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Production - What to Build?

Author
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#1 - 2017-04-04 19:12:06 UTC
o7

Hello friendly forum readers. William Ormono here, back again with more questions about how to get rich quick. My focus has recently (like an hour ago) turned to production, as it is another activity that I’ve heard can facilitate the making of semi-passive (mostly passive) ISK.

To date, I’ve had almost no exposure to production in New Eden. I’ve made some ISK building/selling the odd faction mod from a BPC that I found for cheap in a contract, but that’s about it.

Is anyone aware of any generic products that are always in need and that can be produced for a profit? I’m not actually looking to get rich quick (joking earlier), and would be happy finding an industry that allows for a 3-5% return per week above and beyond the cost of the materials/station fees for that same week.

As an example, I heard in the past (2012 maybe) that fuel block production was a profitable endeavour as the blocks were in high demand and the cost of the materials / station fees was less than the selling cost (hence, profit).

I’m not looking for anyone to reveal their trade secrets here. I’m just such a production noob that I don’t even know if there are general items people typically deal in. Any and all advice is greatly appreciated (provided it is constructive).

Thanks all!
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#2 - 2017-04-04 21:04:24 UTC
There are lots of things you can build profitably but you'll need to invest some time studying the market to find them. I'll give 1 example that I've been using to illustrate my point when this question is asked for over a year and it's still very profitable. The Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I rig. Build cost is 24,000 ISK, selling price in Jita is 44,000 ISK - daily volume is 33,000 units. If you sell in a smaller hub like Dodixie, they are currently selling for 64,000 ISK.

Those are pretty good profit margins by anyone's standard. They require shield rigging skill to build so Caldari and Minmatar Alpha clones can build them.

This product is not unique there are lots of others if you invest the effort to find them.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#3 - 2017-04-04 21:23:26 UTC
A fuel block print run for two weeks requires about 1.6-1.8 bil to put in the oven but returns about 445-470mil, so that's not bad. So yeah, such items are out there for sure.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#4 - 2017-04-05 08:59:26 UTC
Don't let the trading tools discourage you. Always take a seond look. Most of those calculations are Jita based. Some stuff isn't profitable in Forge but very profitable in other regions because the input may be cheaper there and/or you can sell the output for a better price.
Zanar Skwigelf
Wormhoppers Inc.
#5 - 2017-04-05 15:20:13 UTC
William Ormono wrote:
o7
Is anyone aware of any generic products that are always in need and that can be produced for a profit?


In Jita production is not need based. Its only about what you want to build, and the cost / profit associated with it.

If you are more interested in meeting the needs of the locals, you will find yourself manufacturing and selling "far" from Jita. Whether its a different trade hub, a mission hub in high/low, or a null alliance's staging. Figuring out the need is difficult, but usually more profitable because you don't have a hard cap on price like Jita.
Kaivarian Coste
Whale Patrol
#6 - 2017-04-05 15:40:05 UTC
Rigs out near low sec regions are always popular. They can't be refitted from a ship, only destroyed, so they're more of a consumable.
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#7 - 2017-04-05 16:54:49 UTC  |  Edited by: William Ormono
Great ideas here! Big thanks for that! It's reassuring to hear there at least a few items with healthy margins between production costs and selling costs Smile

I'm hoping to use my Jita trading alt for the majority of the production. I also not familiar with any good staging systems, or where they are located. For these reasons, I'll likely be doing most of my trading in The Forge (unless I find a juicy market and can establish a reliable supply chain).

Maybe I'll do a little research and see if I can find a good staging system - I do like the idea of supplying those who need it instead of just piling more products into an already crammed Jita market. I'm guessing there are probably some pretty good FW staging areas either in or close to HS, so that might be a good place to start.

Thanks again everyone! You guys are awesome!!!
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2017-04-05 23:50:26 UTC
I recommend stuff that everybody uses, even yourself.

Avoid the niche stuff. Example: smartbombs, tracking disruptors, etc.

Stuff that is more likely to be destroyed also has higher trade volumes, especially stuff that more than one unit of is fitted. Example: turrets have a higher volume than target painters.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#9 - 2017-04-06 07:58:20 UTC
I do some popular rigs. The margins are OK-ish but even at smaller hubs the 0,01 ISK war is tedious. It smells like automated input and scripts in some cases to me.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#10 - 2017-04-06 08:32:13 UTC
The .01 ISK game is purely voluntary. OK if you enjoy it. Otherwise, study the market cycle using the market history tab, list your product in the top half of the cycle and forget about it - it will sell but could take a while. Generally it will snap back fairly quickly once the .01 ISK players push the price below cost.
William Ormono
Reason Will Prevail
#11 - 2017-04-06 12:28:35 UTC
I'm sure there is no one answer to this question, but how long are the typical market cycles and how much do they fluctuate?

I've reviewed the history for no shortage of items and I can't seem to find a clear cycle that applies to all of them. Some items have HUGE up and down swings over the course of several months - Would these be "cycles" or are they caused by changes in the meta?

And how much of a swing do most products typically have. Are the low swings half the price of the high swings, or a much smaller margin?

Again - I'm guessing the answers will be item specific and not the same across the board, so I'm not expecting a very useful answer, but maybe someone will surprise me. If I don't ask I'll never know Blink
Zanar Skwigelf
Wormhoppers Inc.
#12 - 2017-04-06 13:44:41 UTC
William Ormono wrote:
I'm guessing the answers will be item specific


Answered your own question. There is some meta pull, but it is usually limited to very specific cases (ex: strontium demand goes up just before a big null sec war)
Mukali
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2017-04-06 19:36:56 UTC
I found the two best ways to make a profit with production is build something that has a high barrier to entry or is rare. The third best way is produce widely used consumables as others have mentioned.

I used to make T2 light drones from invented BPCs I made and buy the materials direct from Jita, making it in Jita, and selling it - was making a few hundred thousand profit per drone. All from the station.

The second route, scarcity, is more a big group thing. Join a corp out in nullsec. Build basic things everyone will need, from doctrine ships to strip miners. If you're the only seller you can set higher prices, but obviously don't go crazy on it as they are your buddies. Establish yourself as the go-to guy to build things and over time you'll be pumping out capitals for a waiting list of buyers.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2017-04-06 19:40:25 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
William Ormono wrote:
I'm guessing the answers will be item specific


Answered your own question. There is some meta pull, but it is usually limited to very specific cases (ex: strontium demand goes up just before a big null sec war)


There's also some pretty rampant market manipulation on some precursors. Hint: watch robotics and stockpile when they're cheap.
KenFlorian
Knight Odds
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#15 - 2017-04-11 12:07:35 UTC  |  Edited by: KenFlorian
William,

As you correctly note, "What to build?" is the essential question. The cost of raw materials, the sale process, system index etc, are the necessary but rudimentary inputs to profitability. The most rigorous answer to how to answer your question was provided by SJ Astralana in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6680425#post6680425

SJ has taken his leave of the game and the tool he built, Eve Production Manager. The code is still available on GitHub and I was able to make it work locally. It is a master work of C# code. One need not use his tool but the critical element is this:

"...the limiting factor [to profitability] is the number of items that can be produced in a day multiplied by their profit. The maximum factor is the daily average volume multiplied by profit, divided by active competitors. The lessor of the two will tell a producer what to build, and what BPOs to research. Every factor is available through CREST. Advanced concepts include managing capital, logistics, and price change strategies."

In other words, one might find items that sell at 50% profit....and sell rarely. Or, one might find items that sell at 15% profit and sell every day, at high volume. Knowing which to build is the output of SJ's narrative above.

Ken