsite, with erratic and obscene markups in price. I haven't even speculated on what NPCs should be available there. Or even IF there should be NPCs at all. WHAT IF there was no bounty payout system there?

People could go there for something new, or a group could go over with the aim of setting up PI and building a citadel and making money. Like that old saying about not prospecting for gold, but selling shovels to prospectors instead.

It's a new and erratic economy, that would start off hilariously unstable, and provide an opportunity for people to work together, kill each other, get rich, and waste money. A shot of controlled chaos, hopefully without poisoning the existing well and breaking everyone's stuff.

And if some ISK faucets were missing, the only source of ISK would be other players. If you run out, well, you can always self destruct your pod and go get ISK in known space, before jumping back in. It could also serve to drain the overall ISK pool inflation if the balance was different.

And a few lucky winners could take back some exotic BPO or something, perhaps with BPC consolation prizes to runners-up who managed to make it partway along the process of getting whatever shiny back. I don't know exactly, something shiny, or CCP ccould use the opportunity to introduce some new ship model they cook up.

Does the reward even matter? People would move mountains if they could get on a single guardian-vexor killmail. Motivating EVE players to show off their e-peens doesn't seem like much of a task to me.

Or maybe one faction gets really strong and manages to knock down any return gates that anyone else puts up, and sets themselves up out there?

Then it all blows up.
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2017-04-28 10:50:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Alderson Point
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
Alderson Point wrote:
^^

You're thinking too grandiose. This would simply be extra things on top of the existing system, NOT a complete replacement. "REPLACE EVERYTHING" is a terrible idea, and would very easily result in unforeseen consequences.

There's multiple points behind the entire bit:

  • Doesn't wreck the existing economy: CCP can try things, live, and they can't have a huge effect on the markets. If it doesn't work, well, only a couple shiny limited blueprints of special ships made it back for people to gank if they ever undock. Or something along those lines.
  • Doesn't introduce/remove huge amounts of new materials: only pods go over, only whatever shiny is at the end goal comes back. Everything is destroyed at the end, but you can just stay in known EVE space and ignore it completely.
  • Again, it's not forced on anyone. Participation is strictly voluntary, and you can just go provide your services to other players who are really into it, receiving ISK in return.


I was even thinking that ISK transfers maybe shouldn't function over there... no local, no banks, no nothing, even more so than WH space? But nah. This way the system can work with ISK to make blueprints and books, and have SOME effect on EVE main.

Have multiple special jumpgates all through empire space, that can drop pods into random places in this new area. Then, the pods build themselves noobships, create a mobile depot blueprint, create a tiny shipyard, create a Venture blueprint, create more mining lasers, and get themselves started.

All without ever docking at a station. Everything is horribly exposed, but if nobody has combat probes, people would have to D-scan stuff down. And if combat probes NEVER work in this area, the first player to make a decent combat ship can't just destroy every single deep-space-base that anyone else builds.

And the first person to create a freeport citadel with a refinery will be RICH.

The skillbook generator isn't strictly necessary, but podding yourself back to empire space to inject skills would be needlessly annoying.

As far as going back... I'm not sure. Having the entire thing be ephemeral and on a timer adds a sense of urgency. And yet, the only thing that at risk is your pod, whatever you cobbled together in the time you invested, and any ISK that you invested.

Having the entire shebang explode once 5 titans use 5 special gates, destabilizing that new universe? It WOULD do that pretty well. And it would probably cause a fairly interesting war, as people who aren't done yet rush to destroy the return gates before they're built. And to use the return gate, the ship can only have blueprints and ammo in the cargo hold, or something. And it's only a titan-only thing to make it take a very long time to go from pod to titan.



Ok run with that if you like. My "amendments" or entirely different plan if you prefer, would enable pioneers to build the new space up, completely unaffecting the current eve. That would only change when the new space had developed sufficiently to create a return stargate in a year or two, negating the need that CCP build themarkets up with NPCs. Whilst giving the pioneers a completely new start to EVE. No fluid router between the two so ISK in each does not transfer, and pods both ways, to ensure technology does not transfer between.

It seems you want an additional "hard mode" rather than a slow development of new space, so I withdraw from this thread, so that I do not interfere. I am transfering it to an entirely new thread as an option, sorry for hijacking yours.
#12 - 2017-04-28 13:29:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
There are already other games that offer this sort of "building from the ground up" gameplay, and Eve doesn't need more space until we're reasonably fully utilizing the space we've already got.

A large part of the point of Eve is that you're connected to and a part of this persistent Universe. Not to be able to run off and cut yourself off from it.
Caldari State
#13 - 2017-04-28 18:23:13 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
There are already other games that offer this sort of "building from the ground up" gameplay, and Eve doesn't need more space until we're reasonably fully utilizing the space we've already got.

A large part of the point of Eve is that you're connected to and a part of this persistent Universe. Not to be able to run off and cut yourself off from it.

Well, yes, kind of. Except this isn't unconnected, as the players can easily move back and forth. They just can't use it to affect the main EVE economy much. If the new area has no bounties or ways of earning ISK, it would change things, and make it interesting. How much ISK is a Mining Laser I worth when there's only a few available? How important is it to protect industry when there's no stations to hide everything in? And no random people selling enough ore to build any given object you'd like?

EVE only did this once, at release. And a lot of people DO like this kind of gameplay. And for those who don't, well, I made it quite clear that the whole thing should really be optional.

Plus, CCP has access to a plot line of the stars being unstable. Players can jump back and trigger novas, or if the experiment fails somehow, CCP can just blow the entire thing and write it off or start over.
Goonswarm Federation
#14 - 2017-04-28 18:40:32 UTC
Yes, the reward matters. Right now there is no reason whatsoever for any player or group to go over there. If you have no draw, you are not going to see your feature used. And if it is not going to be used, it is not worth dev time that could instead be spent on something useful.
Caldari State
#15 - 2017-04-28 23:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
Danika Princip wrote:
Yes, the reward matters. Right now there is no reason whatsoever for any player or group to go over there. If you have no draw, you are not going to see your feature used. And if it is not going to be used, it is not worth dev time that could instead be spent on something useful.


  1. Finding any lore stuff
  2. Exploration
  3. Curiosity

That's 3 right off the top of my head, without any special reward required.

Or, the entire thing could be used to inject rare blueprints into EVE main, and provide a chance for people to shoot each other in a tech 1 scenario, without having to deal with station games, or the massive caches of materials that everyone takes for granted.

You know, like I said in the OP that you apparently just skimmed?

I'd just assumed that CCP is capable of creating something shiny. I don't feel the need to champion any specific type of rare shiny.

It's also kind of by design. The point is not to pull over massive amounts of people, just those who want a change and a challenge. Head in later once Citadels are up, and you can buy a few things, for instance. Or do it on day 1 and screw around with noobship pvp? Whatever. It's about emergent behavior, not forcing people to fight in any particular way.
Interhole Revenue Service
#16 - 2017-05-09 10:19:31 UTC
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Yes, the reward matters. Right now there is no reason whatsoever for any player or group to go over there. If you have no draw, you are not going to see your feature used. And if it is not going to be used, it is not worth dev time that could instead be spent on something useful.


  1. Finding any lore stuff
  2. Exploration
  3. Curiosity



Ah yes, because "Finding Lore Stuff" and "Curiosity" are why thousands of eve players log in each day. Spoiler alert: 99% of eve players don't give two ***** about the lore, and if they do, they simply google it and boom, all the lore information at their fingertips. People don't play this game because of the compelling lore or amazing exploration, they play because blowing up Internet Spaceships and getting rich is fun.

Let's try this again lol.

I am a wormholer. I like to get rich by running sleeper sites, and I like to fight other people with the ships that I buy with my isk. I took an empty system in wormhole space and put up structures and turned it into my home. How does this new space benefit me in any way? I cannot get new ships. I cannot get isk. I cannot fight other people with all my shiny ships because I cannot bring them through, and I have to abandon all the infrastructure that I spent hard time and isk putting up.

Hmm, it seems that I must completely abandon everything I have ever done or created up until this point in order to use this "new space". This seems like a bad idea! I will stay right where I am thank you very much.

...

Care to make a counter point?
Evictus.
#17 - 2017-05-09 11:36:56 UTC
Eve is a game of politics and economics, cooperation and conflict between players. New Eden is simply the arena.

The stuff that CCP provides, directly from the environment or indirectly through NPCs, should be atomic - fundamental building blocks where the complexity of subdividing into more basic components players can use to build the item isn't worth the effort from a gameplay perspective. We aren't there yet but the completion of module tiercide will allow meta modules to be player built and that will be a big step in the right direction.

To me it is logical that skills are offered by educational institutions and that blueprints are sold by large industrial groups.These also provide an ISK sink and, since a lot of them are seeded in specific regions, an opportunity for players to resell them on the market. I don't see any reason CCP should invest limited development resources here.

New space follows player built stargates on the roadmap. When it arrives I have no doubt there will valuable stuff worth fighting over and we will have the technology to create connections to known space.

A game where you are dropped in a wilderness and get to recreate civilization with your bare hands may be interesting to some but it isn't Eve. Eve needs thousands of players interacting in the sandbox to work.

Caldari State
#18 - 2017-05-10 18:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: grgjegb gergerg
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
grgjegb gergerg wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Yes, the reward matters. Right now there is no reason whatsoever for any player or group to go over there. If you have no draw, you are not going to see your feature used. And if it is not going to be used, it is not worth dev time that could instead be spent on something useful.


  1. Finding any lore stuff
  2. Exploration
  3. Curiosity



Ah yes, because "Finding Lore Stuff" and "Curiosity" are why thousands of eve players log in each day. Spoiler alert: 99% of eve players don't give two ***** about the lore, and if they do, they simply google it and boom, all the lore information at their fingertips. People don't play this game because of the compelling lore or amazing exploration, they play because blowing up Internet Spaceships and getting rich is fun.

Let's try this again lol.

I am a wormholer. I like to get rich by running sleeper sites, and I like to fight other people with the ships that I buy with my isk. I took an empty system in wormhole space and put up structures and turned it into my home. How does this new space benefit me in any way? I cannot get new ships. I cannot get isk. I cannot fight other people with all my shiny ships because I cannot bring them through, and I have to abandon all the infrastructure that I spent hard time and isk putting up.

Hmm, it seems that I must completely abandon everything I have ever done or created up until this point in order to use this "new space". This seems like a bad idea! I will stay right where I am thank you very much.

...

Care to make a counter point?

So stay. Run sleepers and buy any of the new stuff with that money. Why should every idea require everyone to use it? Not everyone runs wormholes. Not everyone runs invasions. Definitely not everyone mines. Some people avoid PVP if they can. Some people only PVP. Choices.

This is about offering another choice, of a new area where conflicts are not pre-decided by who brought the most shinies from Jita.

Then, the faction who wins brings back shinies, and everything else is removed. ISK changes hands in the meantime, and maybe sinks a little ISK out of the economy in the process.
Caldari State
#19 - 2017-05-10 18:19:04 UTC
Do Little wrote:
Eve is a game of politics and economics, cooperation and conflict between players. New Eden is simply the arena.

The stuff that CCP provides, directly from the environment or indirectly through NPCs, should be atomic - fundamental building blocks where the complexity of subdividing into more basic components players can use to build the item isn't worth the effort from a gameplay perspective. We aren't there yet but the completion of module tiercide will allow meta modules to be player built and that will be a big step in the right direction.

To me it is logical that skills are offered by educational institutions and that blueprints are sold by large industrial groups.These also provide an ISK sink and, since a lot of them are seeded in specific regions, an opportunity for players to resell them on the market. I don't see any reason CCP should invest limited development resources here.

New space follows player built stargates on the roadmap. When it arrives I have no doubt there will valuable stuff worth fighting over and we will have the technology to create connections to known space.

A game where you are dropped in a wilderness and get to recreate civilization with your bare hands may be interesting to some but it isn't Eve. Eve needs thousands of players interacting in the sandbox to work.


I very clearly proposed that skills/blueprints should continue to be an ISK sink. I only suggested another way of doing it, one more vulnerable to player interference.

And, yet again, this would not require participation. Ignore it like any other facet of EVE that doesn't do it for you.
Interhole Revenue Service
#20 - 2017-05-10 20:48:43 UTC
grgjegb gergerg wrote:

So stay. Run sleepers and buy any of the new stuff with that money. Why should every idea require everyone to use it? Not everyone runs wormholes. Not everyone runs invasions. Definitely not everyone mines. Some people avoid PVP if they can. Some people only PVP.


This is exactly the problem. Here you're describing activities, not areas of space. People PVP in hisec, lowsec, nullsec and wormholes. People PVE in hisec, lowsec, nullsec, and wormholes. PVP and PVE in each area is unique, how are you going to differentiate the PVP and PVE in this new area to the point where it is actually something unique and attractive enough to consider?

The Hisec pilot who refuses to leave his "Safe" space will never go to your new, dangerous space, even if it's rewarding. The Lowsec pilot will never go to your space because he is attached to his turf, his friends, his enemies, his faction, and their eternal struggle. The nullsec pilot will never go to your new space simply because he has already everything he needs right where he is, and lord knows he can't drop his supers in newspace so that's another no. And the wormholers won't join you either for the reasons already stated.

So tell me then. Just who exactly do you expect to actually give a damn about this new space?

grgjegb gergerg wrote:

This is about offering another choice, of a new area where conflicts are not pre-decided by who brought the most shinies from Jita.


This just shows how little you know about the game. Fights are almost never decided by shinies, they're decided by hard counters. You can officer fit a Garmur, but you won't be able to even touch me if I am flying a 50 mil Keres. An officer fit Kronos can just sit and cry as it is neuted out by a T2 fit Bhaalgorn. More isk does not equal better and you should know that.

grgjegb gergerg wrote:

Then, the faction who wins brings back shinies, and everything else is removed. ISK changes hands in the meantime, and maybe sinks a little ISK out of the economy in the process.


So you want to make a new choice that is not decided by shinies, but the winners bring back shinies? OK. So if, as you say, the winner brings back a Titan. Let's even assume that somehow, due to mechanics, it is IMPOSSIBLE for large null groups to game the system and win every time by sheer numbers(which is totally going to happen). Let's assume that this benefits the little guy, and Joe Schmoe from a random 10 man corp wins a Titan(which is somehow fully fit with fuel and refits and everything).

Now what?

He can't dock it. He can't jump it to a cyno because he only has one account. He can't kill people with it because he has no capital experience and no large alliance to back him up. He can't even move his goddamn ship more than two or three systems without dying horribly because there are dozens of Hunter Killer groups who exist solely to hunt down solo and abandoned Titan and Super pilots and kill them.

We're talking about people who set up login traps and wait for YEARS for Titan pilots to log in again so they can kill them. Do you really think Joe is going to stand a chance, with no experience or backup?

And don't tell me that null groups need easier access to titans. These dudes are now churning out dozens of the things every month, so even if Joe somehow survives anything and everything, then what? What's he going to use his new solo Titan for? If you suggest PVP, if you think that he won't immediately have 50 supers and titans dropped on him then you are delusional, and if you suggest PVE and you think nobody will find him and drop 50 titans on him then you are also delusional.

Again, counter point please? And a proper one. We don't NEED another area that will make current areas even less populated and empty. We need good content for current areas. I realize that you really want to play Minecraft in space but EVE is just not the game for that. Sorry.
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