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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Inertia Modifier and Deceleration.

Author
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2017-04-14 05:48:44 UTC


So things like Inertial Stabalizers will lower your Inertia Modifier, essentially making you more agile. The tooltip says that you accelerate faster as your inertia modifier gets lower.

I'm wondering if anyone can tell me for certain if this also allows you to decelerate faster?

Say I want to stop my ship quickly on a short undock, will adding Inertial Stabalizers (or otherwise reducing my Inertia Modifier) help me to stop faster?

Thanks.

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2017-04-14 05:54:18 UTC
It does. However fast you accelerate, you will deccelerate at the same speed.


BUT... bear in mind that Inertial Stabilizers will make you easier to target and hit.
They will also not affect your maximum speed.
And when you are coming out of a station you are generally flying much faster than your maximum speed... meaning that it will take longer than normal to come to a complete stop.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2017-04-14 06:33:52 UTC

I see. Thanks.

My understanding is if you only hit 'Stop' when coming out of a station, you have 30 seconds of invulnerability.

So if I want to peek my head out to see what's happening, I can do that. Assuming I can keep from exiting the docking perimeter on a short undock.

Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#4 - 2017-04-14 14:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
If you're talking about a regular station, then you shouldn't need mods to stop within the docking perimeter (unless it's one of the handful of kickout stations in which you're already beyond the docking perimeter the moment you exit). I'm fairly certain that's true for citadels as well. I've never explicitly tested it with a fast ship but I don't recall ever having an issue.

Edit: After trying this on a few different stations in a fast Atron, there do appear to be some stations that won't allow you to stop within the docking perimeter if you're in a very fast ship. If you're in one of those stations, then an undock bookmark would probably be the way to go. Or get a larger ship that undocks at a slower speed. I had success getting a Drake to stop at stations in which my Atron couldn't. Even if you can't stop, by the time a larger ship drifts outside the docking perimeter, your 30 sec invulnerability timer would likely be up anyway.
mkint
#5 - 2017-04-14 14:11:37 UTC
You do NOT decelerate at the same rate as you accelerate. They are two separate processes, and acceleration happens at a much faster rate. The fastest way to stop moving is to throw your engines into reverse... approach the opposite direction of your movement, so that you have both deceleration and acceleration working for you. Knowing this tidbit can also help you align faster through manual piloting.

I don't recall ever doing a test to see if inertia modifier affects deceleration, but I imagine it does. It would be an easy test. Jump in an industrial fit with a bunch of plates leaving 1 slot empty for an istab. Test time from ctrl space to 0m/s with and without the istab. (If you do a test, let us know here, it would be good to have that info parked in the brain.)

imo, the best way to "peek your head out" is to use undock bookmarks. That invulnerability starts counting when your ship spawns in space, not when you load the scene... so you never know how much time you actually have, and then if things are unsafe all you can really do is dock back up, or at best go to an undock bookmark. Might as well just bounce off a bookmark to begin with, especially since it can also help you have a quicker align to your destination.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.

Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#6 - 2017-04-14 16:27:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
mkint wrote:
You do NOT decelerate at the same rate as you accelerate. They are two separate processes, and acceleration happens at a much faster rate.


This does not appear to be correct based on statements published by CCP and my own experiments. CCP has previously stated that "Deceleration is simply acceleration in a direction opposed to the one you are travelling in, i.e. 'braking'." As a result, they only publish acceleration formulas because you're meant to invert them for deceleration at subwarp speeds. Acceleration and deceleration at warp speeds do seem to operate with different formulas for playability and performance reasons (an effort to limit how quickly fast warping ships appear on grid) but that doesn't apply here since they're distinct from the subwarp formulas.

Here's another link to an EVE math and physics blog that also confirms it. Specifically, "Acceleration and deceleration exhibit symmetric dynamics (i.e. they have the same time-constant). Unlike driving a car, the mechanism for both acceleration and deceleration motion in EVE are the same." That blog post is a bit old but there's no indication that subwarp mechanics have changed (unlike warp mechanics that changed with Rubicon).

You can easily confirm this through testing - preferably with a larger ship since things happen a little slower. I used a Drake. Technically, it takes an infinitely long time to reach true top speed and true zero velocity, so I simply used the rounded values registered on the display. From a dead stop to max velocity took exactly the same amount of time as max velocity to dead stop. I also checked the values between 10% to 90% of max velocity and 25% to 75% with the same result.

A ship accelerates to about 90% relatively quickly and likewise decelerates to about 10% relatively quickly. The last 10% on each end happens much slower because CCP uses a fluid dynamics model instead of a classical physics model. That's also what leads to your perception that acceleration is faster - you're rarely looking at your display waiting for that last little bit of max speed, but you do sometimes watch your gauges waiting for your speed to drop to zero. The reality is that they're happening at the same rate and they're both happening slowly.


mkint wrote:
The fastest way to stop moving is to throw your engines into reverse... approach the opposite direction of your movement, so that you have both deceleration and acceleration working for you. Knowing this tidbit can also help you align faster through manual piloting.


I don't think this is true either. If you reverse direction, your ship doesn't spin on its axis and apply power - it turns in a smooth arc based on its agility and speed modifiers. The only time your ship spins on it's axis is when you're at a dead stop (though technically it has no direction at a stop since the flight model relies on vectors). There might possibly be some edge cases in which the act of turning a small agile ship under certain conditions bleeds your speed at a greater rate than standard deceleration, but I haven't tested it and I can't find any explanation of turning mechanics that supports it. However, in the OP's case, such a maneuver would terminate the invulnerability timer anyway, so that wouldn't work here regardless.

And to the OP's question then...yes - anything that impacts agility affects acceleration and deceleration equally since they use the same formulas.
Ageanal Olerie
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2017-04-15 06:33:27 UTC

Thanks for all the help.

Did a little experimenting and confirmed that you can indeed stop quicker using Inertial Stabalizers.

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2017-04-17 06:37:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
deleted
Kathern Aurilen
#9 - 2017-04-21 16:45:28 UTC
Ageanal Olerie wrote:

I see. Thanks.

My understanding is if you only hit 'Stop' when coming out of a station, you have 30 seconds of invulnerability.

So if I want to peek my head out to see what's happening, I can do that. Assuming I can keep from exiting the docking perimeter on a short undock.


30 seconds? I thought it was 30 seconds OR if you give ur ship some kind of order.

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Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#10 - 2017-04-21 17:51:51 UTC
Kathern Aurilen wrote:

30 seconds? I thought it was 30 seconds OR if you give ur ship some kind of order.


That's correct, but the stop command is the one exception to that rule. At east the only one that I've heard of.