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Realy Upset on the Leadership Skills Training

Author
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#1 - 2017-01-23 19:01:56 UTC  |  Edited by: VKMceo
Sorry been away from my Fav GAME of ALL TIME for to long. But here is why I am upset about the Leadership Skills change. I am the Ceo of a very small corp in the game and have trained on certain AVATARS these skills in the areas of combat and mining. Did this cause as a small corp we don't own an Cap ships or the cap mining ships. So the bonuses of fleeting my AVATARS does not apply and being in a small corp these skill sets are now useless to me and have no meaning to Fleet mining or Fleet mission running. this Blows and would Like to see the bonuses back as they were even in full skilled tiny to compared with the bonuses of cap ship and industrial ships bonuses when alone or with the Fleet ops. Again u killed the little guys right to these Bonuses and that sucks.TwistedTwistedEvilEvilCryCry
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#2 - 2017-01-23 19:53:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
VKMceo wrote:
Sorry been away from my Fav GAME of ALL TIME for to long. But here is why I am upset about the Leadership Skills change. I am the Ceo of a very small corp in the game and have trained on certain AVATARS these skills in the areas of combat and mining. Did this cause as a small corp we don't own an Cap ships or the cap mining ships. So the bonuses of fleeting my AVATARS does not apply and being in a small corp these skill sets are now useless to me and have no meaning to Fleet mining or Fleet mission running. this Blows and would Like to see the bonuses back as they were even in full skilled tiny to compared with the bonuses of cap ship and industrial ships bonuses when alone or with the Fleet ops. Again u killed the little guys right to these Bonuses and that sucks.TwistedTwistedEvilEvilCryCry

Erm ... the bonuses work the same for all ships, including sub-capitals.

Not only can every battlecruiser / command ship fit command bursts (unchanged), but so can command destroyers (introduced Dec 2015). T3 can still fit bursts, too.

For a small mining corp, the Porpoise (introduced Nov 2016) is the perfect mining booster when an Orca isn't available.

There are more boosting options now than before.

Plus, there are skill extractors and injectors shoul you really want to get rid of skills, or re-arrange skill points.


Example: My boosting alt is still boosting in missions using an Eos, adding DPS with his drones, and doing some remote-repping too. When I'm mining, he's in an Orca giving mining and shield bonuses. I'm a solo player with 4 subscribed accounts + Alpha account.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#3 - 2017-01-23 20:26:02 UTC
That is just it I have mining barges not the other stuff and i should not have to get a ship to fit some mod that the new skill setis bonus-ed for .
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#4 - 2017-01-23 20:32:04 UTC
All I would like to do is what i trained the skills for and that is to fly out in my mining barges Fleet up my guys get the bonus and mine and haul. That is why i spent millions in SP for and that is what i would like it to do. not have to buy some ship and have to skill it up and get a mod that i should not have to need as i am not a null sec Corp.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2017-01-23 21:56:07 UTC
The Porpoise is not a nulsec ship. It would be perfect for you. It costs about 70 million ISK, about the same as a battlecruiser.

Yes, there is no-longer a "free lunch". You have to use a burst module to get a bonus.

However, it is a good change.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#6 - 2017-01-23 22:59:19 UTC
Your really don't get it I can't use that ship in mining in the mission rooms and a cap ship is for Null sec mining gangs i just want what i had the reg bonuses for the Fleeting to missions and reg mining or mission mining. That Wont Work for what I do.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#7 - 2017-01-23 23:42:37 UTC
First Not good change as the Bursting mods are now what u need for a Bonus all this did now is take the little bonus that us that did not want to sit and/or fly a Capital Ship as it took such a long time to study up the skills for it to lose out on the lower end of of the bonus. Now then u said Free lunch no more it was not free to begin with as I had to put the time in to study these skill and for that propose and buy the skills so not free. second Alphas cant even study these sets f skills so NOT GOOD FOR ANY REASON.
Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
#8 - 2017-01-24 06:32:09 UTC
VKMceo wrote:
. second Alphas cant even study these sets f skills so NOT GOOD FOR ANY REASON.


Could Alphas ever train those skills? I think the answer is no so your point is moot.

Quote:
First Not good change as the Bursting mods are now what u need for a Bonus all this did now is take the little bonus that us that did not want to sit and/or fly a Capital Ship


You don't need a Capital ship, there are only a tiny few Cap ships that can do any sort of boosting and yet there are more cheap sub cap boosting ships than ever before.

Quote:
Your really don't get it I can't use that ship in mining in the mission rooms and a cap ship is for Null sec mining gangs i just want what i had the reg bonuses for the Fleeting to missions and reg mining or mission mining. That Wont Work for what I do.


You can use a Porpoise or Orca for mining, it boosts other miners (perfect for a FC like you) and it can mine with drones (very big bonuses) so you can have your cake and eat it. Your fellow miners are better than ever before (way better than 10% Yield) and you get your ore too. As a Bonus they are tanky as hell, cap rep your fleet and have huge ore holds.

As for missions, a battle cruiser or command ship can add DPS while boosting in a mission. They also happen to be able to tank almost any mission especially with other DPS on field.

Hell the bonuses from the old skills are almost insignificant for missions and very limited for mining, on the other hand command boosts add huge bonuses.

Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#9 - 2017-01-24 13:04:37 UTC
I used to multibox 2 Skiffs - 1 character had a mindlink for 15% boost. It was a very nice system but the world changed. My choice, and yours, is adapt or die.

Porpoise + skiff mines almost as much and costs less plus fewer trips to unload. Try it on Singularity. In the long run, all that matters is a level playing field. Do the changes give anyone a major advantage. People flying Orca and Rorqual must now expose them to risk- no more AFK pilot hiding behind a POS forcefield boosting the entire system so the new balance isn't bad.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#10 - 2017-01-24 19:34:21 UTC
VKMceo wrote:
Your really don't get it I can't use that ship in mining in the mission rooms and a cap ship is for Null sec mining gangs i just want what i had the reg bonuses for the Fleeting to missions and reg mining or mission mining. That Wont Work for what I do.

Porpoise is not a capital ship. You are confusing it with the Rorqual.

The Porpoise is a small sub-capital.

I can get a much larger Orca into mission deadspaces with acceleration gates, though I find traversing between gates takes a very long time.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#11 - 2017-01-25 05:48:15 UTC
Okay did some research as all of your points are valid and concise. But here is why I am STILL upset for the loss of the little Bonuses that the Leadership skills brought to us.
1. for us that don't fly missions in BC or bigger its a loss.
2. this was a good recruiting tool for new players and to help them with game knowledge
3. I was always on the side of getting new players to get in the game for a good amount of time.(I.E.Subscribe)
4. As in most cases that I would Fleet up was to Fly in Missions of lower LVLs.(I.E. level 1 or maybe a 2)

So to do this now is pointless most the lower level missions wont let u fly in a BC let alone a Capital Industrial Ship from ORE like the Porpoise. So now how do we let the little guy like myself and others out of the pittance of boost from these skills and to not gain from them. To fit the mods for Burst Boosting u must have a BC or bigger ship(and the skills to use it). And I never had a Mindlink.

Leadership LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' targeting speed.
Armored Warfare LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' armor hit points.
Information Warfare LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' targeting range.
Siege Warfare LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' shield capacity.
Skirmish Warfare LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' agility.
Mining Foreman LVL V Grants a 10% bonus to fleet members' mining yield.

So when i say Null sec mining what i meant was the big corp miners and gangs that would rip down belts in 3 hrs with all the goodies not only from the Pittance of boost from these skills but the Mindlinks and ship Warfare mods and suck from full on Skilled out mining gangs and LVL 3 and up missions rippers.

N ow the skills I studied for and and spent all the ISK on buying no longer can help me and my little corp of Mission Running/Salvage training/Mission Miners.
And i would like to know how u would call that a FREE LUNCH.


P.S. Losing these will now not let me help the New pilots that I would like to not only join in the game fully, but that had not great skills sets yet and ship fits yet to get though a LVL 1 Mission let alone a LVL 2 mission with out giving them some bit of help by Fleeting up.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#12 - 2017-01-25 08:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Gregorius Goldstein
You are making this up on the fly, aren't you? Level one and two missions used do be done in fleets (more than higher level missions) because of the leadership bonuses? People joined coprs because of the passive bonuses?

Here is my guess: Your (almost) solo playstyle got a small nerf and you want the bonus back, I totally understand that. The new changes encourage pilots to join fleets with active boosters instead of relying on passive boosts (from your own alt). Go with it or not, but can't I follow the "boosts are/were a thing in low level missions" stuff.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#13 - 2017-01-25 15:39:44 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
You are making this up on the fly, aren't you? Level one and two missions used do be done in fleets (more than higher level missions) because of the leadership bonuses? People joined coprs because of the passive bonuses?

Here is my guess: Your (almost) solo playstyle got a small nerf and you want the bonus back, I totally understand that. The new changes encourage pilots to join fleets with active boosters instead of relying on passive boosts (from your own alt). Go with it or not, but can't I follow the "boosts are/were a thing in low level missions" stuff.



Yeah i had Alternate accounts but i could not fly them on the same computer it was a dino then and is now in t he Museum of technology Called the door stop wing. I could not even play the one account at time with out losing socket many times as even try the 3 I had. And were talking frigs and destro 's at most not Cruisers or anything above that. I was Flying in NOOB town Algog so not even in any deap ore or or even all roid belt space. My first AVATAR did have a Barg but no bigger then that and i my self was not long from being the noob in EVE. Back then Noobs were alot more lost then today but i get it you just want us to get in the BC's or higher to use these skills but 10% armour boost to a frig is Pittance and 10%to ( no dedicated mining frig like the Venture) mining yeild is Pittance you all bring up the ships we were working to get to and the mods we would like to have. Back then these were well out our ISK range. But all of you still want to complain about a very valid point that i made.

I get it the Rouq sitting afk **** is not cool but how does this have anything to do with the fact that the skills themselves for some were enough to get just that little bit more out of the game. To help us the little guys get to be Big guys. Every comment to this post has nothing but the fact that your all wanting us to get to the point of having the big ships . yeah i had one mining barge and yeah I would fleet up with a few noobs but this was not in any way an exploit to the game as your all implying and making this up on o the fly your very funny cause EVE use to be not so Noob friendly. Also my post may get some confusion in them well cant help that I am trying to get in here and be Serious and lose the thought cause my Kids/Wife/Dog interrupt my thought process.


So there u go now i have to be done with this post Because you BIG FISH dont want the Little Fish to Get to be a BIG FISH.
Gregorius Goldstein
Queens of the Drone Age
#14 - 2017-01-25 16:54:08 UTC
VKMceo wrote:

So there u go now i have to be done with this post Because you BIG FISH dont want the Little Fish to Get to be a BIG FISH.


Only ore ship I fly is a Venture with T2 gas harvesters. I use it for short trips into wormholes. I bought a couple of Gilas with the WH gas and think they totaly rock. I have no clue what kind of fisch I am, but I am quite happy with it.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
Superior Eve Engineering
#15 - 2017-01-25 17:20:41 UTC
VKMceo wrote:
P.S. Losing these will now not let me help the New pilots that I would like to not only join in the game fully, but that had not great skills sets yet and ship fits yet to get though a LVL 1 Mission let alone a LVL 2 mission with out giving them some bit of help by Fleeting up.


I read what you wrote and to be honest I'm a little shocked by the idea of actually helping people in lvl 1 and lvl 2 missions. The missions themselves are very easy even for someone who has only been playing the game a day or two. They would only need to know how to do three things, target the hostile and the button to push to fire at the target and the icon to press to orbit the target. Boredom isnt really a factor either as you can probably get to lvl 3 missions within 2 or 3 days depending on how many hours you put in.

now if it was lvl 3 or higher I can understand the need for players grouping up as this can be difficult for new players especially when they dont have the skills or even a decent ship to actually do the mission.

as for boosting i think the changes were good at least for the reason of making it clear to those who pvp when they fight a particular person that they are not always getting boosts from a safespot or pos.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#16 - 2017-01-26 20:51:00 UTC
After reading through the whole thing, all I can think of is Shocked.

@Tau: I admire your patience. o7

Remove standings and insurance.

Andrew Indy
Jedran Space Services
#17 - 2017-01-27 06:55:00 UTC
Quote:
Capital Industrial Ship from ORE like the Porpoise


its a battlecrusier not a capital ship, its cost like 70mil. even an Orca is not a Capital ship in the strict scene as it uses battleship Mods / Rigs, has access to HS, cant Jump ect.

Quote:
10% armour boost to a frig is Pittance and 10%to ( no dedicated mining frig like the Venture) mining yeild is Pittance you all bring up the ships we were working to get to and the mods we would like to have. Back then these were well out our ISK range.


The boosts from command boost modules can be way more than 10%, They also stack in many cases . Like resistances as well as rep rate/cap usage result in huge bonuses.

Also the boost from the passive skills are not very good for missions, most mission rely on active tanks and 10% more buffer is not really than much of a bonus (if you are that close to dying then you are having bigger issues), Also Targeting speed ect is nice but hardly critical for the frigs and destroyers that noobs fly.

Quote:
To fit the mods for Burst Boosting u must have a BC or bigger ship(and the skills to use it)


There are command destroyers now, should be able to get into almost all missions and don't cost a huge amount.
VKMceo
Viking Mining Salvage and Security
#18 - 2017-01-27 20:23:23 UTC  |  Edited by: VKMceo
Okay Here we Go.

1.The passive Skills Range for Boosting Should have been nerfed to like the Asteroid belt (30 kilometers) and the mission room( I.E. the dedicate Mission space). I get it the SYSTEM wide Boosting was kinda Dumb.( I never had myself more then a few kilometers away from the PPL I was fleeting with.)

2.Ships for the new system of Burst boosting I.E. the Porpoise is a Command Industrial ship(My Bad). But its still a BC.The Command Destroyer's are T2 ships. So this is still not what were talking about.

3. This was for my corp( 5 whole Members x3 of them My Avatars) was a way to weed out potential spy's( for Many of my Friends Larger Player Corps) and to Help NOOBs with game choices(I.E. joining a corp/being a solo mission runner/Mining rules and safety/salvaging techniques) . My small corp was started because back in the 2007/08 days we did not have better NOOB help and I had ties to Bigger Player Corps that would refer potential new members to my corp. This was a tool I used for getting NOOBs to Join many Larger Player Corps after a brief stint with our small operation. With this small Boosting that the Passive side gave in those times, New players would be amazed at the Gift on the effects of the ship they flew.(Now were talking about ships that were mining boosted skills for them like the Navitas(and other standard frigs and destro's.)) THERE WERE NO DEDICATED MINING FRIGS(I.E. the Venture).


4. Helping in this way gave the new players some hope of the game being something they were going to pay a monthly Script for(As a Script player was what the corps wanted and not a Trial player) as many new players were not liking the gank gangs in the mining belts on miners in low skilled ships( I.E.the Navitas). A 14 day Trial was also not long enough for the new guys to get in mining barges let alone a good skilled Cruiser.(Also Trial accounts could not even get a LVL 1 Skill in Industrial they were very limited in skills studies.)

5. Now the only good i get out of the Leadership skills is the Fleeting option and in fleet VOIP as its better to gain info Talking to them then to type it. This also was advantageous for the Weeding out potential Spy's.



6. Now that we have all this NEW tech in game, It is all good, and the Alpha Program really limits my Recruiting set. But it is all good I don't have the contacts with larger Corps any more and the TUTS are a bit better(not much but better). But At least I did not complain about losing the LEARNING SKILLS.(I.E. potential +10 to all Attributes on the Avatar through skills and not Implants.)

SO I HOPE THIS CLARIFIES My point on the loss.


ALSO I was Playing EVE on a Dinosaur of a PC (Dell Dimension 8800 W/Hyper Threaded Core) and this could not handle a Multi-boxing Technique as i can today on the more modern Comp i have now.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#19 - 2017-01-29 01:06:18 UTC
Gregorius Goldstein wrote:
Only ore ship I fly is a Venture with T2 gas harvesters. I use it for short trips into wormholes. I bought a couple of Gilas with the WH gas and think they totaly rock. I have no clue what kind of fisch I am, but I am quite happy with it.


you, my good Sir, are a happy *fisch*. Happy fisch, best fisch. Happy fisch = winning at EVE.

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#20 - 2017-01-29 01:08:18 UTC
VKMceo wrote:
1.The passive Skills Range for Boosting Should have been nerfed to like the Asteroid belt (30 kilometers) and the mission room( I.E. the dedicate Mission space). I get it the SYSTEM wide Boosting was kinda Dumb.( I never had myself more then a few kilometers away from the PPL I was fleeting with.).

VKMceo wrote:
.( I never had myself more then a few kilometers away from the PPL I was fleeting with.).


soooo, there's no problem then?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

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