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Which Marauder is best for L4 missions?

Author
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#1 - 2017-01-23 01:44:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Requis
I am thinking about getting a marauder for my missioning. I hear a lot of good things about Vargur. I live near Dodoxie. I wanna stay in highsec, so I don't think capitals are an option. What do you guys say?
#2 - 2017-01-23 01:50:13 UTC
Into a bar walks a Minmitar warrior, an Amarrian priest, a Gallente colonel, and a Caldari test pilot....
O.U.Z.O. Alliance
#3 - 2017-01-23 01:53:02 UTC
MinmatarMasterRace Ik. What do you mission with?
#4 - 2017-01-23 02:32:56 UTC
paladin is great in amarr space, vargur/golem are both pretty good all around, kronos can do some crazy stuff with blasters. Dixie area I'd probably go with the kronos or vargur. If you really want a vargur get it. Personally I prefer the mach to the vargur but the vargur certainly has some advantages.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

#5 - 2017-01-23 09:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
Honestly, they're all pretty good. Once you get to this point you really can't go wrong with any of them. And yes, capitals are definitely not an option for high-sec.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#6 - 2017-01-23 10:01:15 UTC
I like the Vargur, but then I haven't really had the chance to try any of the others properly. It's one of the two most flexible along with the Golem. I even use a polarized one for blitzing a lv4 mission. Sure it's a 1bill ship to run a single mission but I kind of like the absurdity of it Bear

That said Marauders are not the best lv4 mission runners unless you plan on doing full clear + looting and salvaging or semi-AFK because RL reasons. Also learn to use and love the MJD. MJD is love, MJD is life.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Out of Sight.
#7 - 2017-01-23 13:56:39 UTC
if u mission smart u usually dont have insane amount of killing to do ...

i used Paladin in all spaces and it did pretty well. sniper tachyon fit with 2 prop mods (mwd mjd)

It wasnt cap stable cos i never need to perma rep, and it wasnt mission specific fited (selecting hardeners) because i was lasy.
And slowly when i got more and more used to it i started swaping tank for dps.

Never was in danger, and hardly used drones, shooting from 100+km frigates poped just nicely.

What i am saying unless u need to kill all 100% ships and salvage and stuff, difference isnt that BIG, so you can actually choose the one u like.

Opportunities multiply as they are seized.

#8 - 2017-01-23 14:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ion Kirst
My goto ship for L4s is the Golem.

I worked my way up from Raven, to CNR, to Golem. I even tried a Rattlesnake a few times.

With my latest Golem fit, it clears the field very fast. It's almost too easy. With missiles, I don't have to worry about being in range. Everything in the field is in range, and the damage gets applied very well too.

Don't have to show the fit, as it has been shown many times before.

This same question keeps getting asked over and over, maybe even about a couple of dozen times, in the last couple of years. Don't you guys ever do any searches? The information is out there, and literally has been beat to death.

I don't think you have all the skills to effectively get into any Marauder at this time anyway.

But good for you, even with less than a year under your belt, you're thinking of your future.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

#9 - 2017-01-23 15:27:30 UTC
This is simply a more focused version of the what is the best level 4 ship and the answer to this one is the same it depends on what you want and what you like.

I have flown and still do fly all 4 marauders and they all have advantages, they all have weaknesses. So I will answer the question this way if I had to choose just one to fly it would be the Golem because it has the most consistent killing ability across all of the NPC races. No I did not say and I do not mean fastest killing, I said and meant most consistent.

Anize Oramara wrote:
That said Marauders are not the best lv4 mission runners unless you plan on doing full clear + looting and salvaging or semi-AFK because RL reasons.

Why?
I can see this from a cost versus benefit point of view or if you want maximum efficiency when blitzing. For general mission running where you are doing a mixture of both blitz and full or partial clear the marauders are superior to everything else.

Anize Oramara wrote:
Also learn to use and love the MJD. MJD is love, MJD is life.

I will counter that with these points.
There is only one single mission related situation where the MJD is clearly superior to any other options and that is to escape if you are low on cap and cannot continue to tank the incoming damage for whatever reason. In any and all other situations there is no clear advantage to the MJD.
For those who blitz a MWD is usually superior because the multiple triangulated jumps can take more time than simply using MWD and flying directly towards where you need to be.
For those who prefer to full clear the MJD represents a wasted slot that could be used for more tank or a damage mod or damage application mod. In fact for many that full clear there is simply no need for a prop mod of any kind since you point at the exit and kill while moving along and usually you get there about the same time the last thing in the pocket dies.

If you like the MJD and want to use one, or simply fit it for that rare occasion where it may be useful then by all means put one on your ship.
#10 - 2017-01-23 16:27:07 UTC
Friend asked me to compare battleships in PVE some time ago, here is copy paste from that mail (most of them are being compared to pirate battleships which sport same weapon type)

Vargur - range is ok, damage is ok, somewhat selectable damage, ewar immunity comes great to keep your guns from being disrupted, lower dps then machariel, but larger range, very good choice

Paladin - really good choice, great ship, liked it a lot, still do, but... It is locked into doing EM damage with lasers... so it is not that effective as Vargur / Golem on damage selections. However, very happy with the ship in general when you need to kill amarr ships

Golem - this one is mixed. it has great range, great damage application to those battleships at 50 or more km. At around 55 km it starts doing more damage then Vargur or Machariel, but... it can't kill frigates fast :D With gunships, you split your guns and blap, Machariel in normal missions can take down 4 frigates every 3.6 seconds. With golem I was spending 14 seconds per one frigate, which is a pain.

Kronos - As other marauders, it is nice, EWAR immunity big plus. However, blasters lack range + it doesn't have Vindie bonus to webs, so you have to go rails which lack tracking on short range. So fit MJD or MWD, keep distance and fire. But then in comparison with other Vargur or Paladin, you are better off with one of them. Even though it does Thermal + Kinetic damage it means it has better damage then Paladin, but has lower DPS, so Paladin might actually be better choice. Great ship if you don't need to engage laser ships or minmatar ships.
#11 - 2017-01-23 17:00:22 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
There is only one single mission related situation where the MJD is clearly superior to any other options and that is to escape if you are low on cap and cannot continue to tank the incoming damage for whatever reason. In any and all other situations there is no clear advantage to the MJD.
For those who blitz a MWD is usually superior because the multiple triangulated jumps can take more time than simply using MWD and flying directly towards where you need to be.
For those who prefer to full clear the MJD represents a wasted slot that could be used for more tank or a damage mod or damage application mod. In fact for many that full clear there is simply no need for a prop mod of any kind since you point at the exit and kill while moving along and usually you get there about the same time the last thing in the pocket dies.

If you like the MJD and want to use one, or simply fit it for that rare occasion where it may be useful then by all means put one on your ship.

The Assault and Pirate invasion both feature groups that are also the mission completion trigger ~100km from the warp in. A MJD means I don't have to worry about proximity aggro to any other npcs in the mission and I'm right on top of the only NPCs I need to shoot where I can use all of my 1300 dps as they try to slow boat away from me at 0 transversal.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Cohortes Triarii
#12 - 2017-01-23 17:50:16 UTC
Anize Oramara wrote:
I like the Vargur, but then I haven't really had the chance to try any of the others properly. It's one of the two most flexible along with the Golem. I even use a polarized one for blitzing a lv4 mission. Sure it's a 1bill ship to run a single mission but I kind of like the absurdity of it Bear

That said Marauders are not the best lv4 mission runners unless you plan on doing full clear + looting and salvaging or semi-AFK because RL reasons. Also learn to use and love the MJD. MJD is love, MJD is life.



MJD's are people without skills.

A golem is the best all rounder. If you only getting one, or just starting to use them, get a golem and put a proper prop mod on like an mwd.
#13 - 2017-01-23 18:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
Donnachadh wrote:

Anize Oramara wrote:
That said Marauders are not the best lv4 mission runners unless you plan on doing full clear + looting and salvaging or semi-AFK because RL reasons.

Why?
I can see this from a cost versus benefit point of view or if you want maximum efficiency when blitzing. For general mission running where you are doing a mixture of both blitz and full or partial clear the marauders are superior to everything else.

Because full clear is an inferior way to run missions and either the Mach or the Barghest is faster. That is why I specifically mention full clear or semi AFK as those are the only two situations where a marauder is superior. The Machariel is faster in terms of agility, in pocket speed and warp speed, does not need to go into bastion mode for the increase in range and damage application and has more than enough tank for any lv4. The Barghest has superior damage application while moving at max speed (and has similar in pocket agility and speed as a Mach) meaning it has great damage mitigation and can also be fit for very long range and with the missile speed boost it usually doesn't suffer from the normal missile issue of missed volleys.

Quote:

Anize Oramara wrote:
Also learn to use and love the MJD. MJD is love, MJD is life.

I will counter that with these points.
There is only one single mission related situation where the MJD is clearly superior to any other options and that is to escape if you are low on cap and cannot continue to tank the incoming damage for whatever reason. In any and all other situations there is no clear advantage to the MJD.
For those who blitz a MWD is usually superior because the multiple triangulated jumps can take more time than simply using MWD and flying directly towards where you need to be.
For those who prefer to full clear the MJD represents a wasted slot that could be used for more tank or a damage mod or damage application mod. In fact for many that full clear there is simply no need for a prop mod of any kind since you point at the exit and kill while moving along and usually you get there about the same time the last thing in the pocket dies.

If you like the MJD and want to use one, or simply fit it for that rare occasion where it may be useful then by all means put one on your ship.

I blitz Pirate assault with a Polarized Vargur specifically because of the MJD and Bastion allowing the use of Polarized weapons. But more to the general point of why to fit MJD. With the cooldown bonus, you can reach any gate in a mission pocket in 1-2 jumps or just over a minute for two jumps. That means you are in bastion on the out gate in around 70-80 sec after entering the mission / pocket. From what I can remember, if a gate is around 50-60km away from your starting point, it'd take about as long to get to it using a MWD as it would a MJD. Of course each has their own up and down side to how well you'd be applying damage in that first 70 or so seconds since in the one case you'd be perhaps at longer range form the rats and in the other you'd be moving at too high a speed to hit anything. So combined with the advantage of getting to a gate faster (and generally taking less damage before bastion going up) on gates further than 60km away and the GTFO ability of the MJD, it's very much worth it to fit one. Of course this does not preclude one from having a mobile depo and a MWD to switch out with depending on the pocket or heck, specific missions simply swapping them out in station. I even remember making lists of what missions I'd take a MWD or a MJD or even both.

On a side note, full clear + salvage is best done by getting to your destination (be it mission trigger or gate) as quickly as possible so you can deploy a mobile tractor unit to help with looting and salvaging. So you will need a prop mod of some kind and on a marauder with bastion tank you do not exactly need a lot of tanking modules.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3

Brave Collective
#14 - 2017-01-23 18:47:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Takh Meir'noen
I use a paladin, because I'm super lazy. I warp into the pocket, kill everything, and loot/salvage, then move on. I don't even use faction crystals because I don't want to deal with replacing them.

4 tachs, bastion, 3 tractors, mwd/mjd, 2 cap batteries, lar, reactive, eanm, 4x heat sink, ccc & anp, 5 salvage drones, 10 lights (em & kn), and an MTU.

Most of my missions are Blood, Sansha, or Drones. EM/TH is great against all of them. Occasionally I get Angels (Extravaganza) or Guristas (Assault) and it takes me a little longer to kill them. Do I kill fast enough? Well when I blow up the last ship my MTU/tractors are typically still pulling a couple wrecks in... so yeah, I suppose it's fast enough for me. :)

When I'm running L4s with a friend we use Armageddons and watch Geckos tear stuff up.

I think the bottom line is--if you're blitzing you should probably look at a pirate BS, and if you aren't blitzing, then any Marauder you like should be fine. I like Amarr ships. Paladin.
#15 - 2017-01-23 19:05:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Denise Le'Slut
When it comes to marauders i have my skills maxed and flown all four for years in all types of L4 space.

While Golem has the best killing abilities, with missiles you lose salvos and it gets very dull super fast.
Kronos only really shines with blasters(love me some damsel missions), as railguns have a tiny range corridor they work OK in.
Paladin's damage application to everything non-Sansha/Blood/Drone is underwhelming, but that's a laser problem and it has always been one.

So for me it is Vargur hands down because of versatility in damage types, superb tracking and range, capless weapons and agility.

Maybe just get all four and change ships according to mission, if you can fly and afford them.

OT(oh) I changed from full-clear with dual-marauders to cherrypick-blitzing with dual-machs about a year ago, do not miss any income per time (hard to measure tho) and have way more fun than in any of those aforementioned tech2 brick battlesnails.
Really hated the micro-management Lol
#16 - 2017-01-23 22:51:36 UTC
In my post to this similar question in another post about Marauders, I don't count volleys. As I said, my Golem clears the field very fast, I really can't see another clearing any faster.

How much faster than one volley be? Two volleys on a few, and 3 on some BSs.

As I mentioned in my missions go like this: target, target, target, . . . 10 at once, then it's fire, pop, fire, pop, fire, pop, fire, pop. then there's two volleys, must be an elite cruiser, then maybe 3 volleys, a BS. I am sometimes even firing at another target, before the previous one pops.

I'm sorry if other's can't do that there Golem. Maybe you need more skills, more dps, and be able to apply it more.

Hey, lets do like I did on blitzing L3s. Lets actually put up some numbers on mission completion times. C'mon, this will be fun. I'll put up my Golem times against any one. I'm not saying I'll beat everyone, I'm saying the times will be very good and very close.

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

#17 - 2017-01-24 01:07:25 UTC
I'll create a new post, lay down some guide lines, and let the results speak for themselves. Just how fast can a L4 room be cleared? That's the bottom line isn't it.

I don't want to take away from the OP's post, but that really wouldn't be bad.

Any takers?

-Kirst

Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.

#18 - 2017-01-24 03:07:28 UTC
OP

Wargur will do just fine

Ion

Wouldn't mind to see some completion times.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard

#19 - 2017-01-24 04:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=508972&find=unread

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.

#20 - 2017-01-24 15:34:19 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
The Assault and Pirate invasion both feature groups that are also the mission completion trigger ~100km from the warp in. A MJD means I don't have to worry about proximity aggro to any other npcs in the mission and I'm right on top of the only NPCs I need to shoot where I can use all of my 1300 dps as they try to slow boat away from me at 0 transversal.

Your comment proves nothing, it is simply a statement of your personal preferences. ALL level 4 mission in the pool can be completed without using any form of prop mod or the MJD, since they can be completed without those modules their use is not required and that gets back to my comment. The only place where the MJD is clearly superior to any other option and in fact could even remotely be considered a requirement is it's use as an escape tool because nothing else in the game can do what the MJD can do when you need to escape. As far as that close in agro it has never been a problem the additional tank afforded by using the slot for a 4th tnak mod instead of a MJD means that I simply ignore that damage and let my tank take care of it while I shoot at the stuff out there in the next county.

Anize Oramara wrote:
On a side note, full clear + salvage is best done by getting to your destination (be it mission trigger or gate) as quickly as possible so you can deploy a mobile tractor unit to help with looting and salvaging. So you will need a prop mod of some kind and on a marauder with bastion tank you do not exactly need a lot of tanking modules.

Simply another personal preference stated as if it was a scientifically provable fact.
I tired this craptastic way of running missions when the MTU were first released and discovered that it slows the process significantly. It is better to use that slot for tank and kill while you move from warp in to exit usually arriving at the exit at the same time you finish killing it all. With the pocket dead you can bring in a noctis to clean up while the combat character moves on to the next pocket or even the next mission. Yes I know this actually requires one to think and actually invest some effort which seems to be an issue for many who run missions but it is significantly faster than your method.

And you are right, my way is not better if you do not have the second account, or the characters on that account do not have the proper skills and that brings me back to a point I keep making in these mission topics. There never has been and never will be a single "best" ship, or a single "best" method for running missions because there are to many variables from personal preferences / expectations, character skills to the NPC you most often face and even the amount of ISK you can or you are willing to spend on your mission ship / ships.
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