These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Crime & Punishment

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Burn Jita - Safety for Alphas on the way?

Author
Ariztotle
Bandits Incorporated
#1 - 2017-02-24 22:40:13 UTC
So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand.

Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen?
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#2 - 2017-02-24 23:21:07 UTC
Ariztotle wrote:
So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand.

Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen?

Burn jita is an annual tradition. They do it every year and frankly it's just good content for everybody involved. I seriously doubt anybody will have a knee jerk reaction to it

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Ariztotle
Bandits Incorporated
#3 - 2017-02-24 23:53:03 UTC
The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#4 - 2017-02-25 00:15:00 UTC
Ariztotle wrote:
The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it
What's the issue? Burn Jita happens once a year, it's not like there are armies of Alpha alts ganking on the scale of Burn Jita every day.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#5 - 2017-02-25 00:20:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ariztotle wrote:
The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it
What's the issue? Burn Jita happens once a year, it's not like there are armies of Alpha alts ganking on the scale of Burn Jita every day.


You don't understand though there is right now thus it's an epidemic

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#6 - 2017-02-25 01:51:28 UTC
I would say, wait and see. Alphas are limited to their skill sets and the ability to run on a single computer (in theory, tech savvy can work around that). This is going to be a test of the impact (good or bad) of the Alpha.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Ariztotle
Bandits Incorporated
#7 - 2017-02-25 07:17:46 UTC
Fair enough burn juts is only once a year but it is still a pretty major incident of abuse of Alpha clones. Many billions of isk getting destroyed. And if people see this sort of thing working successfully this weekend then chances are it will be used more frequently.
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy
Dead Terrorists
#8 - 2017-02-25 07:54:29 UTC
Ariztotle wrote:
Fair enough burn juts is only once a year but it is still a pretty major incident of abuse of Alpha clones. Many billions of isk getting destroyed. And if people see this sort of thing working successfully this weekend then chances are it will be used more frequently.

It was already happening before Alpha Clone states, using throwaway secondary/tertiary account alts, or even Mains.

What's new?

It makes no difference.

Thus there is no abuse.
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2017-02-25 07:56:16 UTC
Use and abuse are different things.
I don't see how the alphas are going to make a significant difference, to be honest... other than letting some folks who would not otherwise participate enjoy the festivities.
Or are you suggesting that alpha characters be denied access to types of gameplay within their skillset simply because they're not paying accounts?

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Clockwork Robot
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2017-02-25 12:44:53 UTC
Ariztotle wrote:
So CCP said a while back that suicide ganking with Alphas shouldnt be much of a problem and they were keeping the option turning Safetys On for Alphas if there was a lot of abuse or ganking got out of hand.

Does the fact that the Goons are now doing this on a fairly large scale by using disposable cost-free and consequence-free Alpha alts in the latest Burn Jita mean this is now likely going to happen?




There. Right there, that's the issue here.
You just knowingly and publicly outed yourself as not only being completely aware of Burn Jita as an event, but you went even further, and identified ways in which the annual event is going to be perforned.


So. We established that you are in full posession of the facts.

And you want CCP to do something for you.


Well, I'll take care of this one for you, Ariztotle.

If you want to not lose ships during this event, if you want to show your frustration with this event, if you wish to reduce your chances of being disrupted in any way during this event...

Dont. Log. In.

Its so very easy. Play another game. Let CCP do CCP. You do you. Or hell. Log in and ship-spin while chatting. Talk to your would be gankers, while safely invulnerable.


Take grown-up, adult measures.
Don't whine for "halp".
Zarek Kree
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#11 - 2017-02-25 14:31:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Given that Burn Jita has been happening annually for a long time, I don't really see how anything is different now with Alpha clones. They used to use newly minted trial accounts to suicide gank. In fact, I'd argue that alpha clones make it harder than it was under trial accounts because you're limited in what skills you can train. With 2+ weeks of unlimited training on a trial account you could get a much stronger gank alt than you can with an alpha clone.

If CCP was okay with it before, I don't see any reason why they'd suddenly stop allowing it. Nothing has changed. Besides, I kind of get a kick out of it. I think most people do.
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2017-02-25 17:09:03 UTC
Ariztotle wrote:
The issue isnt with Burn Jita itself, its with the use of free Alpha alts to carry out the ganking during it



..Stop being a prude.
BJBee 9999
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2017-02-26 02:46:26 UTC
meh. i alpha, and i burned a little piece of jita. is ok i tell you.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#14 - 2017-02-26 03:42:18 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
Use and abuse are different things.

Spoken like a true drinker.

Bottom's up mate!

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Msgerbs
The Ronin Wind
Aegis Militia
#15 - 2017-02-26 19:26:00 UTC
The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking.
Tsutomi Sakuma
Antimatter Delivery Systems
#16 - 2017-02-27 06:57:27 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Given that Burn Jita has been happening annually for a long time, I don't really see how anything is different now with Alpha clones. They used to use newly minted trial accounts to suicide gank. In fact, I'd argue that alpha clones make it harder than it was under trial accounts because you're limited in what skills you can train. With 2+ weeks of unlimited training on a trial account you could get a much stronger gank alt than you can with an alpha clone.

If CCP was okay with it before, I don't see any reason why they'd suddenly stop allowing it. Nothing has changed. Besides, I kind of get a kick out of it. I think most people do.


Nail, meet hammer. Pirate
YeuxVerts Belle
Danger Zone.
Brave Collective
#17 - 2017-02-27 07:51:38 UTC
Msgerbs wrote:
The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking.


I was tempted to join the goons there with my main. I don't care about sec status nor killrights, since i live in nullsec. What would i have to lose?

The above message presents my opinions on the topic at hand. If there is a conflict between my views and reality, consider reality to be correct until proven otherwise.

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#18 - 2017-02-27 08:33:54 UTC
YeuxVerts Belle wrote:
Msgerbs wrote:
The only potential issue I see with this is that using an alpha means you don't need to care about sec status, etc. If they're just rerolling brand new alphas every year then I think it would fall under similar rules as biomassing characters to lose negative sec status. If they're just creating alphas that they use only for ganking and nothing else, I don't see the problem. It's basically the same as creating another character used only for ganking.


I was tempted to join the goons there with my main. I don't care about sec status nor killrights, since i live in nullsec. What would i have to lose?

Your Pride

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Salah ad-Din al-Jawahiri
Dreamweb Industries
#19 - 2017-02-27 09:32:30 UTC
I fail to see a problem here, to be honest. As it was mentioned previously, Burn Jita wasn't remarkable for the use of apha clones. It's the sheer number of people involved that has made it possible. You don't see 200 to 300 characters on a single gank every day. Anyone who's taken at least one step beyond being a lowly F1 grunt knows that it's a big pain in the ass to rally such a large mass of people and make them do what you want them to do for a long enough period of time, especially when most of those people aren't accustomed to the given type of activity, like highsec ganking. Entities like Spectre Fleet could also organize a 300-man op with alpha characters and just roam the galaxy in free disposable ships, kicking ass wholesale (and I suppose, they did), but no one would complain that alphas are disposable and imbalanced in that instance. It's a matter of perception, really.

Besides, it's very important to mention that alphas can't be multiboxed, not without breaking the EULA, at least. It means that whoever signed up for Burn Jita with an alpha had to sacrifice a lot, dedicating their entire EVE time to the event. They couldn't rat or mine at the same time, only gank. Neither did they have any financial incentive (none that I'm aware of, at least), the killmails and the memories of "being there when Jita burned" being their reward.

We professional gankers don't use alphas in our everyday activities, since we rely heavily on multiboxing to scout and loot and don't have the numbers to make any significant use of the crappy T1 DPS more often than not. Being one of the people responsible for CODE.'s recruitment efforts, I have observed that the majority of alphas coming to us are either brand-new players or someone who's decided to try something new in EVE. After we show them how to gank, they either bring in subbed chracters or get filtered out, because the entry barrier into the trade of gankng is relatively high.

To sum up, Burn Jita has had a tremendous effect on the community, and threadnoughts like this one are yet another testimony of it. However, the success of the event can only be attributed to the gank fleets' FCs and all the players who've helped to build and deliver the ganking gear and bring together massive numbers of participants. Those people are truly gods among men.

Agent of the New Order

Live by the Code - die by the Code.

The Voice of Highsec

Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries
VOID Intergalactic Forces
#20 - 2017-02-27 11:55:21 UTC
hey why not, goons have said if they can break something, it will be done.

ie look at drones and heavy missiles. also what are other things they broke?

"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith

123Next page